ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

Pharmacare

G-CSF Coverage

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the Premier.

Madam Speaker, we have been concerned for some time now about the cuts that the government has trickled into our institutions after the election dealing with health care. We are very concerned about a decision we have heard that has been made by the government to eliminate, effective September 4, the use of a drug called G-CSF, a drug that is used for the treatment of children that have cancer, a drug that is used for children that are diagnosed with cancer, and a drug that is considered to be very, very important for the families and for those children that need that treatment.

I would like to ask the Premier whether he will reverse the decision of reducing this drug to kids that need it, that have unfortunately been diagnosed with cancer, after September 4.

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): As the honourable Leader of the Opposition knows, the government of which he was part and the government of which I am part receives advice from the Drug Standards and Therapeutics Committee, a committee composed of pharmacists and doctors, with respect to the drugs that are covered under our programs.

I will take specific notice of the particular drug the honourable member is talking about, but the advice we get is advice based on health care outcomes and the economics of the various drugs that are listed, and as I say, I will bring back further information for the honourable member.

Mr. Doer: I would like to table a newsletter called Jeffrey's Folks. It is a newsletter sponsored by families that are touched by childhood cancer that indicates specifically that the government is reducing this drug effective September 4.

Madam Speaker, I do not believe the government and the minister and the Premier have to review this decision. How can we justify to families and children that one child sitting on a bench needing cancer treatment before September 4 would receive support from their own provincial government for the provision of this drug, and after September 4--because allegedly the program has run out of money, this after we have looked at the first quarter report where it has an $8-million shortfall, or surplus in the Department of Health. How can we possibly say we are going to review this?

Can the minister and the Premier take a lead position today and say that decision is off, and they will provide that drug to kids that are diagnosed with cancer, notwithstanding the date of September 4? It is needed, it is preventative, it is absolutely essential, and please will the government take a leadership role and cancel that decision?

Mr. McCrae: As I said, Madam Speaker, I certainly will look into the particular drug the honourable member is talking about and review the situation.

The honourable member should be under no illusion; these decisions are not driven by some bottom line that the honourable member might like to suggest. It has nothing to do with--you need only look at the budget for our drug assistance programs to know that this government has been very, very committed to providing whatever assistance we possibly can, and a decision like this has nothing to do with the motivation attributed to it by the honourable member whatsoever.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, this drug is being cut by this government and this Health department for those children.

If you read the newsletter--and the minister has received letters on this issue before and we know that. There are letters written to this minister. He should be aware. This government should be aware of what is going on. This drug is a preventative drug which reduces the number of admissions and the length of stay in readmissions by strengthening the white cell count and allowing chemo treatment to proceed more quickly.

I cannot understand a government that has funds available for every pet priority of the Conservative Party, that has money available, as we have identified all week for the Winnipeg Jets hockey team through the infrastructure program, but cannot find it in their soul, cannot find it in their heart and cannot find it in their minds to make sure that kids that are diagnosed with cancer get the proper treatment and get the drugs, Madam Speaker, that will help them out in this very, very difficult situation.

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Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, I have heard what the honourable Leader of the Opposition has had to say and I have listened very seriously and have made certain undertakings.

I remind the honourable member that year over year, I can tell him that far more new drugs are brought under the assisted category than are ever delisted, and those that are delisted are delisted as a result of the advice we get from the Drug Standards and Therapeutics Committee which is made up of the experts in the field.

So the honourable member would pretend that this program is operated differently today from the days when he sat around the cabinet table. Such is not the case.

Manitoba Lotteries Corporation

Report Costs

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Madam Speaker, this morning we had the first committee hearings on Manitoba Lotteries in more than two years. We finally got the detailed information on a number of issues including the delay of the release of VLT revenues, and also the reports that we had requested copies of were released this morning by KPMG and Ernst & Young.

I would like to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon), in light of the fact that today at committee his Minister responsible for Lotteries indicated the Ernst & Young report cost $43,000 and that the KPMG study cost $75,000, a grand total of $118,000, whether the Premier views it as acceptable that the Lotteries Foundation has spent that amount of money to go and conduct a study into a report done by Dr. Cyrenne, the only objective report that has been done in Manitoba, that just happened to appear in the Free Press during the election. Is that an acceptable use of public money to spend $118,000 on two consultants' reports to attack the only independent study that has been done in Manitoba?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, the member for Thompson is picking up where he left off this morning in committee by not listening to the answers that are being provided.

If he goes to page 9 of the KPMG report, he will see that there are four study objectives. The first one is to respond to the Crown Corporations Council's recommendation that an independent and objective study be conducted of the economic impact of gaming in Manitoba. The second is to provide the Manitoba Lottery Policy Review Committee with current and objective information.

Number 3 is to assess and summarize quantitative and qualitative information concerning economic benefits and costs of gaming in Manitoba, and four is to critically review the recent report that he refers to by Philippe Cyrenne.

There were four objectives. On the one hand, they call for more information, more independent assessment, more information of the economic impact. Here you have an international accounting firm, has done an economic analysis on behalf of the Manitoba Lotteries Corporation. We have provided that report to all members here in the House, or made it available to all members here in the House, and it is the kind of information that the Lotteries Corporation will require as it makes future decisions affecting gaming here in Manitoba, Madam Speaker.

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Mr. Ashton: Madam Speaker, my question is for the Premier, once again.

I would like to ask the Premier whether he considers it acceptable that this amount of money was spent on studies that according to Ernst & Young were to comment on Dr. Cyrenne's report and according to KPMG was to undertake a critical review of the Cyrenne report. Is this what the government's priorities are, $118,000, because some academic conducted a study that did not like everything they are doing with lotteries and the Free Press ran a series of articles in the election? Is that how low this government is stooping, that it has to conduct a vendetta against the Free Press and academic consultants?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, a report was done by one Philippe Cyrenne. It did receive extensive coverage through one of our media outlets, the Winnipeg Free Press. As a result of producing that report, the Manitoba Lotteries Corporation wanted to determine whether or not it was a report that they could put credibility in and utilize in terms of future decisions. As well, other jurisdictions have asked for copies of that report.

Obviously the Manitoba Lotteries Corporation has a responsibility to ensure that all data utilized is accurate, reliable information. I think that is fundamental. That is certainly how the Lotteries Corporation should function. That is how this government functions.

I know that is not how the government functioned that the member for Thompson was a part of, but quality, reliable information is important to the Manitoba Lotteries Corporation. That was the purpose of that study. One element of it was to assess a critique that had been done or an analysis that had been done by this Philippe Cyrenne, and it was an important part of the study.

Mr. Ashton: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask a further question, once again, to the Premier.

I would like to ask, if this government does not see anything wrong with conducting this at the cost of $118,000, does it not at least consider it to be somewhat questionable that one of the firms that conducted one of these studies also happens to do auditing work for the Lotteries Foundation? On what basis is that considered objective, and how does the government feel it is getting its money's worth for the $43,000 it spent on the supposed objective study when it was done by a firm that has direct ties to the Lotteries Foundation?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, that assertion is absolutely unbelievable. Are you calling into question the professional integrity of Ernst & Young? Is that what the member for Thompson is doing? Ernst & Young are an international, reputable auditing accounting firm that do the audit for Manitoba Lotteries Corporation. It is not uncommon--[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

The honourable Minister of Finance, to complete his response.

Mr. Stefanson: For businesses or various organizations it is certainly not uncommon to ask your own auditor to perform additional work on your behalf. It happens. The members across laugh. Obviously none of them have ever had experience either in a business entity or in any organization that has utilized services. That is all their laughter indicates, Madam Speaker.

It is common practice that auditors perform work on behalf of entities, not uncommon in the business world, not uncommon with nonprofit organizations. Ernst & Young are an international, reputable auditing firm and certainly would not jeopardize their integrity or their reputation by not providing a quality report. I really find the comments from the member for Thompson absolutely unbelievable, Madam Speaker.

Winnipeg Jets/Arena

Funding

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, the Minister of Finance has confirmed that no formal written agreement exists which established the MEC arena plan as an infrastructure project.

Madam Speaker, I want to acknowledge that on Tuesday of this week, while seeking responses from the Minister of Finance, I used language which I regret and for which I now wish to apologize to the minister and to the House. I withdraw the words to which the honourable government House leader objected in his point of order, and I trust that this will resolve this matter.

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Madam Speaker: I thank the honourable member for Crescentwood for his withdrawal. That will conclude that matter.

The honourable member for Crescentwood, to quickly pose a question.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, the minister has confirmed that $1.1 million of the $3 million spent has come in the form of cheques issued by the government, that a further $750,000 came from the Jets private sector inc. Could the minister tell the House where the remaining $1.1 million has come from?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, firstly, not all funds have been advanced to the Spirit of Manitoba. We are still waiting final documentation, final invoices, final costing as they are winding down their operations. So in terms of the distribution of the funds, all funds have not flowed.

I have indicated on many occasions there are commitments from all three levels of government and from the private sector which will total about $7 million.

As I have indicated in this House and publicly on many occasions, we are expecting that full accounting sometime fairly shortly from the Spirit of Manitoba. That accounting will be audited by the independent auditors of the Spirit of Manitoba. I believe that is Price Waterhouse. As I have indicated on many occasions, we also intend to have our own Provincial Auditor do a review of the entire issue and the transactions. I expect all of that to occur over the course of the next several weeks.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, I want to ask the Minister of Finance whether he and/or his officials were aware of the $533,000 Industrial Adjustment Service Program grant from Minister Axworthy, the Minister of Human Resources Canada, to MEC before it was made public earlier this week, a copy of which I would like to table now with the House.

Was the minister aware of this agreement, Madam Speaker?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, we were aware of a federal commitment to provide $500,000 to support the initiatives of MEC, ultimately Spirit, back early in 1995 at the same time that we were making our commitment to advance up to a maximum of $1.5 million against our $10-million commitment under the infrastructure program. So we were aware of a commitment from the federal government in terms of their funding source. Where they would derive their funds, their process of distributing that to the MEC at the time and so on, was obviously something that they would be determining.

Mr. Sale: Will the minister then, given the tabling of the federal IASP grant for the House, will he table for the House the letter from his government in March confirming the granting of $3 million in infrastructure funding for certain expenditures of MEC/Spirit? Can he tell the House how many other infrastructure grants have no formal approval mechanism in place?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, as I indicated the other day when similar questions were asked, what was being done here is funds were being advanced against an infrastructure commitment made by the federal government and by the provincial government.

If the members opposite were to follow how the infrastructure program has functioned here in Manitoba, particularly in the early months of the infrastructure program, notification was given on many occasions to municipalities that their projects had been approved and to go ahead and start putting out public tenders and getting their costs in and getting ready to get their project started well before contracts and agreements were entered into.

Those kinds of approaches have not been uncommon. The reality is a commitment was made by our government and by the federal government to provide some funding under the infrastructure agreement, and those funds were then advanced against progress statements and against invoices that were submitted, Madam Speaker.

In terms of the specific request about the letter sent in March, I will take that as notice. I do not see any reason that it probably cannot be provided, but I will take it as notice.

Disaster Assistance

Flooding Compensation

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, farmers below the Shellmouth Dam are very frustrated because their concerns with respect to the flooding this spring are not being addressed.

I want to ask the minister responsible for disaster assistance, who says there will be money for irrigation projects, why there is going to be money for irrigation projects in the Portage area when there is no money to address the concerns that have been raised by the people below the Shellmouth who were flooded because of mismanagement by this government.

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Hon. Brian Pallister (Minister of Government Services): The member for Swan River speaks in error. Certainly there is a great deal of money available in the form of assistance to residents of that area and to other unfortunate victims of flooding along the Assiniboine Basin. As a matter of fact, we estimate approximately $6 million available, not an amount of little consequence to those people. So certainly in terms of assisting the people who were victims of flood to get back on their feet and to restore their farms and their business to their previous state, we are doing everything in our power to do that with compassion and even-handedness.

Ms. Wowchuk: Since the minister has said in a statement that there will be money to support irrigation projects, I want to ask the minister where this money is going to come from and to give us insurances that other agriculture projects are not going to be sacrificed at the expense of irrigation projects.

Mr. Pallister: Well, as the member realizes and has alluded to in the House on numerous occasions, agriculture in our province and elsewhere in western Canada is undergoing radical change, radical reform, and there are great opportunities presented to us as a province by those reforms.

Certainly I know the member would realize that her constituents and the constituents throughout rural Manitoba who engage in the agricultural enterprises benefit from a proactive approach to addressing those opportunities. That is precisely what people on this side of the House are doing, collectively, and I know that she would be supportive of those endeavours.

Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, I want to ask the Minister of Rural Development why during the election he promised the people in his constituency that they would be compensated 100 percent for their losses, and after the election he met with them and told them he was not quite so sure that money would be there for them. Why have they broken another election promise?

Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development): Madam Speaker, as my colleague the Minister of Government Services (Mr. Pallister) has indicated, this government has been more than generous in terms of dealing with the disaster impacts of the flooding of the spring of 1995.

In meeting with many people throughout the Assiniboine area during the flood, we indicated that disaster assistance would be made available to the farmers who were suffering because of the flooding damage that was occurring to their property by the water that was coming in from the Shellmouth Dam and also from the drainage in Saskatchewan.

Madam Speaker, we also have met with people and officials in Saskatchewan to try and get an agreement whereby the situation with the water coming in from the Saskatchewan into the Assiniboine Basin could be dealt with in a fair way. I have also met with my constituents recently to discuss how we can manage the issue of water damage in the area below the Shellmouth Dam.

So, Madam Speaker, let not the member for Swan River think that this is a new issue for her because we have been dealing with this since early spring of this year.

Emergency Physicians' Strike

Back-to-Work Legislation

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

I was pleased to read in an article in one of our daily newspapers that the minister and this government have not ruled out the possibility of back-to-work legislation. Negotiations on emergency services have in fact reached an impasse. Since Day One of this legislative session the Liberal Party has been advocating that we need to have back-to-work legislation.

I am wondering if the Minister of Health today would concede that maybe now is the time to bring in back-to-work legislation so that we can have our emergency services in our hospitals back fully serviced prior to this weekend.

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, we are expecting a report from the mediator no later than next Tuesday. It would seem to me that to accept the honourable member's advice today would be quite an insult not only to the mediator but also to the MMA and to the Manitoba Health Organizations who have been working to try to resolve this matter in another way.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, can the Minister of Health indicate if in fact his department, or if he has requested the department to request Legislative Counsel what would be involved in terms of bringing into the Chamber back-to-work legislation? Has he had any contact with them?

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Mr. McCrae: The honourable member and his colleagues on that side of the House, and indeed this side, know how the work of the Legislative Counsel goes forward and the honourable member knows how that process works. He has brought legislation before the House. He has a bill before the House right now so he knows how that all works.

Madam Speaker, the question is basically the same one as the first one, which is, will you move in that particular direction? I say to you that would be, in my view, an inappropriate thing to do while we are awaiting the report of the mediator.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, the minister is quite right. I do know how it works and that is why I asked the question.

Has the Minister of Health put in any form of a request for Legislative Counsel to come back with a draft proposal on back-to-work legislation, or will in fact this minister start on Wednesday from fresh if he deems it is necessary at that point in time to bring in back-to-work legislation? Is the minister doing any work leading up to Tuesday?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, we have not viewed the legislative option to this point to be the option to be followed.

University of Manitoba

International Students

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, two years ago when the government chose to introduce differential fees for international students in Manitoba, the then-Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism assured the House that his government had conducted studies, and I quote: We will maintain the same level of international students that we have now.

My question is for the Minister of Education. Can the minister confirm that over the past two years, as we predicted on this side of the House, the numbers of international students at the University of Manitoba have decreased by 70 percent or more?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, I do not have the figures here. I will take the question as notice and come back and let the member know.

Ms. Friesen: Madam Speaker, I look forward to the minister's confirmation of that.

At the same time, can I ask the minister to explain how her government is prepared to make up the loss of $7.3 million that those international students, essentially long-term-stay tourists, have contributed to the Manitoba economy every year?

Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, I find it rather interesting because the member has presupposed the answer to the question. She asked me to bring her some information that supposedly she did not have, and then she makes another question based upon an answer she presumes would be the answer to the question she had to ask me because she did not know the answer to. I find it rather an interesting exercise in logic. She asks a question and then asks a subsequent question based upon what she assumes the answer to be.

Point of Order

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): On a point of order, Madam Speaker, Beauchesne is very clear about answers relating to the matter raised.

Quite frankly, that whole one minute, if someone can actually decipher it and determine if it is an answer, I will sit down. I think it was not an answer and I would ask that perhaps the minister would try and come up with at least some sort of an answer rather than that one-minute--I was going to call it a preamble to an answer but I do not even think ministers are allowed preambles. We certainly get ruled out of order when we give extensive preambles on our side.

Madam Speaker: On the point of order, indeed it is a point of order. I would ask that the Minister of Education respond to the question asked.

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Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, just to make certain I am correct, the question asked was to ask me if I could please respond to a figure that the member presumes will be the answer I bring to her first question.

I find that, as I said before, kind of an interesting thing. However, I would indicate that the government of Manitoba has been funding universities to the tune of some $20 million more and she is--[interjection] Well, you do not want the answer to the question? Madam Speaker, the member has indicated that a certain amount of money is going to be lost to the university and--

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Ms. Friesen: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the minister how she anticipates that our major university, the University of Manitoba, can continue to compete as an international university when the numbers of international students are declining, and yet our main competitors--Calgary, Saskatchewan--are maintaining their international student enrollment.

Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, I presume by the preamble in the member's question that she knows the figures she asked me for in her first question.

I would say this, Madam Speaker, we have maintained linkages with University of Manitoba alumni around the world, thriving linkages, and we do have an international presence through a wide variety of venues. We do have international students on campus. If the member is concerned that international students are now paying a larger fee than they used to pay, she should be concerned about other universities across this country as well, because that trend of trying to make sure that the per capita enrollment figures reflect more accurately the cost of the university is nationwide.

Social Assistance

Food Allowance

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, when the ministers of social services met in Winnipeg last week they issued a news release on September 22. In the news release, in fact in the first paragraph, they said that they would give priority to the well-being of children and families and they would continue to support Canadians most in need and reinforce Canada's record as a fair and caring society.

I would like to ask the Minister of Family Services if she plans to live up to this commitment of this news release that she helped to write and assure this House and assure families on city welfare that she will not cut the food allowance for children on city welfare. Can she provide us that assurance which is implied with this communique? Will she do that?

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Point of Order

Hon. Jim Ernst (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, being as how my honourable friend the Opposition House Leader wants to rise on technicalities related to questions, I also would like to draw your attention to Beauchesne's Citation 409(8): A question that has previously been answered ought not to be asked again.

The member for Burrows asked that question twice yesterday.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. On the honourable government House leader's point of order, I have been advised that tradition in Manitoba has been that a question can be repeated continually. It is your members' question time, and the response is entirely up to the member to whom it is being asked and that member also has the option of not responding at all.

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Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): I do thank my honourable friend for that question because indeed there was a consensus right across the country that children should come first, children and families. We wanted to seek the support from all Manitobans to help in that process.

I want to clarify for Manitobans that today there are two levels of support for children in the city of Winnipeg. There is the provincial rate and all of the single parents who are on social allowances are on the standard provincial rate today. In fact, the City of Winnipeg has a rate that they pay to families with children that is the highest across the country.

Madam Speaker, I believe that we could increase significantly the amount of money for food but there is no guarantee that the dollars that are provided for food and for proper nutrition for children in fact are going to go to those children's nutritional needs. That is an issue that was discussed by all governments of all political stripes right across the country. [interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Minister of Family Services, to complete her response.

Mrs. Mitchelson: If every dollar that was provided for food and nutritional support for children was going to children we would not find ourselves in the situation we are today where children need major use of our health care system, of our child and family services system, and experience neglect.

The reality is we want the dollars that we spend for children to go to those children. We are examining alternate ways of ensuring that the nutritional support that is provided to children indeed goes to them.

Mr. Martindale: I would like to ask the Minister of Family Services if she would reassure the parents of 7,000 children on City of Winnipeg welfare that she is going to not only not reduce the allowance for food but implement a request from her office, from her personally, to the Children and Youth Secretariat, that they examine ways to address child poverty and a request from Treasury Board of her government to the Children and Youth Secretariat to ensure that children get proper nutrition.

Will she follow up on those requests from her government and her department on behalf of children in the city of Winnipeg?

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mrs. Mitchelson: I absolutely will confirm that that is the direction our government is taking and that is some of the work that the Children and Youth Secretariat is doing presently today.

We see on a daily basis children in the province of Manitoba that are not properly fed and nourished. That is a reality. The issue for us as government and the best use of our taxpayers' dollars is indeed to ensure that proper nutritional support and education of parents, whom I might say have the most important responsibility any individual undertakes is that responsibility of parenting, to ensure that the tools are in the hands of those families and those parents, to ensure that they feed and nurture and love their children. That is the focus we are taking and the direction we are looking at in all of the programs that are being looked at through the Children and Youth Secretariat.

Mr. Martindale: I would like to ask the minister how she can justify blaming the parents of children on social assistance for not feeding their children, when at the same time she has a decision to make about whether or not she is going to reduce the rates. Can she assure us that she will not reduce the rates, instead of blaming the parents of these children? Why will she not answer this question?

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would remind the honourable member for Burrows that a question should consist of a single question and be brief. This was the final supplementary question and should not require a long postamble.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Obviously the system that we have in place today and the dollars that we are providing, some $320 million in the province of Manitoba for social allowances, does not guarantee that children are going to be the recipients of proper nourishment. We see evidence on a day-by-day basis.

I do not want to blame any parent. What I want to do is encourage, support and provide the opportunity for every parent to learn to parent, to accept that responsibility. We will help them with the tools and the support. More dollars into the hands of parents does not necessarily mean better nourishment for children.

Social Assistance

Housing Costs

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): I want to begin by tabling for the House two pages from the government's report, The Health of Manitoba's Children, which clearly indicates that the costs for food are below what is given to social allowance recipients for their food allowance. I will table those two pages for the minister's information. The cost for food is greater than the allowance that they are given.

On the same issue, when I raised this in the House yesterday I asked the minister about the number of Manitoba families on social allowance that are using their food budget to add to the cost of paying for their rent, and that may be one of the areas that the minister is referring to. At that time, the Premier (Mr. Filmon) said, those are choices that the people have to make.

I want to ask the minister to confirm if she is taking her cue from Mike Harris in Ontario and if she agrees that it is acceptable for families to have to pay their rent using the food allowance because neither are high enough to cover the costs in this province.

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): I want to indicate again and let all Manitobans know that the rates for children in the city of Winnipeg are the highest rates across the country. When I listened to the minister of social services from the province of British Columbia talk about the major welfare reform that was being undertaken in that province, their rates are going to be reduced, Madam Speaker.

I question where a New Democratic Party would come from asking questions of Manitoba, when, indeed, their cousins in British Columbia are reducing rates and there is major reform of the welfare system taking place. I want to say that our--[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Minister of Family Services, to quickly complete her response.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, we want to assure that the dollars that we are providing for nutrition and the way we provide that support in the province of Manitoba assures that children are being nourished and loved and nurtured.

Ms. Cerilli: I would like to ask the minister to confirm the figures in the Postl report that do indicate that the cost of food in Manitoba in all the regions that the report details, for the differences in all the regions of the province, that in all the regions the cost for food is higher than the allowance being given by this government.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, I want to repeat again that the rates in the city of Winnipeg are higher than the rates in the city of Vancouver or in the city of Toronto, and I know that the cost of living in Manitoba, in Winnipeg is not as high as those jurisdictions.

Madam Speaker, we will be changing the whole way we deliver social allowance in the city of Winnipeg as a result of developing a one-tiered approach to providing support. Our support and our focus will be ensuring that there is proper nutrition and nurturing and support of children and families throughout the city of Winnipeg with any new program that is put in place.

Ms. Cerilli: Madam Speaker, the fact of the matter is that is not happening--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I have recognized the honourable member for Radisson for a final supplementary question with no preamble. Would the honourable member please pose her question now?

Ms. Cerilli: Is the minister promoting a policy for this government, as one of my constituents has to do in spending more than 50 percent of her social allowance on rent, adding another $20 from her food budget to supplement her rent? Is that the kind of policy this government is proposing, to have people choose between having food--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, the policy that we are proposing as a government is a policy that is consistent with looking towards support for families and children and putting children first. That policy will include a whole new way of delivering social allowance in the city of Winnipeg with a focus on proper parenting and nurturing and nutrition for children.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.