Health Care System
Emergency Services
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, as we have tabled in the past dealing with minutes from hospital committees dealing with the potential closing of emergency wards, there is a strong concern about five minutes can make a difference to the life and limb of citizens in the community hospital catchment area when emergency wards are closed from 10 p.m. to 8 a.m.
Madam Speaker, we have argued and suggested over time that the government has, in fact, and, indeed, closed these emergency wards without any plan at all.
I would like to ask the acting Premier, why have you closed the community-based emergency wards from ten o'clock at night to 8 a.m. in the morning without any plan in place?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): As the honourable Leader of the Opposition knows, when emergency physicians and pathologists left their workplaces back on Labour Day, the hospitals, all of them, the community hospitals and the tertiary centres along with Manitoba Health, had to put together a contingency plan which was done and which was able to work throughout the duration of the strike. That formed the basis for the planning that went on after the strike as well, Madam Speaker, and services are being delivered in accordance with the plan as it is in operation today.
Mr. Doer: I would like to table a document dated October 20, 1995, a document that states and articulates an agenda for a strategy for developing a plan to deal with the Integrated Emergency Services Delivery Steering system, a strategy, Madam Speaker, that goes through three phases and will not be completed until sometime late November.
Madam Speaker, it is clear from this document there is no plan in place by the government. The government had no plan. They are flying by the seat of their proverbial pants. They have no plan in place.
I would like the government to reverse its position. I would like the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) to reverse the position of the government so the planning can go in before the decisions are made, not after the decisions are made, Madam Speaker.
Mr. McCrae: Contrary, again, Madam Speaker, to the assertions of the Leader of the Opposition, the way the emergency system is operating today is the result of a consensus amongst the members of the Integrated Emergency Services Delivery Steering Committee which is made up of professionals, medical directors, nurses and CEOs from the various hospitals.
I remind the honourable Leader of the Opposition that Mr. Jack Chapman, Q.C. made a recommendation in his mediation report, a recommendation accepted by the two parties to the dispute that was on at that time, and that recommendation was that an integrated emergency system be developed before the end of this year. That work is being done by this Integrated Emergency Services Delivery Steering Committee. As it existed at the time, it was the hospitals that developed the consensus that forms the basis for what we are doing now.
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Emergency Services--Consultations
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): I would like the minister to explain why he says there was a consensus when the government Department of Health had to instruct the two hospitals that were leaving their emergency wards open to close them and play ball with the government for the next two or three weeks until final decisions could be made. They were instructed by the minister's own department, contrary to the allegation that they had a consensus.
I would also like to ask the minister why the public is not involved in the consensus that the government is talking about, why there are no public hearings in stage 1, stage 2, stage 3. Why are the public and the people, who have been given the promises by the government, not involved in the decisions that affect their lives in their communities with their community hospitals?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the honourable member forgets that the emergency services system in the city of Winnipeg has been under scrutiny for some five years, and that scrutiny has included various reports which have been the culmination of consultation with various people in society including members of the public. Organizations like the Consumers' Association and the Manitoba Society of Seniors are also involved in the Integrated Emergency Services Delivery Steering Committee.
Health Care System
Emergency Services--Consultations
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, how can the minister in his recent response to the Leader of the Opposition say that there were consultations and studies prior, when the minister himself rejected the very recommendations of those committees and unilaterally, on his own, from the minister's office with help from their consulting firm, made the decision to close the emergency wards at the community hospitals?
How can the minister then say, oh, no, we have had consultations the last five years, and, in fact, rejected the recommendations of those consultations, Madam Speaker?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, Manitoba Health, at the highest levels, pleaded with the doctors not to go on strike for several months and to leave that option open pending the development of an integrated emergency services plan--pleaded with the doctors not to go on strike.
The honourable member for Kildonan would suggest that that did not happen, and there was precious little comment from the honourable member in those early days of the strike when the doctors left their work, Madam Speaker, precious little comment then and plenty of comment now.
Health Sciences Centre/St. Boniface Hospital
Emergency Resources
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, can the minister explain why we have data from the Health Sciences Centre's annual report which shows that visits to emergency rooms last year were up 10 percent from 39,714 to 43,810, and now we know that visits are up dramatically because of the closure of community hospitals and we know they are going to cut another $19 million from that budget, can the minister explain what resources are in place to take care of that extra load at Health Sciences and St. Boniface?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, resources are being made available to the Health Sciences Centre and the St. Boniface Hospital emergency departments while the closure at night of other emergency rooms places more pressure on those emergency rooms. Those resources are being made available.
You know, Madam Speaker, the honourable member is asking these questions at this late stage of the proceedings. After some five years of all these studies, he finally has some comment to make, but where was he on Labour Day? Was he putting the interests of the patient first, or was he putting his time-honoured NDP principles of labour solidarity ahead of the safety of patients in this province?
Health Care System
Emergency Services--Consultations
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): My final supplementary to the minister: Madam Speaker, can the minister at least undertake today in this House to commit that he will hold public hearings, like members on this side of the House are doing, holding four public hearings, to let Manitobans speak about the damage this policy is doing to the health care system?
If he does not have the courage to hold public meetings, will he at least send officials from his department to attend our public meetings, so they can hear what the public is going to have to say about the closure of these emergency wards?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, all I ask of the honourable member is that he and his colleagues try to observe some modicum of consistency in the positions they take on health issues or any other issues for that matter.
You know, it is not good enough, Madam Speaker, for me to preside over the consultation of thousands and thousands of Manitobans on health issues, only to be told by the honourable member that we consult too much, and then on the other hand when decisions get made, we do not consult enough.
The honourable member ought to make up his mind what he really wants, Madam Speaker.
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Youth Crime
Bail Hearings
Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Justice.
On Sunday, Manitobans suffered yet another tragedy of youth violence when 17-year-old Donald Ashcroft was shot in the chest at point-blank with a handgun. He is now struggling for his life. Manitobans will be shocked to learn that the 15-year-old who was charged with attempted murder and serious weapons offences was released on bail yesterday afternoon.
My question to the minister is, has she made inquiries so she can explain to the people of Manitoba how a youth allegedly involved in such a serious, tragic shooting over a hat can get bail in a day?
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, by virtue of your ruling, I understand the member has a choice of convention of raising cases before the court or not within this Chamber. He has chosen to continue to do so.
Madam Speaker, I am the Attorney General. I do not have that same opportunity to discuss cases which are before the court. Any statements which are made by me very likely would influence the way a case was further conducted, so I am not able to speak about that issue.
Members across the way, Madam Speaker, continue to think that is funny. The cases at hand are too serious and they are not funny.
Mr. Mackintosh: Would the minister, who does not want to speak about this, but we do, Madam Speaker, explain what steps the minister is taking to ensure that the Crown appeals the bail decision on an expedited basis?
Mrs. Vodrey: Madam Speaker, again, I will not be speaking about that case. However, I will remind the member that bail is granted by the judiciary. It is the judiciary who make the decisions as to whether or not there will be interim release or bail.
Psychological Assessments
Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): I then ask the minister, if, in the least, she would be prepared to take steps to ensure that a psychological assessment is done of the accused in the interest of public safety.
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, the member always make it very tempting to have me want to speak about a case which is before the court. I will not speak about cases before the court, as the member well knows. However, I can say in a very general sense that we make every effort to deal with these cases which are before the courts and to make sure that what is required is certainly made available.
Foster Families
Public Housing
Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Madam Speaker, this government has reduced the allowance for foster families by 6 percent, but for foster families who live in public housing, it is actually a 33 percent cut because now those families are having 27 percent of their foster allowance paid towards their rent in public housing.
I want to ask the Minister responsible for Housing how the government can justify increasing poverty for these families by now taking this money from foster families to pay for the rent geared to income for foster families.
Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Housing): The member for Radisson is correct when she says the rent that is geared to income is 27 percent of the income that is derived from the family.
In regard to the calculation of funding to foster parents, unless more than one-third of the family income comes from that source, it is not taxed or part of the income for the calculation.
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Ms. Cerilli: Supplementary question, Madam Speaker: I would like the minister to clarify for the House that the purpose of this policy is to drive foster families out of public housing or to ensure that tenants in public housing do not foster children in the province of Manitoba.
Mr. Reimer: Public housing serves and will continue to serve a function within the society here in Manitoba and for the people in need.
As mentioned, payments to foster parents and to people that look after foster children, payments in excess of one-third of the family income are then included in the calculation of funding that is geared to the income, Madam Speaker.
There is no change in the philosophy and it is not the intent to make public housing inaccessible to anybody.
Ms. Cerilli: Given that foster families in public housing are already low-income Manitobans, how can the government justify giving with one hand and taking away with the other and increasing poverty for these low-income families in Manitoba?
Mr. Reimer: Madam Speaker, I will repeat again to the member for Radisson that one-third of the family income is untaxed. If it is above one-third of the income of the family, it is used as income for the calculation on the 27 percent that is charged in the rent.
Health Care System
Emergency Services--Costs
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question, too, is for the Minister of Health.
It is proving extremely difficult to get any sort of accurate information coming from many of the different administrators, given this particular Minister of Health's approach.
We do know that on average it takes six nurses and one doctor to operate in emergency services in a community hospital at an approximate cost of just under $2,000. Madam Speaker, that does not include costs such as additional services at Health Sciences Centre, St. Boniface, additional ambulance fees, not to mention, first and foremost, the cost of delivering emergency services to our constituents or to the consumers.
My question to the minister is, can the minister indicate today whether or not the figure of just under $2,000 is in fact what this minister is actually saving in any given day?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the honourable member should be reminded that the whole idea of savings is not what is driving the process in emergency services in the city of Winnipeg.
I can understand his mind being on that since he fails daily to pick up the phone and call his federal colleagues, Madam Speaker, because they are going to be taking $220 million away from us. He fails to do that on a daily basis and raises questions about savings here.
Point of Order
Mr. Lamoureux: On a point of order, Madam Speaker, Beauchesne's is fairly clear in the sense that the minister should be answering questions to the best of his ability, and if he does not have the answer, to sit down.
The information that the Minister of Health has put on the record is very inaccurate. All he needs to do is check with the government's own estimates, and you will find just how bad you are in terms of your estimates of the federal government's expenditures on health care--and answer the question that has been posed to him, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Health, on the same point of order.
Mr. McCrae: In light of what the honourable member has said in the guise of a point of order, Madam Speaker, perhaps then he can explain how you break down the $7 billion Ottawa is taking away from the provinces for health and post-secondary education.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. On the point of order by the honourable member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux), I listened very intently, and when he initially started, I agree with him wholeheartedly, he had a point of order, but he added a lot of extraneous material that made me wonder why he was on a point of order.
I would remind the honourable minister and all ministers that their responses to questions are not to provoke debate and are to be as brief as possible.
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Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I would ask the minister whether or not he is prepared to concede today that he cannot find other ways of saving taxpayers' money, given that we spend just under $5 million a day on health care and the total cost that I would estimate, because the minister is not prepared to state, is approximately $3.7 million.
Will the minister concede defeat on this particular issue and say that the real reason is because of cost savings, it is not because of quality patient care?
Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, I am not in the habit of making those kinds of concessions, especially when the information brought to the floor of this Chamber by honourable members opposite is so very incorrect.
The honourable member might be interested in knowing that the estimated additional expenses currently being incurred by the Health Sciences Centre to cope with the additional volumes in their emergency departments is as follows: In the Children's Hospital emergency, there are two additional registered nurses and a .8 of an equivalent staff year for a nurse's aide plus benefits and drugs and other supplies and a physician. That is for the Children's Hospital emergency.
In the adult Emergency Department, Madam Speaker, this is on an annualized equivalent staff year basis, 4.8 registered nurses, 4.2 aides, 2.7 unit clerks. There is a 15 percent levy for benefits and then another amount for drugs and an additional physician.
So those are the kinds of additional resources being made available to the Health Sciences Centre while we go through this transition stage, Madam Speaker.
Mr. Lamoureux: Will the Minister of Health today indicate to the House what is the actual financial cost of closing down our community hospitals from 10 p.m. to 8 a.m.? Does the Minister of Health have any idea--I throw the figure of $2,000. Does he have any idea--
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.
Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, it is very nice of the honourable member to throw figures around, but I am not going to do that.
I would think that there would be some modest saving of dollars as a result of reduced hours of operation, but I do not have a number to throw around like the honourable member does.
North American Free Trade Agreement
Impact on Trade Balance
Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, the honourable Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism frequently cites Manitoba's strong export performance, but does not ever refer to the real bottom line in trade, which is the trade balance.
Exports have indeed been strong and that is good news, but the real trade balance issue has been getting steadily worse since the signing of the FTA and of NAFTA. Will the minister confirm the fact that our trade balance has been deteriorating since the signing of NAFTA?
Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Speaker, I appreciate the fact that the member has indicated that our exports have been improving and increasing over the last years. In fact, I think it was 30-some percent last year to the United States, again, for the first seven months of this year, close to 27 to 28 percent to the U.S. markets.
Madam Speaker, it is my understanding as it relates to some of the imports that some of the products and some of the items that are being imported are plant for the expansion of some of the businesses that are in fact growing their exports. So that is some of the reason for imports of product or machinery into the province.
Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, will the minister then confirm that Manitoba's trade deficit has deteriorated since 1991 by some 70 percent from $797 million in 1991 to $1.284 billion in 1994? Will he confirm that deterioration?
Mr. Downey: No, I will not, Madam Speaker, but I will take a look at the numbers and get back to the member as it relates to the numbers that we have available to us.
Mr. Sale: My final supplementary question to the same minister: Will the minister also confirm that Manitoba's exports to Mexico in the first six months of this year have fallen by over 20 percent while our imports have grown by 47 percent? NAFTA is failing us clearly, at least in the early going.
Mr. Downey: Madam Speaker, the member for Crescentwood will do everything he can to try and paint a negative picture as it relates to an old, outdated position which he continues to carry with him as an NDP opposed to the development of trade and NAFTA. I do not know when he is going to get into the modern world and wake up to what is really going on. The economy, the jobs and the development of this province are far outstripping anything that he would like to have happen.
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Repap Manitoba Inc.
Forest Management Plan
Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): My question is for the Minister of Natural Resources.
Repap has presented its fourth annual cutting plan without having completed its mandatory 10-year forest management plan, again.
Why is this government not insisting that Repap complete this 10-year plan, which was due March 31, 1992?
Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, we are in the process of completing it now.
Mr. Struthers: Does this minister realize that the increase in Repap's annual allowable cut without a 10-year management plan flies directly in the face of this government's commitment to sustainability, particularly the Endangered Spaces Program in which it has been quoted that there is no plan to represent natural regions involved in these agreements?
Mr. Driedger: Madam Speaker, I would beg the members of the House to have a little bit of patience, approximately a week or so, when we might be able to make some very positive announcements in this House.
Swan Valley School Division
Post-Secondary Distance Education
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): The Swan Valley School Division was shortchanged by this government when it was not included in the Distance Education program when it comes to post-secondary education. It was not included in Universities North, and it was shut out from first year's distance education.
Despite that, the school division spent $100,000 and set up a site to deliver post-secondary education. However, the costs of the telephone rates which started out at $180 an hour have jumped to $635 an hour and are about to kill this program.
I want to ask the Minister of Education what she is prepared to do to ensure that post-secondary education can continue to be delivered at this site.
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): I thank the member for her interest in this very innovative and challenging project upon which we are embarked in the Department of Education.
Distance education, ultimately, will be expected to cover all parts of Manitoba. Right now it is in the initial stages. Clusters are being identified. Lines, networks and highways are being targeted for setup. School divisions have been making good preparation.
Our department has set up a special operating agency called MERLIN which is there to guide and assist divisions with their computer equipment and the materials necessary.
Ms. Wowchuk: I want to ask the minister if she realizes that the program in Swan River has been in operation for five years. The school has made the investment. They are prepared, despite the challenges that have been put before them by this government.
What steps is she going to take to ensure that those courses continue and that the people of the Swan River area are treated fairly, not shut out as they were in first-year distance education?
Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, many school divisions and many educational authorities across this province have begun in the last five or six years to set up their own systems. We are looking to co-ordinate, link those together. For that we have a co-ordinating agency.
As well, Madam Speaker, through Inter-Universities North, we will be establishing and are--we have established, but will be continuing to build upon the Inter-Universities North in northern Manitoba to co-ordinate post-secondary education throughout the northern part of the province and to link with post-secondary educational distance delivery services in the more highly populated portions of the province.
Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, since Swan River has already got an established site, can the minister give us the assurance that they will not be punished or held back until other sites catch up? Can she ensure that the funding will be in place, that this site will continue to operate?
Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, the members opposite know and the members on this side know, as do many of the educators in Manitoba involved in the system know, that distance education and the innovations that are being put in place by this government to deliver such services--put in place by this government, not by the other party when they were in government--are on the forefront of education throughout Canada.
We have had discussions with other provinces as well, so that the linkages will not just be in Manitoba but, indeed, with other provinces as well. It is our intention, as I indicated in my earlier response, that this network will encompass all of Manitoba, linking all parts to each other and to other jurisdictions outside this province as well, Madam Speaker.
McKenzie Seeds
Agreement Tabling Request
Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Madam Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson).
I understand that the Minister of Finance has discussed with the Minister of Culture and Heritage the possibility of providing the Legislative Assembly with a copy of the agreement of sale of McKenzie Seeds with Regal Greetings and MDC.
Is the Minister of Finance now prepared in the name of open government to table this agreement so that the public can see precisely what guarantees, if any, have been provided to keep the jobs in the city of Brandon?
Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship): Madam Speaker, some three hours ago in committee, we discussed this quite thoroughly. I indicated that we would take the member's suggestion seriously and hopefully have something for him in the near future.
Mr. Leonard Evans: Well, I ask this question of the minister then: Why would the government not release the entire agreement as was done in the case of MDS, which was sold to the private sector, which was also in competition, rather than parts of the agreement as was suggested this morning by the minister in the committee, so that the members of the public and the members of the Legislature can see exactly how the government can exercise its rights and really guarantee those jobs in the city of Brandon?
Mr. Gilleshammer: Madam Speaker, I find it interesting, the member has been silent on this for a year now. I indicated in committee this morning that we would take his request seriously. We would look at the third-party confidentiality issues and, hopefully, have something for him in the near future.
Board Membership
Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the minister, why does the government not have a representative on the board of directors of the company to be able to keep abreast of the operations of the company? In other words, how does it intend to get the necessary data to assure itself that the specifics of the agreement are being upheld?
Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship): I am sure that it will give the member for Brandon East great comfort to know that Mr. Ray West is the chairman of the board.
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Social Assistance
Government Initiatives
Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, the Premier is the first amongst ministers, and so the Premier is ultimately responsible for all policies of his government, including the fact that Winnipeg has the disgraceful record of being the child poverty capital of Canada, and his government intends to make it worse when they standardize the rates for social assistance for children in the city of Winnipeg.
I would like to ask the Premier what his government is prepared to do to improve the lives, particularly of single parents with children, to make ends meet and to give them more income, not less, so they are not forced to depend on food banks, where over 40 percent of the recipients are children.
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, certainly, for all of the detail of that question, I will take it as notice on behalf of the Minister of Family Services (Mrs. Mitchelson), but I remind the member opposite that Manitoba's rates for single parents with children are in the top third, I believe, of the provinces in Canada.
Mr. Martindale: I would like to ask the Premier what his government is going to do in view of the fact that the new statistics are out recently which show that the income for single parents with one child in Manitoba between 1992 and 1994 declined by 7 percent, the worst record in Canada. What is this Premier going to do to improve the lives of single parents with children?
Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, we have always acknowledged the needs of single parents with children and tried to treat them in a better fashion than others on social assistance.
In addition to that, of course, we brought in the most generous child tax credits in Canada in the budget of 1989 that added several hundred dollars of income to those who have children in this province, and we will continue to look at ways in which we can address those issues.
Mr. Martindale: I would like to ask the Premier why Manitoba, in spite of what the Premier is alleging, continues to attack the incomes of people who are already poor so that, for example, couples with two children lost 3 percent of their income between 1992 and '94.
What is this Premier prepared to do to help people, instead of punishing them, by increasing their income instead of decreasing it?
Mr. Filmon: This government has maintained a policy of freezing or reducing almost all of the major tax rates in this province, Madam Speaker. That has made it more affordable for people to live in this province than in other provinces. In fact, the cost of living--
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable First Minister, to complete his response.
Mr. Filmon: The budget of the Province of Saskatchewan demonstrated unequivocally that for those in low-income circumstances, at $25,000 or less--that in this province the taxes and the regulated costs imposed on those families were lower than they were in any other province in Canada, so by our policies we have lowered their cost of living below those of other provinces, instead of as they were under the NDP, which, of course, continued to raise their taxes and raise their cost of living.
Trade Deficit--U.S.
Provincial Statistics
Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, given the fact that the Manitoba Bureau of Statistics has published Manitoba's trade deficit with the United States in an official publication titled Manitoba Trade with the United States 1990-94, will the Minister responsible for Industry, Trade and Tourism confirm the fact that the deficit in manufacturing alone, and I quote from the publication, has grown in this past four years from a billion-dollar deficit to a $2-billion deficit during that period of time?
Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Speaker, I will not accept the numbers that the member has presented. I will not accept them in the context of which he is presenting them, but I will tell him, in 1994 Manitoba's world exports boomed to a record level of $4.7 billion, a 29 percent increase. He continually wants to paint a negative picture as to what is happening in Manitoba.
Madam Speaker, again, I made a reference to the fact that some of the import is for machinery to, in fact, produce the products that are being marketed in the international marketplace. That is the reason why there is a growth in the imports of product to this country.
Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, my supplementary is to the same minister.
Will the minister agree that the effect of the trade deficit of $1.2 billion with the United States means that every Manitoban, man, woman and child, exports $1,000 per head to pay the cost of that trade deficit which is widening every year, Madam Speaker?
Mr. Downey: No, Madam Speaker. The problem with the member for Crescentwood, again, he comes to this House looking at the wrong end of the sewer pipe. If he would--
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Point of Order
Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): Madam Speaker, I do not know what expertise the minister has in terms of sewer pipes but, regardless, it is not parliamentary to make such a reference and I think it might be more appropriate if he withdrew that comment.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would ask the honourable Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism to withdraw the words.
Mr. Downey: Madam Speaker, I will withdraw. I guess he is looking at the right end of the sewer pipe. I will withdraw.
I withdraw, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker: I thank the honourable Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism.
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Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism, to quickly complete his response.
Mr. Downey: Yes, Madam Speaker, the equipment that comes in to Louisiana-Pacific for a $100-plus-million expansion probably comes as an imported product into this country.
We look at Nestle Carnation that expanded their plant at Carberry, which is several millions of dollars, and all of these create hundreds of jobs in Manitoba to produce the manufacturing products that we export.
You have to have the equipment to produce the products that you are going to sell, Madam Speaker. I hope he understands.
Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, when the government trivializes important questions by laughing, it clearly shows where they are at.
Madam Speaker, will the same minister confirm that based on the Manitoba Bureau of Statistics' first six months data for 1995, Manitoba's trade deficit will widen further to $1.34 billion this year?
It is getting worse, not better, Mr. Minister. What are you doing about it?
Mr. Downey: The member should be fully aware of the fact that we have some 14,000 more people working in our economy than we had a year ago, Madam Speaker--14,000. [interjection] Nine months, that is right, not a year.
Madam Speaker, when we look at the expansion of Ayerst Organics in Brandon, Nestle-Simplot, McCain at Portage la Prairie, Pine Falls, McKenzie Seeds, and all of the things that are taking place--the garment industry that needs 1,700 workers, they buy sewing machines and equipment to bring into this province to create employment.
That is what the imports are, Madam Speaker. The agricultural machinery imports, every machine dealer has had a tremendous year this year. A lot of it is imported machinery for agriculture production.
I hope, Madam Speaker, that he would, in fact, look at both sides of the ledger.
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Madam Speaker: Order, please. Time for Oral Questions has expired.
Committee Changes
Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): I move, seconded by the member for Broadway (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Economic Development be amended as follows: Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) for St. James (Ms. Mihychuk); Wolseley (Ms. Friesen) for Interlake (Mr. Clif Evans); Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk) for Thompson (Mr. Ashton), for Tuesday, October 24, 1995, for 2:30 p.m.
I move, seconded by the member for Broadway (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Law Amendments be amended as follows: Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson) for Osborne (Ms. McGifford), for Tuesday, October 24, for 7 p.m.
Motions agreed to.
NONPOLITICAL STATEMENTS
United Nations--50th Anniversary
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I wonder if I could have leave to make a nonpolitical statement?
Madam Speaker: Does the honourable First Minister have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]
Mr. Filmon: Today is the 50th anniversary of the United Nations. People worldwide are celebrating this momentous occasion. It is very appropriate that we, the members of Manitoba's Legislative Assembly, join together today to recognize the tremendous good the United Nations has accomplished over the last half-century.
Canada has been a proud member of this organization since its inception on October 24, 1945. The positive impact of the United Nations has been felt in virtually every country in the world.
The United Nations is a symbol of hope that no one is ever alone in their struggle for peace, human rights, freedom and a better way of life, no matter where they live. Dedicated Manitobans are a part of a global community committed to the United Nations principles and committed to making the world a better place for all.
We should also be proud of the fact that the United Nations has named Canada as being the best place in the world in which to live in 1992, 1994 and 1995. In the half-century the UN has been in existence, Canada, itself, has become a world leader exerting influence far beyond our size.
Earlier today in this building, 25 Manitobans became citizens of Canada as part of the UN 50th anniversary celebrations. I offer my congratulations to our new Canadian citizens. This is the latest of many events that have taken place in Manitoba celebrating the UN's 50th anniversary.
I thank all the volunteers who have worked so very hard on the Citizenship Court and the many events celebrating the 50th anniversary. Their interest in organizations like the United Nations is a sign that as Manitobans our sense of caring goes well beyond our country's borders.
As the United Nations turns 50 in 1995, Manitoba is recognizing its 125th anniversary. As we celebrate our heritage and our future, let us also not forget our responsibilities to the world around us as well. I commend all Manitobans who have contributed to the work of the United Nations association and encourage all Manitobans to support the ideals this organization embodies. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): I would like to have leave for a nonpolitical statement.
Madam Speaker: Does the honourable Leader of the official opposition have leave? [agreed]
Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, I would like to join with the Premier and all members of this Legislature in paying tribute to the 50th anniversary of the United Nations and paying tribute to the ceremony today conducted by Judge Elizabeth Willcock for the citizenship of our new Canadians here in Manitoba.
Madam Speaker, it is a tremendous amount of pride when you see people affirming their desire to be citizens of Canada. At a time when there is so much in the national debate about Canada, it is wonderful to see people from all parts of this world affirming the great wonders and beauty and freedoms of Canada and affirming the great democracy that we have through their active citizenship that we witnessed here this morning. It makes us proud, all of us I think can be proud, to reaffirm our belief in our great citizenship of our great country, Canada, and it was so very important to see these people from literally all parts of the globe affirming that this morning in the ceremony.
It is also very fitting that this Citizenship Court would take place on the 50th anniversary of the United Nations. As Dr. Nichols pointed out today, Manitoba and the citizens of Canada reflect the peoples of the United Nations. Dr. Nichols pointed out the great contributions of the United Nations to world peace, world harmony, but Dr. Nichols also pointed out that there is more to the United Nations than 150 presidents meeting in the UN in New York, that the next 50 years of the United Nations will have to be consistent with the Charter of the United Nations where we will have united peoples in the world and on the planet.
That is why today, Madam Speaker, I was so proud to see so many young Manitobans who were sponsored by the United Nations Human Rights Committee who participated in the presentation of cartoons--and some of them I dare say might have good careers later on perhaps producing those in a political sense--but produced cartoons and produced essays about the future of our planet, about the future role the United Nations has.
The themes were very consistent, Madam Speaker. One of the cartoons from one of the young persons was, let us clean up our planet. Another theme was, let us deal with racism around the world and let us deal with racism in our own community. A third theme from the young people was, let us deal with world peace. Let us truly bring world peace to our planet and move ahead.
Madam Speaker, we also saw young people produce documents to deal with the tremendous disparity in the world, the tremendous disparity even in our own communities between the rich and the poor, the disparity that is not shrinking in our world and in our planet but rather, unfortunately, growing greater and greater between the wealthy nations and the not-so-wealthy nations and wealthy people and poor people in our great, wonderful world.
So these young people, Madam Speaker, as they were celebrating the 50th anniversary of the United Nations, I think we can be proud of the vision that Manitoba's school children have about the future, the next 50 years of the United Nations where there is a lot more work to do, not just between the nations of the world but between the peoples of the world. I congratulate the United Nations and the young people of Manitoba and the new citizens here today. Thank you.
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, I, too, would like leave to make a nonpolitical statement.
Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for Inkster have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]
Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, it is with pleasure that I, along with my colleagues, join with the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) in paying tribute to the 50th anniversary of the United Nations.
Some of the things that the United Nations has done have been overwhelming and have touched the hearts and souls of millions of people around the world. When it advocates and it speaks out against activities that are against human rights, natural human rights, if you like, throughout the world of promoting peace, it has provided opportunities for thousands of Canadians coast to coast in terms of being able to contribute to the world in a very positive way.
I did get the opportunity to observe, albeit somewhat short, over at the rotunda. It was really encouraging and pleasing to see, as the Leader of the Opposition and the Premier have pointed out, new Canadians being sworn in. When you take a look at the faces and the individuals themselves who participated, we are in fact very fortunate to have people from all over the world participating in a very significant way in our economy, our social fabric and every other aspect of life within Canada.
With those few words, Madam Speaker, we again pay tribute to the fine work that the United Nations has done.
* (1430)
Vincent Massey Collegiate--Project
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, may I have leave for a nonpolitical statement?
Madam Speaker: Does the honourable Minister of Justice have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]
Mrs. Vodrey: Madam Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the students and the staff of Vincent Massey Collegiate in Fort Garry for their project, The Arts and the Environment, which they have recently opened. This project's purpose was to capitalize on areas of the school which had the potential to serve as vital living space, areas within the courtyard and also a small alcove just off the courtyard area.
The project took place during July and August of this year. It was students who did the work of this project, the planning and also the work that it took to develop the project.
The project had three functions. It was to develop in the courtyard area a place to showcase native plants of the Prairies and to allow student interaction in this comfortable area where they could also look at some of the wonders of our prairie plant life. The area also would make reference to Japanese culture because of the ties through the school's exchange program and also it would provide a way to feature art work by students and by local and international artists.
I was very pleased that there was just wonderful co-operation from the community. That co-operation was forged by the students and the staff of Vincent Massey Collegiate, and a large number of community members representing business interests and people who are just generally interested in the school were there to participate in the opening.
The project, Madam Speaker, is a tribute to its planners, to those who developed it during the summer months and to those who will care for it in the future. I know that it will stand for future generations of students to care for and also to enjoy. Thank you.
Charleswood Bridge Opening
Mr. Gerry McAlpine (Sturgeon Creek): Do I have leave, Madam Speaker, to make a nonpolitical statement?
Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for Sturgeon Creek have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]
Mr. McAlpine: Today, the sun shone in sunny St. James and in Charleswood as the government members along with members of our--my colleagues and members of the city, councillors, along with the mayor were able to participate with the community--
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Point of Order
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, an item that has been in dispute in this Legislature I do not think is a nonpolitical statement, with the greatest of respect. This is a matter of political disagreement in this Legislature, and has been in the past, about the government paying so high an amount for this capital facility and the issues raised. I certainly know the government would be at the opening and cutting the ribbon, but I think we should be very careful about nonpolitical statements. They should be nonpolitical.
Hon. Jim Ernst (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, on the same point of order, I take some exception to the comments of the Leader of the Opposition.
I think what you have here today is the member for Sturgeon Creek proud of an event that occurred in his constituency today, that for the first time there has been a private-public partnership between the City of Winnipeg and a private contractor with respect to a project such as this. There is nothing political about it at all.
Madam Speaker, people may wish to determine whether they would have or would not have supported a project. The fact of the matter is the project is there, completed, done. The politics of it are over. The day is the day for the people of the city of Winnipeg to be able to use that facility, and I think the member for Concordia is out of order with his comments.
Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): On the same point of order, Madam Speaker, I would point out that, first of all, nonpolitical statements are made by leave of this House. We have had rulings in the House, including by the previous Speaker, on the question of nonpolitical statements.
I totally reject the suggestion from the government House leader that simply because something is built it is no longer a political issue. I would suggest anyone who knows the background with this particular bridge knows that there are a lot of political questions that have been asked and will continue to be asked about the bridge, and I do not think the member meant any offence.
I appreciate the spirit it was made in, but I would suggest that if we do wish to have comment on this, it might have been more appropriate perhaps if the minister brought in a ministerial statement, because under those circumstances, we can then comment on the ministerial statement, but we are in a very difficult position here because not only would I suggest this is not nonpolitical, it places us in a difficult position because, quite frankly, I think a number of us would like to then comment on this statement, which I feel is a political statement if it continues.
What I would suggest, and I would urge first of all, Madam Speaker, that you take this matter under advisement and perhaps bring it back, and then at that time, if the determination is this is not a political statement--but members opposite should realize this is nonpolitical statements by leave of the House and, quite frankly, anybody who thinks the Charleswood Bridge is not a political issue I think has not been looking at the circumstances.
I do not believe the member meant any disrespect to the House. I believe the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) raised this more in the spirit of nonpolitical statements. I would suggest you take it under advisement, and if you rule that it is a non--[interjection]
If I can just complete my--[interjection]
Madam Speaker: Order, please. This is not a time for debate. A point of order has been raised. It is a serious matter. I have heard from members on both sides of the House relative to the issue. I will take the matter under advisement and report back to the House.
I would just remind all honourable members that in the spirit of co-operation, this would be an excellent time to look at the whole area of our rules, and this is one area that I know House leaders have had--we have had discussion on previously and may be an opportunity to further that discussion.
Committee Changes
Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): Madam Speaker, I have some committee changes.
I move, seconded by the member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Economic Development--this is for the Tuesday, October 24, 10 a.m. sitting: the member for Emerson (Mr. Penner) for the member for Pembina (Mr. Dyck).
This change was moved by leave in the committee and is now being moved to be properly recorded in the official records of the House.
I move, seconded by the member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Law Amendments be amended as follows: the member for River Heights (Mr. Radcliffe) for the member for Gladstone (Mr. Rocan).
Motions agreed to.