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ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

VLT Revenues

Community/Site Breakdown

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey).

Last Monday, we tabled information in this Chamber indicating lottery revenue was broken down community by community, machine by machine, Madam Speaker.

In reading a letter we tabled in the Chamber from a citizen dealing with the Ombudsman on Friday, the Ombudsman indicates that the Lotteries Corporation on July 10, on August 17, on August 30, on August 31, on September 3, and on September 12 indicated no such records were kept of revenues community by community in terms of lottery revenue.

I would like to ask the acting Premier, was this refusal to produce this information that was readily available since 1992 on the instructions of the government or was that a decision the Lotteries Corporation made on their own?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, my understanding is the concerns around the release of information site by site pertaining to The Freedom of Information Act and third-party confidentiality and even the information that the member is referring to as being available in late 1994, was a detailed summary on each individual site by site.

One of the reasons for the delay in terms of that information being available was the changing of the computer software to put in place a mechanism that allowed the Lotteries Corporation to protect that third-party confidentiality and thereby releasing information on communities with four sites or more.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, I wonder if the Minister responsible for Lotteries has read the letter from the Ombudsman to the government. It states that the corporation said that the information did not exist. There was a breakdown between the city and rural communities but the information did not exist. They said so on seven occasions to the Ombudsman, an independent sovereign body of this Legislature.

I would like to ask the minister, how can he condone a CEO and a corporation that says on seven occasions the information does not exist, when the Ombudsman only took one meeting with one computer official to find out that the information not only did exist but it has existed since 1992?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, yes, I have read the letter and the letter does indicate that the access officer for the corporation did advise that she had not been aware that this record could be produced.

As I have indicated, the record that was being referred to was a record that was detailed information on site by site that did not provide for protection for third-party confidentiality. The Ombudsman throughout his letter refers to the release of information subject to that condition, and ultimately that was the basis on which the information was released.

Gaming Commission

Additional Hearings

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, the Premier (Mr. Filmon), in statements he made on Friday and to the public on Saturday, admitted that they did withhold the information from the November 30 meeting of cabinet where cabinet of course was given all this information that was denied to the Ombudsman on seven occasions prior.

Since that information has been released after the election and after the three public hearings that have already taken place in rural Manitoba, would the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) order the Desjardins committee to have public hearings in Brandon, Dauphin and Thompson in light of the fact that the president of the UMM has now stated that they want to have this information before the public hearings? They were denied that opportunity by this government that withheld the information. Would he now have those committees proceed to those communities so information will be fully available to the people to discuss the issues at those hearings?

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Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition makes a great to-do about this information being available in November of 1994. I want to point out to him that if he looks at the information that was released last week on revenue on a per-community basis, there were two additional things that had to be done.

One I have already explained to him. One aspect of it was to protect the third-party confidentiality that is recognized within The Freedom of Information Act, that is agreed to by the Ombudsman, that is standard format for organizations like Statistics Canada.

The second element of funding that also had to be broken down that was not available at the end of November 1994 was all of the other lottery revenue on a per-community basis from the sale of lottery tickets, from the sale of break-opens and all of the other sources that provides a second line of revenue. That was additional information that had to be put in place subsequent to November 1994.

As we have indicated in this House, the choice of public hearings, the choice of soliciting input from Manitobans is a choice being made by the steering committee, by the commission chaired by Mr. Larry Desjardins. There is absolutely nothing precluding them from having more public hearings either in Winnipeg or outside of Winnipeg. I think, based on both the hearings they have had to date, based on additional information they have received, based on this information just being received, I am sure that is a matter they will be considering, whether or not they should be holding more public hearings over the next few months.

VLT Revenues

Deficit Reduction

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the Minister responsible for the Manitoba Lotteries Corporation.

On Thursday, Manitobans received a partial picture of how little money was being returned to many rural communities compared to how much was being drained out.

My question to the minister is simply this: Has he contacted officials in communities like Gimli, Dauphin and The Pas to explain why they were paying so much more for deficit reduction than rural communities in cabinet ministers' ridings?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, I am not surprised to receive that question because we know the NDP opposes deficit reduction and believes in running deficits. That is clear from their record during the 1980s.

As I responded to a similar question late last week from the member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton), there are two elements in this chart that show where lottery funds are utilized. One is programs, and those programs have two parts to them. One is direct programs that apply for individual communities, programs like Community Places, programs like the Rural Economic Development Initiative, and so on; the other is province-wide programs that are allocated on a per capita basis.

In any given year, we are going to get a wide range of applications from different communities. We are going to get some communities very aggressive in terms of applying for REDI and for Community Places. We are going to have other communities, because they do not have a project, because they do not have a business initiative, they do not apply. I mean, to me that makes sense.

I know the NDP probably believe that you apply for anything if there is government available. Fortunately, most Manitobans are responsible. They only apply when they need the money and that is the case with communities in Manitoba.

Gaming Commission

Additional Hearings

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, will the minister, since he chose to withhold this information, encourage the lottery review committee to hold more hearings in rural Manitoba now that the Premier (Mr. Filmon) has finally released some of the data that was withheld since last November?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Well, Madam Speaker, I take offence to the preamble. He suggested I chose to withhold this information, and he knows full well--and I answered in this House last week--I received this information last week, and it was turned around within a couple days and released to the public and here to this Chamber.

I have already outlined for this House, in response to a question from the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer), why there were some time delays in terms of some of the information. As I responded to a similar question, the committee chaired by Mr. Desjardins has broad representation from individuals across our province, people representing all kinds of different organizations in our community. They have heard the comments from people like the past president of the Union of Manitoba Municipalities. I am sure they will take them seriously.

At the end of the day, they are the ones who will decide if there are more public hearings. They are also soliciting input through written submissions and so on, and they take that very seriously, Madam Speaker. They will make the decision whether or not they should have more public hearings.

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Manitoba Lotteries Corporation

Standing Committee Review

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): When is this minister prepared to schedule a legislative committee meeting to review the annual report of the Lotteries Corporation, something this government did not do last year and, in fact, has not occurred in two years?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, the calling of committees is usually something that is discussed between House leaders. As the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) knows, there are all kinds of information on gaming revenue and lotteries if members are inclined to be interested--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Minister of Finance, to quickly complete his response.

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, there are all kinds of information on gaming and lotteries. There is the information in the Public Accounts, which the Leader of the Opposition finally looked at late last week. There is information in the annual reports of the Lotteries Corporation. There is information produced by the Manitoba Lotteries Corporation in terms of the detailed analysis they produced last year, and the Auditor herself refers to the quality of the Lotteries Corporation's information as being extremely reliable.

I want to remind these members, we are the only provincial government in all of Canada that returns 10 percent unconditionally to municipalities and 25 percent to municipalities for economic development here in our province.

Health Care System

Child Psychiatric Services

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, before the election, after pressure from parents, nurses, doctors and patients, the government opened an eight-bed unit for psychiatric children. When the government said that beds would close right after the election, the minister assured this House that no children would be denied services.

Within the last week, Madam Speaker, we have brought to the attention of the minister three separate occasions when children have been denied a psychiatric bed and have been put on a waiting list because this unit is closing.

My question to the minister: Will the minister do what he said and mean what he said and guarantee that the eight-bed unit will stay open until there are no more waiting lists for children to get psychiatric services?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): I resent the reference to the election, Madam Speaker, in the question. By the honourable member's own admission, the passage of time has meant that those beds have not been reclosed immediately following the election, as the honourable member had suggested.

Indeed, the reason for them being open as long as they have been open is that the care needs need to be the first priority. They remain the first priority, and that need will be paramount in the planning for acute psychiatric care for children and adolescents in Manitoba.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, will the minister live up to his promise that he made in this House on May 25 and which he has again made today, that no child will be denied a psychiatric bed by virtue of having to be put on a waiting list? Will he guarantee that today?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, the care needs of children with psychiatric problems are very important to the department and to this government and, incidentally, to all of the people we work with in the health care system.

Indeed, there is a variety of services available now to young people, adolescents and children that were never made available prior to the advent of the changes that we have brought about in recent years.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, the minister avoids the answer.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would remind the honourable member for Kildonan this is not a time for postamble, and it is not a time for debate.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, will the minister, who is refusing to answer the question, please guarantee today that we will not have to keep bringing to this House child after child after child who has been denied a psychiatric bed, while the minister stands up and tries to defend his record and gives us past history that does not apply? Will he guarantee the beds will remain open?

Mr. McCrae: Despite the theatrics of the honourable member for Kildonan, Madam Speaker--

Point of Order

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, on a point of order, I believe the minister is imputing motive. If the minister spent the weekend on the phone, like I did, dealing with parents, perhaps he would understand the situation.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Kildonan does not have a point of order, but I would remind the honourable Minister of Health that his answer should be short, to the point and should not provoke debate.

* * *

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, I spend most of my time attempting not to provoke debate.

This is a very, very important matter. The issue of health care and health delivery services in our province is of the utmost importance. The people of Manitoba told us so in the recent election campaign, so, indeed, I take my job very, very seriously.

I do not believe that engaging in theatrics in any way helps any children or anybody else in this province. Engaging in a useful dialogue and useful planning processes with people who deliver health care services is the right way to go, and that is the way we are doing it.

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Pediatric Cardiac Care Program

Child Death Inquest Committee

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

In the minister's departmental annual report for the year 1992-1993, the government highlights the establishment of a child death inquest review committee, which this report says has been established under the chair of the Chief Medical Examiner to review every, I cite every, child death in Manitoba. This is a multidisciplinary group which brings different professional perspectives to bear on these tragic events.

My question to the minister is, would she now explain why this committee has therefore failed to review not just one, not just two, not three, but 11 of the 12 infant cardiac surgery deaths at the Health Sciences Centre in 1994?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): We covered this issue in the Estimates of the Department of Justice when the Chief Medical Examiner was here in the Chamber. The Chief Medical Examiner explained the process of the child death committee. He also explained that committee did review deaths in which there was any concern, but where deaths were of a well-known cause and not unexpected--I believe at that time he gave the answer, such as leukemia--those deaths are not then reviewed by the child death committee.

In the issue of the child deaths which will be the subject of an inquest, he did speak about them occurring and as having not been unexpected. It was when the issue was then one of volume that concern was raised.

Inquest

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Would the minister now explain to Manitobans and the affected families how they can have confidence in an inquest into the infant deaths, given serious concerns about the conduct of her department that was to review every infant death, when all four staff of the inquest who determine what evidence is relevant, which is not, and which compiled that information, are from her own department including two from the Chief Medical Examiner's office?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): This is an issue, again, which we discussed fully during the Estimates of the Department of Justice which I believe I have also answered in Question Period on numerous occasions. The inquest will be conducted by Associate Chief Judge Sinclair. It will be fact-finding in nature. We have assigned Crown attorneys who will assist the judge in fact-finding. This is the normal course of the process of inquest.

We believe, Madam Speaker, that certainly we on this side of the House have confidence in the judge who will be conducting the inquest to make sure the fact-finding will be completed in a way that will be satisfactory.

Independent Inquiry

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Would the minister not finally agree, after looking more and more at this, that an inquest is hardly the way to serve the interests of justice in this province and that an independent inquiry is the only way to go?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Again, we have been over the process several times. It has been discussed at length with the member for St. Johns and also publicly. There has been an inquest called. The inquest will be conducted by Associate Chief Judge Sinclair. The purpose of the inquest is fact-finding. We have confidence that the fact-finding will in fact exist. Members from the other side have always chosen to skip over a process which is in place. We on this side of the House support the process and certainly the Department of Justice is looking to support the process of the inquest.

St. Germain-Vermette

Secession

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): My question is for the Minister of Urban Affairs (Mr. Reimer).

It was not that long ago when we saw Headingley secede from the city of Winnipeg. Today we hear about St. Germain and Vermette and the possibility of them seceding from the city of Winnipeg. Madam Speaker, this government is--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Inkster, to pose his question.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, does the Minister of Urban Affairs believe that his department has a role to play in terms of keeping the city of Winnipeg together, and if so, what is the province's role?--because they have failed in terms of trying to address the needs of the city of Winnipeg.

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Urban Affairs): The member is referring to the St. Germain-Vermette study that was initiated a while ago, and I can tell him that the procedures that are being initiated in that study are identical to the ones that were in Headingley in which a consulting team was hired, a steering committee of stakeholders established. The consultants held a town hall meeting on the outside of the study. Through the consultations, community input was factored into the study.

The study took place, the consultants held a town hall meeting to report the findings before the report was finalized and submitted to the minister. To date, I have not received that report.

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Mr. Lamoureux: To the Minister of Urban Affairs: What steps is this government taking to ensure that Winnipeg stays together. As the one minister heckled from his seat, what is next? St. Vital, Transcona, what areas? What action is this government prepared to--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mr. Reimer: One the things that is becoming very, very prevalent in administrations all across Canada right now is the fact that people, the taxpayers are getting tired of the in-your-face type of government and the type of administrations that are coming forth.

The fact that people have chosen to live outside of Winnipeg is because of the fact that they feel there is a social quality. They may be involved with a certain type of recreation that they are looking for. This administration is not going to put up barriers and put up an invocation of where people live and where people cannot live. People have the choice and it is up to them where they want to live.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, the minister makes reference to choice.

My question to the minister is: The individuals that we are talking about live in the city of Winnipeg; they want to secede from Winnipeg. What is this government doing to ensure that the City of Winnipeg is able to ensure that it does not break up? This government does have a role to play with respect to property tax, for example. Will this minister not go to the table with City Hall and try to resolve this problem once and for all before Winnipeg no longer exists?

Mr. Reimer: Madam Speaker, we are talking about a city administration that has responsibility for the fact that they have been elected by the individuals. They have a voice within the City Council. We have people within that are in the various constituencies that represent the various councillors. They have the ability to access their councillors, to give them their concerns, to voice their concerns whether they feel the taxes are justified, whether they are improving with the service, whether the service is available for them.

The people within the city of Winnipeg have the ability to access their administrators to force--or to talk to them about the direction that they are looking at.

Madam Speaker, for the government and the Province of Manitoba to have the heavy hand of government on everything that the City of Winnipeg does or the rural municipalities is totally irrelevant. People are elected in the municipalities to make the decisions. The people are elected within the city of Winnipeg to make the decisions, and they have to look at it in a very conscientious manner as to which direction they want to take.

Forest Fires

Leaf Rapids

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Natural Resources.

The loss of 16 or 17 trailers, a church, an automotive repair shop and at least one house along with other property at Leaf Rapids just two days after residents returned home only to be evacuated again is tragic. I want to once again commend the dedication of the hundreds of firefighters along with volunteers who are clearly doing heroic work in a most difficult situation.

Regrettably, however, there has been major damage done, and I want to ask the minister if he has an update on how close the fire is to the town centre of Leaf Rapids and how serious is a threat to the town itself.

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, I would like to inform members of the House that at the present time there is a total of 134 fires burning in Manitoba, and of those 57 are under control, 22 are out of control and 55 have limited or no action. The fire at Leaf Rapids is one of the ones that we consider out of control.

At the time when the decision was made, it was made together with people from my colleagues' departments, as well, in the best interests of the people that they could return at that time. What happened is the environment played a mean trick on us. The winds increased, came in from the wrong direction. The fire moved into the community. We had five water bombers and over a hundred people basically trying to save the community, and they have done a good job. The situation is under control at the present time, but we have no assurances as to what the weather conditions will do.

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Leaf Rapids--Disaster Assistance

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Can the minister responsible for the Disaster Assistance Board tell the House the status of financial assistance and emergency relief for residents forced out of their homes for the second time in less than a week?

Hon. Brian Pallister (Minister of Government Services): Madam Speaker, I thank the member for the question.

There are approximately 1,100 residents of Leaf Rapids evacuated currently to Lynn Lake, and they are being housed in a variety of ways in private accommodation. The friendship centre is helping there, I understand, as well. Some are camping.

I believe I speak for all members of this House in expressing our great sympathy and compassion to all of those who have been forced once again from their home community and especially those who have had property damage as a consequence of this fire.

Certainly our department is working co-operatively with local officials in doing everything in our power to assist those people. I can tell members of the House that we have already sent two critical incident stress debriefing teams to the community to work with those who have been forced to deal with a situation that is almost, I am sure for us here, unimaginable--a very difficult situation for those people, and we will continue to assist in every possible way.

Mr. Jennissen: My final supplementary question to the same minister: Since up to this point nearly 20 families have lost their homes in Leaf Rapids, can the minister tell us what immediate day-to-day assistance these families can expect and when they can expect that assistance?

Mr. Pallister: Madam Speaker, assistance can take various forms, and we will certainly take the forms that are most appropriate, given the circumstances of those evacuees.

To tell the member, I guess, generally, the types of assistance that we have been offering are not an exhaustive list, but certainly assisting in providing food for those folks who are away from home, arranging accommodation whenever possible, assisting with gas vouchers and so on to help them cover the costs of immediate evacuation. There are, in certain circumstances as they are raised, monies made available for daily allowances when people are without funds because of the lack of notice, when they were forced from their homes on short, short notice.

I guess the important thing for all of us to remember is that in making these decisions, they are very difficult decisions. They are made by people in the heat of a very, very difficult environment. Those decisions, in retrospect, may not be perfect decisions, but they are the right decisions at the time with the known factors that present themselves.

Other factors may arise such as has happened this past weekend that are unknown, that are certainly beyond our control, and the difficulty, of course, for all those folks who make those decisions is that they will be criticized in hindsight. I think it is important for all of us to be supportive of those decisions as best we can.

Winnipeg Jets/Arena

Endowment Fund

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, the Spirit of Manitoba is now attempting to persuade the City of Winnipeg to use its status under the tax act to receive and administer the Jets losses endowment fund from the arena-Jets deal.

Madam Speaker, could the acting Premier tell the House whether or not the government has been briefed on this latest twist in this charitable status tax game?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, I think this is a case of not necessarily believing everything you read.

If the member is going by a report in one of the papers today, my understanding is there currently is no specific request before the City of Winnipeg. There is a meeting taking place this afternoon. We will have to wait and see what requests, if any, come out of that meeting, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, is this government, as co-owner and partner of the arena facility, prepared to allow the city to operate the losses endowment fund as proposed by the Spirit, thereby doing what the province was apparently unwilling to do? Are you prepared to let them do this?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, if those discussions take place, they will take place between the Spirit and the City of Winnipeg, which is another level of government, and the City of Winnipeg will make decisions around issues that affect their areas of jurisdiction, plain and simple.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, is the minister then saying that the province is no longer a partner in this deal and is prepared to countenance anything the City of Winnipeg does? It does not matter because they are no longer involved.

Mr. Stefanson: I did not say that at all, Madam Speaker.

This member seems to think that we govern at all levels. I mean, he asks me questions about decisions of the federal government, as though we make decisions on behalf of the federal government. He expects us to make decisions on behalf of the City of Winnipeg. He seems to think that we are the government at the federal level, the provincial level, the municipal level, the school trustee level. He should take some time to realize there are different levels of government with different areas of responsibility.

Spirit is dealing--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I am experiencing great difficulty in hearing the minister's response.

The honourable Minister of Finance, to quickly complete his response.

Mr. Stefanson: Very quickly, Madam Speaker, Spirit is dealing with different levels of government, with areas of responsibility that fall within their jurisdiction.

They are having discussions with the City of Winnipeg around areas that fall within their jurisdiction. They are entitled to do that, I think, Madam Speaker. We are not going to stand in their way to have kinds of discussions with any level of government about areas that fall under their responsibility.

Clean Environment Commission

Solid Waste Management Hearings

Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington): Madam Speaker, the provincial government has announced that the Clean Environment Commission will conduct a public review of the major issues related to solid waste management in the capital region this August. The Minister of Environment stated in his press release that, I quote, "In developing a solid waste plan for the Capital Region, a wide net must be cast . . . ."

I would like to ask the Minister of Environment, if this is truly the case, why the public review on this vital issue to so many Manitobans is being held in mid-August.

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): Madam Speaker, first of all, this was an additional requirement that we placed on this process in order to acquire input from not only residents of the city of Winnipeg but from surrounding areas.

The member should be aware that there are also other pressures timing-wise. Louisiana-Pacific is appearing before the commission, probably in September, on forest licensing. There are limitations on availability of time. It seemed to me reasonable and certainly if there are those who are unable to appear at a precise time, the commission will be able to receive written information. But, Madam Speaker, I do not anticipate there will be an enormous difficulty with people being able to make themselves available for at least one day during that period.

Ms. Barrett: Madam Speaker, given that the City of Winnipeg has actually written to the Minister of Environment requesting a delay into September or October, not just to make the presentation but also to prepare for the presentation, why will the minister not ask the Clean Environment Commission or instruct the Clean Environment Commission to delay the hearings so that the City of Winnipeg and other partners in the capital region will have an opportunity to prepare the reports and their recommendations for this vital service?

Mr. Cummings: Madam Speaker, I have had countless meetings with the City of Winnipeg, BFI and others around this issue. We have discussed the possibility of this type of a hearing a number of times. I suppose this demonstrates that one should always have these matters put in writing as opposed to accepting the statements that are made at meetings from time to time, but it is only now that the city has made me aware that they are concerned about the timing. Previously, it was my understanding that both the city and BFI were anxious to get into this process and get the information on the table. We want to get on with it, frankly.

Ms. Barrett: I am wondering what the minister and the government has to hide in not delaying for a brief time so that the people who are going to be affected by the decisions made by the Clean Environment Commission will have adequate time to prepare. Is that not what the government wants, to get the proper information on the record?

Mr. Cummings: Absolutely, and we have been working on this for six months. It is time to get the job done.

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Public Housing

Maintenance/Upgrading Budget

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Madam Speaker, the seriousness of maintaining public housing has been highlighted by the recent reports of yet another child falling through improperly maintained windows and screens. The former Minister of Housing said most of this housing was built in the '70s and has now reached the point where significant ongoing maintenance is required. As our housing ages, the cost of modernization and improvement also mounts.

I want to ask the Minister of Housing currently if the budget for maintenance in the department is keeping up with this increased demand for modernization and maintenance.

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Urban Affairs): The ongoing cost, as mentioned by the member for Radisson, regarding housing is of an ongoing nature in the sense of budget priorities and the direction of maintenance in it. The member is right by stating that there is a concern as to which way and where the priorities are going with housing and the maintenance. I have been in contact with the department in trying to formulate areas of direction and to get a better understanding of the department since taking it on.

In regard to the incident she alluded to just recently, I have requested a full report on the incident regarding the young child.

Ms. Cerilli: Given that in the '92-93 budget the Minister for Housing said there was $15 million for modernization and maintenance for Manitoba Housing Authority properties, can the minister tell us the amount in the budget for this year? Is it $13.5 million as I have read in this year's Estimates?

Mr. Reimer: I believe that a lot of the questions the member for Radisson will be bringing forth right now have an excellent chance of fuller participation and further discussion in Estimates which are coming up, and the details at that time we can get into on an easier basis.

Ms. Cerilli: Given the seriousness of this issue, would the minister answer now that the Estimates show the staffing for operations management has gone from 132 staff in '92 to 113 for '96? Does this apply to the Housing Authority maintenance staff, and has the staff available for onsite maintenance--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mr. Reimer: Madam Speaker, one of the areas that the member is referring to is the efficiencies involved with the staff and if the staff are becoming more efficient in their operations, the fact that they are looking at the possibility of eliminating duplication. All these things would be reflected in a different manner of evaluation regarding the budget.

Canada-U.S. Grain Commission

Canadian Wheat Board

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, the preliminary report on the U.S.-Canada joint commission is causing great concern for farm organizations, concern about the Wheat Board, concern about the quality of our grain and concerns about the impact, if implemented, this will have on the farming community. We have heard the concerns expressed by the farm community, but we have not heard from this government.

When is this government going to make a public statement on their views of the recommendations put out by the U.S.-Canadian joint commission?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, I suppose I could suggest to the honourable member that inasmuch as the Canadian Wheat Board is very much a federal institution, created by federal law under federal jurisdiction, I could avoid answering that question, but the issue is extremely important.

I am sure that the recommendations contained and submitted by the five Canadian commissioners, the five American commissioners will be given very serious study by both governments. None of the recommendations are binding.

I remind the honourable member that just last Friday our own federal Minister of Agriculture, the Honourable Mr. Goodale, announced the long-awaited Canadian review of the operation of the Canadian Wheat Board.

I can assure her of one thing: If there are any changes to be made to the Canadian Wheat Board, they will be made by Canadians and not by anybody else.

Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, in light of the fact that Canada is known around the world for its high standard of grain, does the minister share the concerns expressed by farmers that we run the risk of losing control of the quality of our grain if the recommendation to open up the borders to allow U.S. grain into Canada is implemented? Does he share the concern of farmers on that issue?

Mr. Enns: Madam Speaker, the honourable member has not read all of the report, the fine print, because that is specifically something that the American experts on that panel acknowledge. We do enjoy that reputation for quality grain, and one that we are not about to give up or allow to be changed. There have been suggestions about how, in the interests of full and free bilateral trade movement, American grain can move into the Canadian market without jeopardizing that quality. These are precisely the kinds of things that in my opinion have to be worked out.

Let me make it very clear that it is very much in our interests to be able to move substantial quantities of our grain into their market, and being the two biggest trading partners in the world, Madam Speaker, it behooves us that we take the time to talk about this issue and not simply to worry about any suggestions of change or reformation.

Agriculture, not unlike health, not unlike education is not above change and reform.

Madam Speaker: Order please. The time for Oral Questions has expired.

Speaker's Ruling

Madam Speaker: I have a ruling for the House.

I am returning to the House with a ruling on a point of order raised on June 15, 1995, by the honourable member for Wolseley (Ms. Friesen). She asked that the Minister of Education (Mrs. McIntosh) be directed to withdraw a reference to the member for Wolseley as a "job snob." At the time I undertook to review Hansard and report back to the House if necessary.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. This is a very serious matter.

Having had the opportunity to peruse Hansard, I find that the honourable minister did apologize for the use of the words in question. However, the established and correct procedure for dealing with unparliamentary language is for the member who spoke the words to withdraw in an unqualified way, not just to apologize and put the words on the record a second time.

I do not believe it is appropriate in this Chamber to resort to name-calling. We are all honourable members and should treat each other in a respectful manner. I am therefore calling on the honourable Minister of Education to withdraw unequivocally and without qualification the unparliamentary language used on June 15.

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, I withdraw unequivocally and without qualification any unparliamentary language I used on that occasion in reference to the member for Wolseley.

Madam Speaker: I thank the honourable Minister of Education.

* (1420)

NONPOLITICAL STATEMENTS

Red River Exhibition Association

Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for Riel have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. David Newman (Riel): I wish to recognize, Madam Speaker, the Red River Exhibition Association, a not-for-profit volunteer-based self-sustaining agricultural society. The mandate of the association is to promote industry, commerce, agriculture and tourism and to showcase the achievements of the people of Manitoba.

Yesterday, I had the opportunity to represent the provincial government in the Red River Exhibition parade and to watch the wonder in the children's eyes as we passed and participated all day in the summer show and fair at the Winnipeg Stadium and Arena as well.

From first-hand experience, I can report that the exhibition is reaching out to the community to fill its mandate and to involve organizations through joint-venture partnerships such as the Scottish Heritage Festival, the Valley Agricultural Society and the Manitoba Stampede. What is not widely known is the magnitude of volunteer involvement in this particular association.

I would like to pay tribute to and recognize the over 700 volunteers who participate and make this event and the association a success. They also stage handicraft, photo art, horticultural competitions, the parade and the youth talent competition.

Today they are going to be recognizing Susan and Emmanuel Van De Velde and their family as the Manitoba Farm Family of the Year. This family is from the constituency of the honourable member for Gladstone (Mr. Rocan).

I encourage all honourable members to support and to learn more about this volunteer association and its diverse and valuable endeavours for the benefit of Manitobans. Thank you.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): I would like leave for a nonpolitical statement.

Madam Speaker: Does the honourable Leader of the official opposition have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, I would like to join the member for Riel (Mr. Newman) and all members of this Chamber in paying tribute to the organizers and volunteers of the Red River Ex. It is really a symbol of all the many festivals and events that will be taking place, I suppose, all across this beautiful province of Manitoba over the next number of months, festivals and parades, et cetera, that will take place right throughout our province.

Many of these events, like the Red River Ex, are run by volunteers, volunteers that work tirelessly 12 months a year to provide great hospitality, great kinship and great festivity and heritage in our communities. Whether it is the Peguis Days coming up in July at that community or the Red River Ex or the Threshermen's Reunion in Austin, it is wonderful to have a great province like Manitoba. Even areas that had some controversy in the past like the Folk Festival are now enjoyed by all members of this Chamber.

In coming back to the Red River Ex, the member for Riel noted the volunteerism in that exhibition. I was a volunteer in the past at the Red River Ex. I was one of the hosts for the American bands that came to Manitoba to compete in the marching competition, to compete in the concert competition and also give great flavour, along with the Manitoba bands, to the Red River Ex parade that the member for Riel was in this weekend.

I know that it is not only a tremendous event for us as hosts, but it is also great for Manitoba tourism because many of these young boys and girls are high school students in those bands, go back to their communities in Minnesota, Illinois, North Dakota, South Dakota and Montana and have great stories to tell about the wonderful hospitality of Manitoba and friendly Manitobans here in this community. I have met some in subsequent years that have been to our community first in band competitions and have visited later on as tourists.

I would like to pay tribute to the Farm Family of the Year and I hope that the Red River Ex this year is a safe environment for families to participate in. I know there will be many other exhibitions in many other communities outside of the city of Winnipeg, and it is what we do best, Madam Speaker, people working with people across Manitoba. Thank you.

Scholar-Athlete Awards

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): May I have leave to make a nonpolitical statement?

Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for Radisson have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Ms. Cerilli: Madam Speaker, I rise to acknowledge the extraordinary accomplishments of some very active young Manitobans. These are young people that have won the Scholar-Athlete Awards from the Manitoba High Schools Athletic Association and the Bank of Montreal. These are active people indeed, since to qualify for this award they must not only maintain a greater than 85 percent average in their high school academic career, but they must also participate in a minimum of two interscholastic athletic programs.

The award winners for this year are: Joe Friesen of Kelvin High School, Jean Friesen's son and the MLA for Wolseley; from River East Collegiate, my old alma mater, Stephanie Dyck; Antonio Hermenegildo from R.D. Parker Collegiate in Thompson; and Jaydee Gushuliak from Roseau Valley School in Dominion City.

Now, each of these exemplary students have shown that they can have a balanced life and remain active and participate to a high level in intercollegiate athletics. I think it underlines the importance of these programs for all students across the province, and we should recognize that and rededicate our commitment to ensuring that all students across the province have the opportunity to participate not only in quality education programs but also in quality extracurricular programs, such as sports, arts and cultural activities. Thank you, Madam Speaker.