Mr. Deputy Chairperson (Ben Sveinson): Does the minister have an opening statement?
Hon. Vic Toews (Minister charged with the administration of The Civil Service Act): Yes, I do. I will make a short opening statement.
Mr. Chairman, in introducing the 1995-96 budget Estimates for the Civil Service Commission, I draw attention to the Supplementary Estimates Information which has been provided and contains a good deal of organizational program and financial information to assist the members with the Estimates review now before us.
I say, in the interest of time and in fairness to the member, the critic, I want to make sure that she has an opportunity to raise some questions with me while my staff is here.
So with those very brief opening remarks, Mr. Chairman, I would like to state that as a former career civil servant I am very pleased with my appointment as Minister responsible for The Civil Service Act and would now welcome questions from the members opposite on the Estimates now before us.
Mr. Deputy Chairperson: Does the honourable member of the official opposition, the member for Wellington, have opening comments?
Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington): No, Mr. Chair, I do not have an opening comment, but what I would like to do in the interest of time is ask if at six o'clock the committee would give leave for up to five minutes to complete the Estimates for Civil Service Commission at that point. That would conclude the 240 hours of the Estimates process. So at six o'clock the Chair would, again, canvass the House, but I am just suggesting that we might agree.
Mr. Deputy Chairperson: Is it the will of the committee that at six o'clock the committee not see the clock for a five-minute period to the period of 6:05, till the time that Estimates expires, which is 6:05? [agreed]
Would the minister's staff please join us at the table, and would the minister please introduce his staff.
Mr. Toews: Yes, with me I have Mr. Paul Hart, who is the Civil Service Commissioner; Mr. Gerry Irving, who is the Assistant Deputy Minister of Labour Relations; Mr. Bob Pollock, the acting director of Human Resource Programs; and Mr. Jim Robson, the director of the Administrative Services.
Ms. Barrett: Mr. Chair, again, in the interests of the short amount of time that we have for Civil Service Estimates, I have questions basically in two areas, and I am wondering if it would be possible to just ask those questions without going through the line-by-line.
Mr. Deputy Chairperson: Is it the will of the committee to not resume line-by-line and to allow questions to flow generally? [agreed]
Ms. Barrett: Mr. Chair, in the Supplementary Estimates book, entitled Employee Benefits and Other Payments, it says that the Civil Service Commission pays an amount to the Civil Service Superannuation fund. What I would like to know is, what is the total unfunded liability of the Civil Service Superannuation fund at this point?
Mr. Toews: I would just point out to the member for Wellington that that is not in this specific appropriation.
Ms. Barrett: Mr. Chair, yes, I am well aware that that particular Supplementary Estimates has already passed, but in that book, it does say that the Civil Service Commission pays out an amount to the Civil Service Superannuation fund, so that is why I was asking, hoping that you might have that information.
If it is not available and I understand that the specific item has passed, I would like to ask the minister if it would be possible for him to give me that information and, as well, how much has accumulated this fiscal year or how much is anticipated to have accumulated this fiscal year, and I would like to ask him that in concurrence.
Mr. Toews: I can advise that in respect of the Civil Service Superannuation Plan, the liability for the plan is approximately $33,703,000 for this fiscal year.
Ms. Barrett: Is that the total or is that for just this fiscal year.
Mr. Toews: This fiscal year.
Ms. Barrett: So would it be possible to get for concurrence the total accumulated?
Mr. Toews: Yes.
* (1750)
Ms. Barrett: Thank you. I appreciate that and I know that I was remiss, horribly remiss, in not coming into the Estimates process the 30 seconds I am sure this item had earlier in the day, and I appreciate that.
In my short time left, I would like to ask the minister about the contract, if I may, signed recently with the Manitoba Government Employees' Union, and I know that there continues to be what the government calls planned closure days and what we call Filmon Fridays, and there is also a benefits plan surplus withdrawals component to the contract that authorizes the government to remove surpluses from three plans that the members have for their use to meet the province's fiscal framework. These are two quite major, I will use the word "concessions" that the government employees have acquiesced to. I will not say they have agreed to it, but they have acquiesced.
Can the minister give us and through us the government employees some assurances that there will not be additional requirements of the employees of the government before the end of the contract at the end of March of '96, I believe. Is there job security? Can we be assured that there will be no layoffs, this kind of thing?
The government employees have given and given and given, and I think it is incumbent upon the government to say that we will honour the contract, and we will not lay more people off. We will work within the number of jobs that we have itemized and not make any additional demands on the backs of the government employees.
Mr. Toews: I just want to point out that the union, on behalf of the employees, did, in fact, agree to the terms of the collective agreement. It was entered into, ratified by the employees, and in that sense they have agreed to it. It is a binding collective agreement on the people, both the employer and the union and the employees.
The prior agreement expired on September 30, 1994, and the negotiations went through quite a long period of approximately eight months, and, as the member pointed out, there were certain terms, the main terms basically being that the existing pay rates continue from October 1, '94 to January 29, 1996.
There was a reduced work week, as pointed out by the member, and, as well, there were surplus assets from various plans that will be transferred to the government, and this comes from the plans, the accidental death and dismemberment, the ambulance and hospital semiprivate plan and the group life plan. There will be no change to the benefits provided to the employees in respect of these plans.
Now, the government has entered into it, and there is no indication why the government should not agree to carrying out the terms of that collective agreement. As I understand it, there are certain rights that the government has, notwithstanding the collective agreement, and it would be premature or speculative of me to say that the government will or will not take action about what happens in the future.
Ms. Barrett: Just a brief comment, I think that government employees are, I think, very legitimately concerned about the impacts that the balanced budget legislation, should it pass in its present form later this session, might have on the staffing components of the government.
It is all very well for the ministers to lose a portion of their ministerial salaries, and I think that is not very clear to many of the public, that it is the ministerial salary, not their basic MLA salary that is at risk, but government employees also have an enormous risk in dealing with the potential fallout of not only the balanced budget legislation, but also decisions that have been made by this government in the past few months, dealing, No. 1, with the public funds that are going to be expended if the new arena and the Jets deals go through.
I think these are issues that the members are concerned about and need some assurances on the part of the minister that they will not be asked to give more.
Mr. Toews: It is my understanding that that legislation would not come into effect until the next fiscal year, so it would not have any impact in respect of this collective agreement which expires on March 29 of 1996.
I do wish to acknowledge on behalf of the government and certainly myself, personally, that the employees have made certain sacrifices. I know we have a very efficient, hardworking civil service. They are well appreciated. I know that when I was a civil servant, I was well appreciated by the government, and I certainly do not want to underestimate the dedication and the contribution that these people make to the better quality of life here in Manitoba.
I would note that because of the concessions that the employees have made, certainly in the last round of negotiations, I would estimate that somewhere in the range of 500 jobs were saved, of their own jobs, and in that sense there is certainly a sense of sacrifice for their fellow workers, as well as other Manitobans, in terms of dealing with the fiscal issues that we all face as Manitobans. This government does not underestimate and undervalue the contribution the civil service has made in that respect.
Ms. Barrett: Mr. Chair, I notice in the collective agreement that the reduced workweek program, Filmon Fridays, will be in the memorandum, having an expiry date of March 31, '96, when the collective agreement expires. Is there any indication at this point that the Filmon Fridays will continue on for the next fiscal year? Certainly you and the departments must be beginning to work on their preliminary work on the next year's budget, and is this being factored in?
Mr. Toews: If my colleague is referring to the reduced workweek days, that would obviously be the subject of negotiations for the next round.
Ms. Barrett: Yes, I understand that, Mr. Minister, but let us be honest here--not that you are not being honest, I am sorry--let us be realistic here. These Estimates books were produced long before the collective agreement was put in place. Obviously, you make some assumptions when you are budgeting, and I am wondering if one of the assumptions for the next fiscal year beginning April 1, 1996 is the inclusion of a continuation of Filmon Fridays.
Mr. Toews: All I can say is that those decisions will be taken when the next round of budget planning takes place, and we will see what happens at that point. To do otherwise would be only to speculate and mislead, and I certainly do not wish to mislead the member because of the very forthright way she has been dealing with me.
Ms. Barrett: Please, I know we are in trouble here as far as time, but I would like to ask some questions if I have time in concurrence tomorrow on the human resource programs branch activities.
Mr. Toews: That is fine.
Mr. Deputy Chairperson: Item 1. Civil Service Commission (a) Executive Office (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $229,800--pass; (2) Other Expenditures $57,600--pass.
(b) Administrative Services (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $606,300--pass; (2) Other Expenditures $397,500--pass.
(c) Human Resource Management Services (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1,033,600--pass; (2) Other Expenditures $636,200--pass.
(d) Labour Relations Services (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1,134,800--pass; (2) Other Expenditures $278,200--pass.
(e) French Language Services Secretariat (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $174,100--pass; (2) Other Expenditures $21,800--pass.
(f) Organization and Staff Development Agency--pass.
Resolution 17.1. RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $4,569,900 for Civil Service Commission, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 1996.
This concludes our consideration of the Estimates in this section of the Committee of Supply.
I would like to thank the ministers, critics and MLAs for their co-operation during this committee process.
This section of the Committee of Supply will now recess and reconvene tomorrow (Thursday) at 10 a.m. in the Chamber with the other sections of Supply.