Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, earlier this week I asked the Premier (Mr. Filmon) about cancellations of heart surgery at the Health Sciences Centre due to a lack of beds at the ICU at the same Health Sciences Centre. I asked the minister how many operations were cancelled last week. Could the minister please inform Manitobans how many surgical procedures were cancelled in heart surgery last week as a result of the lack of beds in the intensive care unit at the Health Sciences Centre?

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Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): As I told the Leader of the Opposition in answer to previous questions, Dr. Luis Oppenheimer, head of surgery for the city of Winnipeg, and the Deputy Minister of Health, Dr. John Wade, as well as the leadership of the cardiac program are meeting. They are meeting, as a matter of fact, today, to address the issue of cancellations of surgeries.

But all of this is being done against the backdrop of increased funding for the cardiac program at both Health Sciences Centre and St. Boniface General Hospital to the extent that in the last four years the numbers of surgeries has increased very, very dramatically in Manitoba from 523 surgeries in 1993-94 to a minimum of 1,000 surgeries this year, so there is a lot of activity going on in that area, and any cancellations due to emergencies presenting and that sort of thing, we are attempting to make sure that as little disruption as possible occurs in the system.

Mr. Doer: Over the last five years, the government has promised a solution to these problems. We have tabled material in 1992 talking about the situation. We tabled a memo last year, in 1995, talking about the ICU situation, and every year this government promises to do something about something that they have been warned about for the last six years.

I would like to ask the minister, how many surgeries--and he has not answered the question about heart surgery--have been cancelled today and are predicted to be cancelled in vascular surgery and abdominal surgery again this week because there are no beds at the Health Sciences Centre in the ICU unit? Of course, the minister knows that his cuts have resulted in the reduction in beds. What is the impact on patient care and how many surgeries have been cancelled?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, while I acknowledge, as occurred during the time when the Leader of the Opposition was in government in Manitoba, cancellation of surgeries occurred from time to time then and they occur from time to time now. This is not a positive thing, not something we want to see happen, but the honourable Leader of the Opposition referred to solutions to problems.

Well, for hundreds and hundreds of Manitobans, year after year, the solution to the problem has clearly been coronary artery bypass surgery. As I pointed out to the honourable member, in 1993, we performed 523 of them in Manitoba; in 1994-95, we performed 594; in 1995-96, there were 729 and there will be a minimum of a thousand of them this year. In 1995, additional funding amounting to $941,000 for the Health Sciences Centre and $894,000 for St. Boniface General Hospital was made available. In 1996-97, this additional funding was incorporated into the global budgets of these two facilities.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, I asked the minister on Monday and again today, how many surgeries have been cancelled because of the lack of ICU beds at the Health Sciences Centre? I would hope after four days this minister could give the people of this province, Mr. Kowalyk and other families today that had cancellations of surgery of their loved ones at the Health Sciences Centre because of his lack of action, I was hoping today he could give us some specific answers.

I would like to ask the minister--and he heard similar testimony with presentations with Bill 49; he heard people on the floor level of the hospitals saying the same thing as he is hearing from us today in this Legislature--when is he going to fulfill the promise that he made in 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995 and in 1996 to have a plan to deal with beds in the ICU unit and other units so people can get surgery when surgeons are scheduled and staff are there to take those surgeries for our patients?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, as I said to the honourable Leader of the Opposition, discussions are underway today, as a matter of fact, as a result of concerns that have arisen with respect to cancellation of surgeries. Discussions are happening with the leadership of surgery in the city of Winnipeg and the leadership of the cardiac program, headed by Dr. Bill Lindsay, who has returned from the United States to provide leadership to us in the city of Winnipeg and for all of Manitobans.

The honourable member makes suggestions that the government has not been responsive to the growing need for coronary artery bypass surgery, and I point out to the honourable member--I do not think he heard me before--in 1993, there were 523 performed in Manitoba; in 1994-95, there were 594; in '95-96, there were 729 and there will be a minimum of a thousand of them this year, Madam Speaker.

I can go over for the honourable member again the additional dollars built into the budgets for the cardiac program, which have become a permanent addition to the budget for those programs.

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Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, the allegations about Holiday Haven that occurred this week in the House are not the first time that allegations have been made about Holiday Haven. There have been many. As recently as two years ago, a family whose mother had her arm broken for five days and it was not diagnosed made a complaint to the department and the department promised that that complaint would be dealt with and the situation would improve and, obviously, it has not.

My question to the minister is, what guarantees will the minister give to the families and individuals of the complaints that have come in and will be coming in, amounting in the dozens, that these complaints will be investigated and will be acted upon?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): I gave the honourable member assurances yesterday about concerns that have arisen with respect to the Holiday Haven personal care home. I told the honourable member that indeed issues have been made known to the department.

The honourable member indicated yesterday his willingness to co-operate and to make information available, as he wants to see to it that no one should feel intimidated or under any pressure about this. The honourable member, of course, does not feel that kind of pressure and it is appropriate that he does not, and it is appropriate that he bring forward whatever information that he has to share so that we can continue as a department to address the issues at Holiday Haven with the management of that personal care home.

We have asked the personal care home to retain a consultant to assist in solving the problems and to report back to the department by the end of November so that we can correct whatever deficiencies exist.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, is the minister not concerned that these complaints would include complaints from other parts of the minister's department, from other nursing homes, from Grace Hospital, from Deer Lodge hospital, from the Public Trustee? Is the minister not concerned that in fact management at Holiday Haven is in fact one of the major parts of the problem?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, of course we are concerned about the care provided to vulnerable fellow Manitobans who reside in personal care homes all across the province. Of course we are concerned, and that is why we have put into place the measures that are being put into place to ensure that whatever deficiencies exist are corrected.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, how is it that two years after the minister's much publicized report on personal care homes that recommended mandatory accreditation and a system of resolving and dealing with complaints, we still have these kinds of problems that have to come out in this Legislature before they get acted upon?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, the honourable member is incorrect. The visits were made by Manitoba Health to the facility on October 3 and October 25, long before the honourable member decided that this was an important matter.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Madam Speaker, yesterday, once again, in Question Period we received another conflicting version of the events surrounding the recommendations to privatize MTS from the Premier (Mr. Filmon).

I want to ask perhaps the Minister responsible for MTS questions in regard to that, because we have raised concerns, obviously, about the role of the investment brokers who got paid to look at this decision. I want to quote someone who stated that they were concerned that "We want to get the best advice possible and we want to avoid the advice being driven, as the members say, only on the basis of a decision to sell shares that obviously would be in the interests of a brokerage firm."

I am wondering why that individual, one Mr. Filmon, the Premier, on December 8, 1995, was concerned about the conflict of interest at that time, and now we see a point where after that recommendation was made and MTS is to be sold off, they have no concerns about the obvious conflict of interest with those recommendations.

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister responsible for the administration of The Manitoba Telephone Act): Madam Speaker, very clearly our objective is to get the best value for the government of Manitoba and the citizens of Manitoba in the process of moving MTS to a situation where it can aggressively compete and deliver the services to Manitobans, make the future capital investment with some degree of confidence without weighing on the provincial Treasury of the province of Manitoba.

The window was there. We have had the analysis of experts, and we have the ongoing process that will lead to an offer to Manitobans. We have made it exclusively to Manitobans in the early weeks because we know Manitobans will willingly invest in the Manitoba Telephone System.

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Mr. Ashton: Perhaps I will rephrase my question because obviously the minister either did not hear the question or chose not to answer it.

I asked about the brokerage firms, and I asked about why the Premier (Mr. Filmon), in December, indicated some concern about possible conflict, why this group was paid the money and why now they are going to be benefiting directly from the sale.

I would like to ask a supplementary to the minister in regard to that, if he can indicate when the government made the decision to ignore the more stringent ownership requirements that were put in place in Alberta with the privatization there, when they copied pretty well everything else, except the fact that here in Manitoba they are allowing individual shareholders to own up to 15 percent compared to 5 percent in Alberta and up to 25 percent foreign ownership in Manitoba compared to 10 percent in Alberta. When did they make that decision?

Mr. Findlay: Madam Speaker, in the process of developing the legislation that is tabled in this House.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Thompson, with a final supplementary question.

Mr. Ashton: As a final supplementary--and this, by the way, is based on information from these three brokerage firms--I would like to ask the minister to come clean and explain to Manitobans how he can justify a process of a two-day decision-making process for MTS during which the fate of our telephone system was made, when in fact back in December even the Premier (Mr. Filmon) understood at the time there was a conflict of interest in only listening to the brokerage firms.

When are they going to come clean with the people of Manitoba and explain how they made that decision in two days?

Mr. Findlay: The member also knows that back in August of '95, Crown Corporations Council made serious comments about the risk element of MTS, put us into a position of bringing forth the advisers who we asked to look at the recapitalization of the Manitoba Telephone System and the risks and challenges they faced.

The options they brought forward were many and varied, one of which was recapitalization through a private offering, and it is the one we chose.

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Yesterday we asked the Premier and the Minister of Labour (Mr. Toews) why they have a double standard in appointing mediators depending on whether or not the dispute is in a Conservative minister's constituency. The response was that the evaluation is done on a case-by-case basis. The minister appears to be taking advice, in the case that we raised yesterday, only from the company Westfair Foods.

I want to ask the Minister of Labour to table and to explain to members of this House what criteria he uses in determining when he will appoint a mediator.

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Labour): As indicated in the House yesterday, we look at each situation separately. We analyze the situation, and we come to a conclusion. The deputy makes a recommendation to me, and unless there are very obvious reasons why I should question that, I accept what my officials advise me. I have confidence in those officials to advise me correctly.

Mr. Reid: Well, then, will the minister confirm that the reason he states mediation will not be successful is, as his deputy minister stated yesterday, that the company Westfair Foods is not interested unless the union withdraws its bad-faith bargaining charge to the Labour Board against Westfair Foods. Is that the reason why this minister is not appointing a mediator--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mr. Toews: I thank the member for Transcona for that question as it gives me an opportunity to put my comments on the record. The position that the member for Transcona raises again demonstrates the unique situation in this particular case. There is a unique situation, there are unique concerns, and on the basis of those unique concerns, we make those decisions.

I would say to you, Madam Speaker, that if Westfair Foods and the union agree on a mediator, I will appoint that mediator. If either of the two parties agree on a mediator and cannot determine who that mediator shall be, I will determine that mediator if so requested.

Mr. Reid: Again, another double standard from this Minister of Labour--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member was recognized for a final supplementary question.

Mr. Reid: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Since it appears that the company keeps a veto in this process, I want to ask the minister: Since the main outstanding issue in this dispute is full-time jobs, as the union wants, versus the part-time jobs that the company wants, why is this minister only listening to his Deputy Minister of Labour and to the company when the company states and the minister's staff state that mediation will not be successful because it will add extra financial cost for the Department of Labour? Is that another one of your criteria that--

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Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Toews: Unlike members opposite, Madam Speaker, we do have to examine and analyze all issues, including cost. I might say that in this particular case I would not consider mediation costs to be the sole or even the important factor. As indicated from my answer to the previous question, in fact the government of Manitoba is prepared to appoint a mediator if the two parties recommend that a mediator be appointed. If they will not agree to a mediator, in terms of a specific individual, we in the Department of Labour can do that.

I would be remiss in not stating that there are ongoing meetings with conciliation. Those meetings are taking place. They are certainly welcome to discuss issues further with the Deputy Minister of Labour and I will certainly take all recommendations and make all appropriate considerations in any final determination.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, we have argued in the past that this government has taken somewhat of a hard right turn. Now, once again, we hear some rumours of privatization.

My question is actually for the Minister of Highways and Transportation. We are led to believe or are of the understanding that the Department of Highways is now considering the possibility of privatizing the highway line painting department. I am wondering if the Minister of Highways can respond to this concern.

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, I actually thank the member for that question because we are under incredible challenge in this province to deliver enough dollars to keep our road, bridge infrastructure up to an acceptable standard. We must do whatever we can to minimize our cost to deliver our essential services, and we must analyze the way we can save money in the way we deliver services in the department to maximize the dollar for capital and maintenance.

We put all our tax revenue through the Department of Finance into our roads. The federal government collects $180 million a year out of the roads system in Manitoba and next year will not contribute a significant dollar to Manitoba. He should ask his federal counterparts why they will not share their responsibilities. If they are going to take the tax out, why do they not put some dollars back in the infrastructure replacements?

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Inkster, with a supplementary question.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, to get the minister then to confirm that the Department of Highways is now currently looking to privatize this particular area of the branch, is that what he is saying today?

Mr. Findlay: Staff in the department are going through a lot of analyses of a lot of the ways in which things are done as we go into the next budgetary process, and if I recall right, it was employees who brought that forward to us sometime in the past and it is in some state of discussion within the department. That is all: discussion.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I would ask the Minister of Highways if he can detail for the Chamber in terms of what is next. We have seen the privatization of the signs, now the privatization of the painting.

Can the Minister of Highways tell this House today to what degree is he prepared to privatize his department?

Mr. Findlay: Madam Speaker, we spend in the vicinity of $100 million a year on capital in the highway network of Manitoba. Right now in front of us, driven by municipalities primarily, road users, MLAs, I have $1,100 million of requests, $1,100 million with a hundred a year to serve it. As roads wear out, as bridges reach a point where they cannot carry today's trucks, that grows. I am really disappointed at the member saying, you cannot meet all those demands by changing anything. I mean, he is just really out of touch with the way the world is right now.

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Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): My question is to the Minister of Justice.

Can the minister assure Manitobans that peace officers in her department are vigorously pursuing criminal proceedings against anyone found in possession of concealed or prohibited weapons, whether they be handguns, military assault weapons or even pepper spray?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, the member's question, I believe, relates to police officers in our province and their vigorous work in terms of dealing with what may be an illegal weapon or an illegally held weapon, and I have no reason to believe that that is not the case.

Mr. Mackintosh: I was referring to peace officers in her department.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Could the minister possibly explain why the proposed metal detector security system at the Law Courts Building will apparently pardon or excuse persons found with weapons at the doors by providing so-called amnesty bins, and I quote from the notice from the Sheriff's Office: Should users wish to dispose of their weapons prior to entering the complex.

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): The member does highlight another move by this government and the Department of Justice to provide more secure facilities and, yes, there is a bin which is placed there for people to dispose of their weapon. We believe that the security matters will in fact assist Manitobans and people who work and appear in our courthouse to be safer.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, with a final supplementary question.

Mr. Mackintosh: Madam Speaker, I will table the notice from the Sheriff's Office on this issue.

Would the minister tell us what is wrong with this picture? Someone is caught red-handed breaking the Criminal Code, coming into the Law Courts Building, of all places, with, for example, a concealed or stolen handgun, a weapon used in the commission of an offence or an Uzi for that matter, and her department says, leave your gun here in the bin, no questions asked, enjoy your visit. Is the department again refusing to enforce the laws of this land?

Mrs. Vodrey: The member continues to make allegations which are unfounded. He adds to his list every day he gets on his feet regarding unfounded allegations.

There are court cases which occur within the Law Courts on a regular basis and evidence gathered in relation to that. This is an effort on behalf of Courts to make our Law Courts in fact a safer place to be and it deals with concerns that are concerns of the public, concerns of people who appear in the Law Courts and also people who work there on a regular basis.

A new security system does not always meet with the approval of the member opposite as do many of the very tough measures that this government has taken; he tends to be unsupportive.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, on June 11, 1995, we requested an FOI on all contracts with Brenda Leipsic or Leipsic Communications. One month later we received information that there had been one contract. We knew this was incorrect so we appealed for further information. We got no information, so we appealed to the Ombudsman. Finally, in the House we were told there was not one but three contracts, mainly through the Department of Natural Resources.

My question is to the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Driedger) in whose Sustainable Development Unit Ms. Leipsic works. Why did it take four months to find out what contracts were let involving a person who works daily in the department, in an office in the department? What was being hidden?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): I responded earlier to this question, so I will respond today as well. I presume, and as I had said in discussion with the member, there were two different departments that were in fact funding the contracts and that may have accounted for the confusion.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Crescentwood, with a supplementary question.

Mr. Sale: I want to ask the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Driedger), whose officer, Bill Podolsky, and Director of Administration, Wolf Boehm, reported to this House through The Freedom of Information Act, why was Ms. Leipsic paid at the same time from June 15 to November 30 under two separate contracts at the same time for $250 a day each?

Mr. Cummings: That does not conform with any information that I have, and I will certainly review the information the member is bringing forward.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, what we have before us is more evidence of the good stewardship of this minister, when a former president of the Conservative Party--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member was recognized for a final supplementary question.

Mr. Sale: My question, Madam Speaker, to the minister is, is this more good evidence of the stewardship of this minister when a former president of the Conservative Party is paid over $111,000 on various contracts plus some $16,000 in salary to raise money for the government?

Mr. Cummings: Madam Speaker, the member knows full well that the contracts were tendered, as it was indicated to him before. As a matter of fact, one of the responsibilities of this individual was to do the organizational work and provide corporate assistance to fund the Sustainable Development awards process so that it was not a burden to the taxpayer, a project that she was quite successful at.

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Natural Resources.

Yesterday this minister said that he does not have to justify the expenses of his publicly paid employees. He also claimed that he had no problem with what his deputy minister has claimed.

Why is it that this minister is now responsible for investigating expenses that he himself approved when he knows the proper course of action is to have the records reviewed by the Provincial Auditor?

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, over the last period of time requests have been received under The Freedom of Information Act related to expenses of my deputy minister. These requests were received and they have been replied to, and based on that information, the issue was raised in the House yesterday related to the expenses. I have since had the opportunity to review the expenses, and I feel comfortable that they comply within the government guidelines.

However, in order to assure impartiality, I have written the Clerk of the Executive Council and have asked him to go through all the bills and to make recommendations, if required.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Dauphin, with a supplementary question.

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Given the minister's obvious conflict and bias in this situation, why is he so scared to send this mess to the Auditor?

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, it is exactly by this insinuation that I have basically written to the Clerk of the Executive Council, asked them to review all the expenses of my deputy and to make recommendations if required. I will wait on that response until I deal with the issue further.

Mr. Struthers: Madam Speaker, why will the Minister of Natural Resources not follow precedents set in the '80s where, in a similar case, the Auditor was requested to look into a matter such as this one which ended up having a former head of the MPIC fired by a previous government? Why does this government not have the integrity to do the same thing?

Mr. Driedger: Madam Speaker, I will table the letter that I basically have sent to the Clerk of the Executive Council. I would assume that, if recommendations are required, it should go to the Provincial Auditor, that the Clerk of the Executive Council is going to make that recommendation, then I would have no difficulty with that.

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Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, the Clerk of the Executive Council reports to the Premier (Mr. Filmon), the deputy minister reports to the Premier; both are hired and fired by the Premier. The Premier, in this House, defended the decisions yesterday in the House and so did the minister. We respect their right to defend those decisions.

Why do we not send this issue to an independent person, a person who is independent of cabinet who reports directly to the public and this Legislature? So I would like to ask the Acting Premier to just do the right thing today and send these expenses to the Auditor and we can have an independent review of whether the Deputy Minister of Natural Resources used proper judgment in the exercise of his expense filings here in the province of Manitoba.

Hon. James Downey (Deputy Premier): Madam Speaker, I believe the minister has dealt with it adequately, indicating as he has tabled the letter that he is sending to the Clerk of the Council. The Clerk of the Council is asked to report back, and if it is essential to have other services or other activities brought to that investigation, he is free to do so.

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Madam Speaker, I would like to this afternoon ask the Minister of Highways why there are advertisements being put in The Pas paper advertising for work, particularly snowplowing, work that is normally being done by staff of the Department of Highways in The Pas.

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, the department has the responsibility to look after snow clearing on provincial roads and will find ways and means to do it most cost-effectively, and the department may choose to do it with using private contractors, nothing unusual about that. It has been done here and there all over the province on a regular basis in conjunction with department resources. There is always a combination of department resources and private resources that are used for maintenance of roads and, particularly, snow clearing.

Mr. Lathlin: Madam Speaker, could I ask the Minister of Highways what communities are going to be affected and, also, could he perhaps advise the House how many employees are going to be affected in this, what appears to be privatization of the maintenance of roads in The Pas?

Mr. Findlay: Well, Madam Speaker, through the Estimates process they had lots of discussion on the way we deliver services. What we are doing in that instance he is talking about, I do not know the specific example, but I know in the general context, as I have said earlier, of how we clear snow on roads, there is a combination of using employees in the department and the private sector in the various relationships depending on the severity of the snowstorm in an ongoing process. So whether employees doing the work are from the department or the private sector, there will still be, I am sure, employees out of the town of Dauphin.

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Madam Speaker, on another question for the Minister of Health. About two months ago or six weeks ago, I wrote a letter to the Minister of Health regarding a Mrs. Amelia Young [phonetic] from The Pas who had apparently spent four to six weeks at the Health Sciences Centre and about a month ago was discharged from the hospital, and for over a month now she has been staying at the St. Regis Hotel here in Winnipeg because apparently she was told that she could not go back; she is a dialysis patient. She could not go back to The Pas because there are no services available in The Pas.

Would the minister confirm that please?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): I will refresh my recollection of this matter and report to the honourable member on the present status.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): I want to ask a further question to the Minister responsible for the Manitoba Telephone System.

I want to ask the Minister responsible for MTS if he could perhaps explain to the Legislature if in fact the decision to privatize MTS is part of a much bigger plan by the government, and if he can confirm that the Premier (Mr. Filmon), on December 8, in response to questions about MTS, indicated that he had told the Chamber of Commerce that, quote: We are going to be evaluating the operations of all our Crown corporations to see whether they are appropriate under today's circumstances.

I would like to ask, therefore, whether in fact we are seeing the thin edge of the wedge with MTS and in fact if the Premier himself has not already confirmed that we are going to be looking potentially at seeing Hydro and MPIC privatized in the same undemocratic manner they are selling off MTS.

Mr. Glen Findlay (Minister responsible for the administration of The Manitoba Telephone Act): Madam Speaker, I think it is imperative that government in every function it is involved in review how it is doing business and how it might be best done in the future.

I think the member should pay attention to Saskatchewan, which has gone through a complete review of all its Crown corporations.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Minister responsible for the Manitoba Telephone System, to complete his response.

Mr. Findlay: Madam Speaker, I speak only for the Manitoba Telephone System, which is now in an area where 70 percent of its revenue is in competition. We have to be very careful that we use scarce government resources only where it is necessary. We very firmly believe the Manitoba Telephone System is very, very capable of continuing to deliver the same high-quality service at the same affordable rates to Manitobans from now on into the future as a corporation standing on its own two feet.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Time for Oral Questions has expired.