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Madam Speaker: The hour being 5 p.m. and time for Private Members' Business.

"WHEREAS Winnipeg has developed a continent-wide reputation as a merchandise distribution centre; and

"WHEREAS Winnipeg lies at the centre of North America, connected to the major heart of the continent by a vast transportation infrastructure, including rail, highway and air links; and

"WHEREAS the global air cargo market has grown at a rate of 6 percent for the last five years; and

"WHEREAS countries such as Japan, Singapore, and Korea will pay a premium price for high quality fresh produce that is grown in Manitoba, increasing exports of value-added products made in Manitoba; and

"WHEREAS Winnport Logistics Ltd. has published a development plan to make the Winnipeg Airport the world leader in the air cargo business; and

"WHEREAS this project may result in 5,000 jobs and $500 million in economic activity for Winnipeg and Manitoba.

"THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that this Assembly encourage all levels of government to be supportive of this proposal that could provide tremendous economic advantages to the city of Winnipeg and all Manitobans."

Motion presented.

Mr. McAlpine: Madam Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to rise today to introduce the resolution on Winnport, which is an exciting economical venture that Winnipeg and the Province of Manitoba, as well as the federal government, are working in partnership to develop this very worthwhile and futuristic development for the benefit of all people in this country, especially Winnipeg and Manitoba.

The idea to develop Winnport came with the recognition in private and public sector studies that an opportunity existed to develop Winnipeg as an air cargo gateway and a multimodule distribution centre. The major factors of this opportunity were Winnipeg's advantages of location on the polar flight routes for international air cargo traffic, the close trucking proximity to the key Midwest markets, the excellent infrastructure such as the 24-hour operational airport, and an experienced and established network of transportation companies.

I think we take too lightly the benefits and advantages that we in Winnipeg have, especially centred around the airport with the number of trucking companies, as an example, with head offices. I think there is something like nine head offices in this country that are stationed here right in Winnipeg within that close proximity of the airport.

I think, Madam Speaker, that really bodes well for the business community and the transportation economy that Manitoba and the city of Winnipeg offer to this country and also to North America, especially when we consider the trucking transportation that travels north and south, as well as east and west, and beyond. I think it is something to be really proud of.

Winnport is built on a diverse partnership of experienced operators with established distribution networks. I think we have a wealth of knowledge and a wealth of ambitious people who are going to provide the opportunity to make this work. I think that we are sitting in the strongest position in order to be able to achieve these goals.

Winnport has received strong support from the Government of Canada, as well as the Province of Manitoba, and the municipal governments of Winnipeg and Rosser, Manitoba, which is to the northwest of the city. Certainly, they are partners with the city, the province, and the federal representatives.

The government of Manitoba provided financial assistance to Winnport on a cost-shared basis which was used for market research, logistics analysis and strategic planning. The province is also represented on the board of Winnport Logistics. I think that that is really important in terms of the liaison that works between Winnport Logistics and the Department of Industry, Trade and Tourism, which plays an important role in all this development, to ensure that all partners and those who are working with this on this very worthwhile project, are well informed and kept apprised of what can be done and what has to be done.

This, along with the tremendous community support, demonstrates that Winnipeg is a gateway for the future, and that we are able to offer the co-operative and wide-ranging services needed for international air cargo transportation and distribution in the 21st Century.

I think that when we look at this in terms of the future, if we go back in history, we also recall what Winnipeg was initially built on with the warehousing back in the turn of the century, when this was going to be the distribution capital of the world. Then, for some reason or another, they developed the Suez Canal, which we ended up on the short end of. But I think that this is a real opportunity. I think that finally there may be that opportunity for Winnipeg to actually take advantage of the many benefits and the many things that we have to offer for this concept.

Winnport's international air cargo service will provide expedited air cargo lift between Asia and North America. By communicating closely with the freight-forwarding community, Winnport is tailoring the forward or direct service to meet the unique and specific needs of its freight forwarder customers. The benefits that an international air cargo service out of Winnipeg will provide include such things as the dedicated 747 main deck freighter lift on seven weekly frequencies, service between growing air freight markets in China, Singapore, Malaysia, Japan and North America--just to name a few--scheduled direct airport-to-airport service, guaranteed capacity at guaranteed competitive rates, expedited North American ground distribution, and leading-edge air cargo information system with real-time reservations, booking and tracking.

Madam Speaker, I think that there has been a considerable amount of expertise that has gone into this, and the people who are playing a major role in this are the companies that have a major stake in all aspects of this project.

Winnport's future plans extend far beyond the air freighter services. On lands adjacent to the Winnipeg International Airport, which includes the constituency of Sturgeon Creek, there are other areas along the west side of the airport between Sturgeon Road and Sharp Boulevard, as an example, where the airport entrance is in the former Air Command Headquarters. There is a parcel of land in there that is open and ready for development. Certainly, with the access to the tarmac on the west side of that, this vacant land, industrial land, certainly offers that opportunity for future expansion, with the accessibility to the airport, and to the warehousing, that will be developed there if this should proceed. I would think that it is not "if this going to proceed." I am very optimistic in saying that "when this does proceed" is probably more accurate.

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Some of the advantages of having a cargo centre here in the centre of this foreign trade zone would include the abundant, competitively priced warehouse space that we have in this city; built-to-suit landsites, which I referenced in the Murray Park area of Sturgeon Creek; the immediate access to North America and international air, road, and rail links; the economies of scale and reliable delivery of the time-sensitive products through centralized warehousing; the performance of secondary production activities; the customs-friendly foreign trade zone-like environment for duty-free treatment of goods; and the administrative time and cost-efficiencies of utilizing Winnport for guidance through Canada's duty and tax deferral programs. Finally, onsite access to experienced logistic support service providers is also a benefit of having a cargo centre and foreign trade zone.

Now, with regard to the economic opportunities as a result of the Winnport initiative, preliminary economic modelling suggests that approximately 500 jobs would be created in the short term of two to five years, Madam Speaker, and, in the long term, it really is staggering to expect that a total of 6,000 jobs will be created in the province of Manitoba with an additional 4,000 jobs in the rest of Canada just from this one initiative, this one project.

So we are talking about a significant impact on the economy not only of this province, but on the economy of the whole country. Winnport is also expected to generate approximately $595 million in GDP and $105 million civic, provincial and federal taxes. The greater economic benefits will be reaped over the longer term as further value-added activity supplements early service and land developments, and I think that when we talk about the transportation or the value added just in our hog producing that we have in terms of our markets in the Asian markets with the amount of hog and even our canola and durum wheat for the pastas and things like that, the value-added markets that are available to us, then to take advantage of the transportation through this Winnport initiative is something that will be almost unmeasurable in terms of the economic benefits as far as this province is concerned.

Our government and other levels of government recognize the great economic potential of the Winnport concept for the development not only of Winnipeg but of supplier and producers in other parts of the province. In terms of talking about rural Manitobans, the farmers, the farm community, the hog and the vegetable growers and the wheat farmers and things like that, Madam Speaker, I think that we really cannot underestimate the potential of this project for all Manitoba and, as I said, for the entire country. I think that when we do this we certainly have to manage a lot of the things that we are doing, and we can learn from the aspects of what we have now.

I know that with the airport being in the community of Sturgeon Creek, the runway 1836, as an example, is the one that comes right in over the constituency office of Sturgeon Creek on Mount Royal and Ness. You look up and when the airplanes are coming in, you can almost count the rivets on the bottom of the aircraft.

One of the things that we have to be aware of is the fact that we have to manage these things very well because, for the residents that are in those communities--I think that, you know, the member for Inkster referenced the present M.P. for the area, and, you know, I just want the member for Inkster to know that this member caused me no end of trouble with his recommendations in terms of the air traffic that was coming in and out of the city, which he made very political and left the people who are representing the constituency of Sturgeon Creek and Kirkfield Park and Assiniboia, left them out of the whole process because he wanted to make this a Liberal initiative on his part in terms of the air traffic and the committees that he was working on.

So I think that what I am saying here, Madam Speaker, is that this Winnport thing is too big an initiative to make political, and I hope the member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) will talk to his cousin, the member for Winnipeg-St. James to impress upon him how important that is.

The government of Manitoba definitely does support this resolution, and I would urge all members here in the Legislature to provide an all-party endorsement of the implementation of Winnport, not only for the city of Winnipeg but for all Manitobans and this great country that we live in. Thank you.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, I am also pleased to rise and address some of the issues that are contained in this resolution. I think that the first thing to put on the record is that we have met with the Winnport executives on several occasions, in 1992-93, and, by really a pure chance, we met with them this morning for about an hour and a half, about 10 of our caucus members and staff, so that was a very useful meeting.

Our party has been on the record as being supportive of the Winnport initiative from the outset. We have spoken in support of it at a number of occasions and through a number of press releases. There are, without any doubt, significant gains to be made from the integrated development of air, rail and road transport, and in a world in which computers are typically assembled from parts made in perhaps five, 10, 15 different countries all producing components for assembly, this kind of integrated logistical network is clearly something that is part of the future, and Winnipeg would like very much to be part of that future. So I think that it is very clear that we are supportive of the Winnport project.

I think, though, that we also have to be realistic about what is happening around the world in regard to the attempts on the part of places like Winnipeg, and to a lesser extent Calgary and other cities that are not part of the current logistical system for air transport that are trying to break into that network. I think that it is fair to say, Madam Speaker, and to say through you to the proposer of this motion, that a few years ago Winnport was filled with optimism that, to perhaps use a bad pun, the sky would be blue and the flying would be smooth. I will just quote one of the people we met with this morning who said a few years ago we were standing on the diving board looking at the water and it was very smooth and clear and now we are in the water and it is kind of choppy.

The choppiness of that water has to do with a couple of things, but it has to do fundamentally with the very, very rapid developments in the whole field of air transport, air freight and the industrial patterns of world development, which are changing the logistical chains of supply on a very rapid basis. So what looked like a solid direction three or four years ago has been overtaken, not by any lack of skill or competence on the part of those putting forward the plans, but simply by the kind of rapidity of change that is out there in the world.

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I think the member opposite, who along with our member for St. James (Ms. Mihychuk) has an immediate concern with the airport and the developments around the airport because of the nature of the two constituencies involved, has followed this issue very closely. Obviously, as Industry critic, I am really glad when any members follow an issue of this kind of complexity closely and advocate on behalf of Manitobans who would like to invest and to work and to be part of a major development.

So I am sure that the member opposite knows that the initial hope in this Winnport development was that major air freight providers would come on stream to work with Winnport to provide the air freight component of this proposed development. For example, Winnport did approach Air Canada and tried to come to an agreement about Air Canada providing the freighters and the pilots and the crews and the aircraft, and that agreement apparently, according to the meeting we had this morning, was very far advanced when it became plain that Air Canada wanted to control the logistical side, as well. Ultimately, at the end of the day, the two parties were unable to come to an agreement because I think it seemed to the Winnport people like Air Canada was simply trying to supplant the Winnport project and, in effect, co-opt it into Air Canada's air freight arrangements.

So, unfortunately, Air Canada did not come forward, and that is a pity because Air Canada has a base already in Winnipeg. It is a Canadian company. It is a major employer. It has a worldwide reputation of quality service and quality maintenance and could have provided a great deal of assurance to potential shippers that a quality operator was at the heart of the Winnport program as it got off the ground to begin with.

Winnport also approached another Canadian airline, which, due to its own internal difficulties, was not in a position to respond very positively. They then approached a number of other international shippers who operated aircraft, and, unfortunately, after a lot of work they came up empty in terms of any shipper who would be prepared to redirect or reroute their existing air freighters through our city as a gateway to the North American market. The consequence of that difficulty--and I do not call it a failure because I think the Winnport people worked very hard to make it come true, and I certainly attach no blame to the fact that it did not.

But the implications of an inability to come to an agreement are very significant implications. They are, in the first place, that clearly Air Canada did not see sufficient advantage to this that they could be persuaded to come on stream with a major support for the Winnport proposal. So Air Canada, perhaps for its own internal competitive reasons, perhaps with a lack of foresight, for whatever reasons, they would not come on stream, but, Madam Speaker, neither would any other major carrier in the world that was approached. That points to the fundamental difficulty that Winnport faces in making a go of this proposal; that is, they are really asking existing patterns of logistics to shift, to take into account the value-added opportunities in Winnipeg.

We can see those advantages. They can see those advantages. The mathematics are sound, and I am convinced of that as they are, that the freight costs work, that Winnipeg works as a gateway both for backhauling and for the primary distribution of loads coming in. But it is very clear that other shippers are not convinced that they can make enough of a gain on the moving of their freight patterns to become based in Winnipeg and use Winnipeg as a hub.

So what that has done, Madam Speaker, is it has pushed Winnport into the situation where it is attempting to become a charter operator through a contract with Kelowna Flightcraft, which is the operator for Greyhound, and the proposal, which was in the paper a couple of weeks ago and on which we spoke this morning, was that they would charter two 747-200s from Kelowna Flightcraft and Kelowna would become the shipper on behalf of Winnport. This, in turn, poses some very severe challenges for Winnport because it means that Winnport has to, through the federal government, secure air access and landing rights in the four countries in which they want to be active--Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan and Shanghai in China.

Now, those of the government side in particular, I guess, have had current experience with the whole question of open skies and the issue of international version of open skies, know just how torturous the negotiations can be with countries who are seeking to protect their freight firms and their industrial interests when a new company that has never been part of the international air freight world seeks entry into that market. I think you can imagine the difficulties that they are likely to face.

The executives at Winnport were very frank with us about that this morning that the fact that Air Canada did not come on board has posed a very serious problem for them. They have begun negotiations through the federal government--of course, it has to be conducted through Foreign Affairs--and they are hopeful that the first contacts with China will begin in the next couple of weeks. I hope that is the case, and I hope they are in contact with the Chinese official who was here in the Chamber today.

Madam Speaker, I think that while all parties in this House have publicly and quite frequently endorsed the Winnport proposal, we should not be debating it today in some kind of Pollyanna hope that it is going to quickly come to pass in the way that it was first thought of a few years ago when it seemed that this development could take place quickly. So, Madam Speaker, while I am quite supportive of the resolution, I am concerned about the last WHEREAS that if there are ever 5,000 jobs out of this proposal, even the Winnport people themselves say that this is 20 years from now; that is, in the next two or three or four years, we might see 200 jobs if they are successful in getting landing rights in the four countries involved. Certainly we hope they are successful, but we should be aware that the opportunity here at this point is a much more modest one than we hoped we would have before us a couple of years ago when this was first being discussed.

This, of course, raises another issue and that is the scale of public investment that is appropriate in this enterprise at this time, and the scale of public investment which is anticipated is in the millions of dollars. It is in the tens of millions of dollars, in fact, and there are a variety of ways in which this would be put forward. It could be equity, it could be guarantees, it could be in-kind service provision, but it is very substantial no matter how we slice it.

I think all of us in this Chamber should be concerned about the sequencing of the development, because until landing rights and air rights are secured in the four countries that they hope to use as their launching pad, I think it is fair to say that this initiative, important as it is, is on hold. So one of the questions that we would certainly be asking today is what is the government doing to bring appropriate pressure to bear on the federal government to make this issue a priority for the negotiations that are going on in the four countries, of which I have spoken, because this is a federal government responsibility.

At this point, Winnport hangs on a thread and the thread is the negotiating process with the four countries under the direction of the minister of external trade, Minister of External Affairs, rather. We all know there is a federal election coming. We all know that Air Canada is a player in this issue and that Air Canada is doing what big companies do when they think that the edges of their trade might be infringed upon by a new company that has a good idea. So I think that there are some responsibilities on all of us, but particularly on the government and on the acting leader of the Liberal Party in the House, the third party in the House, to bring to bear some significant pressure on the federal government to make this a priority.

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Winnport made the case with us, Madam Speaker, that they do not think they are cutting anybody's market. They think they are creating new jobs, new opportunities, new ways of supplying goods and services into North America, that they are not threatening Air Canada at all, but Air Canada's response has not been particularly helpful or positive.

So I call on members opposite and on the member of the Liberal Party, who I believe is going to address this motion, to use all good efforts, as we will do, to move this initiative forward, but we should do so recognizing that there are very serious difficulties with this initiative at this time. We should not be holding out huge promises and huge hopes until the issue of landing rights is secured, and that could be anywhere from one to two years from now, Madam Speaker. I thank you for the opportunity to put these remarks on the record.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, I, too, wanted to put a few words on the record with respect to this particular resolution. You know, yesterday we had a resolution which was fairly positive. In fact, we voted on it and passed it, as all members of the Chamber had supported the essence of the resolution. Again today, the member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine) brings forward, in fact, another resolution which could receive the support of all members of the Chamber.

I would be quite surprised if, in fact, there were any members of the Legislative Assembly that did not, in principle, support the concept of Winnport because it has the potential, as the resolution points out, to add so much more to the economy of Winnipeg. The entire province stands to gain great dividends if, in fact, this gets off the ground. Where, I think, to a certain degree we might differ is that I believe if this is going to work, it is going to be the private sector and the individuals that have been involved to date that are going to make it work. It is going to be their thoughts, their ideas.

The creation of Winnport will be there in the future if, in fact, the community and the business people, in particular, are effective in putting together an excellent project. Hopefully, the political support of local M.P.s, whether it is John Harvard or local MLAs such as the member that has put forward this particular resolution and the support of city councillors and, most importantly, the support of the community as a whole is there, then it will work. Hopefully, we will see that support, but first and foremost, the kinks have to be worked out.

You know, listening very carefully to what the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) was saying brings up a lot of legitimate concerns that do need to be dealt with. I can recall hearing some of the optimistic people a few years ago. They were talking of thousands of jobs, and on paper it looked like it was going to happen, and it was going to happen in a relatively short time span because there will be a competitive edge, if you like, if I can use that phraseology, with respect to the first that get involved in it.

This is where we, I believe, are at a bit of a competitive edge in the sense that we have a group of people who have clustered around from all the different areas of the community to put together an idea that if we are successful getting it off the ground, all Manitobans will receive dividends from it in many different ways. One of the WHEREASes that really sparked an interest on my part, and like the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) and members of his caucus and I am sure members of the government caucus, we had opportunity to meet with representatives from Winnport, and the part that interested me the most was the idea of being able to provide fresh produce abroad.

In fact, I brought the example, and I do not know if it was Nova Scotia or New Brunswick, where they fly virtually live lobster overseas in a 747. I think there are just wonderful opportunities that could be there for us, and it is important as elected officials of whatever political stripe that we give of our time and share our thoughts and ideas with those that might be interested in lobbying or lobbying for different forms of support in some areas with the feds. For example, it might be trying to get those rights to land with the province. It might be with some sort of infrastructure money which could again be tied into the feds. With the city it might be zonings of different sorts. There is no doubt going to be a very significant need to have all partners involved.

I met, Madam Speaker, just I guess it would be about a week ago, 10 days ago, with a group of residents that were concerned about the noise issue and any potential impact with noise. The member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine) nods his head in the affirmative. I am sure he has had the same sorts of concerns. One would like to think that all of these things have to be taken into account because, ultimately, the concept of Winnport is, in fact, a good one, and Manitobans would benefit tremendously for that, but that is the reason why, as I say, in essence the resolution in itself, I do not have any problem in terms of giving support to or the party giving support to.

Hopefully, by our indicating that sort of support and making ourselves available, the individuals, in particular Winnport Logistics Ltd. and others, will be able to at least have the moral support, and they might be coming back at some future time asking for more than just moral support, but at least to give that boost, if you like, while at the same time not necessarily creating any sort of false optimism that might be generated. I just say that on a cautionary note.

At the beginning I commented on yesterday's resolution, and we go on to today's resolution, Madam Speaker. It would be nice if, in fact, we could have a good selection of resolutions from all political parties debated and, in fact, voted on. A resolution does not have to receive unanimous support, I believe, in order to ultimately come to a vote. In the last seven and a half years the only resolutions I have ever seen actually come to a vote have been the ones where there has been unanimous support. I personally would have liked to see more debate and ultimate votes on all resolutions, not just the ones that receive unanimous support. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Speaker, I rise to speak in support of the resolution. I, first of all, want to take the opportunity to acknowledge the hard work and effort and the vision of the people who were the initial developers of Winnport, people like Hubert Kleysen, who I think has put a tremendous number of time in, of which he has done so at his own expense. I know that there have been people employed, like Gordon Johnson and Lynn Bishop, who is now in charge of the activities as it relates to Winnport, and I think those are the kinds of people that have been involved on a day-to-day basis and I thank them and acknowledge them for their extremely hard work and effort.

I can assure you, as well, Madam Speaker, that the Department of Highways and Transportation, the Department of Industry, Trade and Tourism, we as a government are strongly supportive of the Winnport initiative. It is a major piece of infrastructure and is a major tool that we need to take us on into the 21st Century to give us the kind of supports that industries need, that high value development industries need, that the movement of product out of the centre of Canada through a Winnport activity is extremely important to the future of our city and our province and the whole economic development activities that we would like to see take place in our province. I want to make it absolutely clear, perfectly clear, that we are strongly supportive and want to see this activity going.

What appears to be happening, Madam Speaker and I would hope that the member for Inkster would pay attention to this, what appears to be lacking to some degree is that roll-up-your-sleeves and get-down-to-work approach by the members of Parliament from the Government of Canada and they speak strongly in support of it. They all do this strong talk as a great activity, but nobody, not one of them, has taken this project on, rolled up their sleeves and become the champion of it.

An Honourable Member: And who has in your government?

Mr. Downey: We have. The Minister of Highways and Transportation, Madam Speaker. The member said who has. We, as a government, have been very aggressive. We have had people very much involved and it takes that at the national level. [interjection] Yes, there have been series of meetings, but somebody has to roll their sleeves up to assist, as the member for Crescentwood has indicated, in getting the legal approvals that are needed to get access to the jurisdictions that we are going to want to fly to. That is what I think it is going to have to take.

There is not any question about this government's support for the initiative and wanting to get the activities going, and there have been ongoing discussions, meetings, but we need the support of the senior government of this country, very strong support and, as I say, it is time for them to roll up their sleeves and get aggressive and help the Hubert Kleysens and the Lynn Bishops and the Gordon Johnsons, who I think have been putting together a good package of material. They have got the basis for what it will take to make it happen, because I can tell you, Madam Speaker, whether it is in the value-added food processing industry, whether it is in the value-added manufacturing industry, there will be the need for the service to provide the linkages that we need to provide the transportation for the manufacturing sector.

Madam Speaker, I should give one example of what can, in fact, happen if a successful operation like this goes ahead. I recently had the opportunity to be in the United Arab Emirates and visited with a new development, and it is basically a similar concept to Winnport. They have developed an airport site which was traditionally or initially a military base that is now a full-fledged industrial development site. In 15 months, I believe they have over 200 manufacturing activities taking place in the park that is adjacent to the airport infrastructure.

They are providing a tremendous service, many hundreds of jobs are being created at that site and I see the same thing can happen right here. In fact, the general manager is an individual who knows Lynn Bishop. Manitoba Trade has taken it upon itself to make sure the right connections are made. The opportunity is there, but we do need, and I am sure that Winnport needs, the support of the senior level of government to help at an international level to help them make the connections and get the regulatory approvals that are needed.

I would think it would be a golden opportunity for the Minister responsible for External Affairs. This would be his absolute forte. This is what should be his No. 1 activity as it relates to bringing home the bacon for the city of Winnipeg. It really is. It is his opportunity to put himself forth as a champion.

An Honourable Member: And then you will vote Liberal.

Mr. Downey: The member said and then I would vote Liberal. No, I would vote for Winnport, you see. What we are supporting in this resolution is Winnport. I do not think it has to be partisan. I do not know of a political party that is opposed to this activity. This is absolutely a nonpartisan issue. This is a development issue that every political party in this province supports. I do not know of a candidate running in the next election that would be in opposition to this initiative.

That is why, I think, it is a good opportunity for the current government to demonstrate clearly that they are anxious to get this job done and show an aggressive move on this front. So I would encourage the member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) to use his political muscle, to use his influence with the federal government to help get to the goal of getting Winnport becoming a reality. I can assure him the Department of Industry, Trade and Tourism and the Department of Highways and Transportation will continue to work aggressively to accomplish that goal, because it is the future for the economic and industrial development of this province.

We can use our imagination in many ways as to the kinds and types of product that can be moved from a facility like this. I just want to further endorse and thank those people who have worked so diligently to this point to get it to the stage that it is at. It does take a lot of hard work. I believe there is an aggressive role for the federal government to play and would invite them to do so.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): I just have a few comments that I would like to share with the members of the House with respect to Winnport. I read the resolution the honourable member opposite has brought forward with respect to Winnport and what it can mean to the city of Winnipeg and to the province of Manitoba, not only for the economy but for the jobs that will be attached with the Winnport project itself. I must admit--as well as my colleague the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) has previously--that the jobs that are showing on this particular resolution are a bit suspect at this time.

I had the opportunity to sit in once again this morning with officials from the Winnport group. The numbers that they were talking about, 5,000 that is showing in this resolution, is a fair way down the road should this project be successful like we hope it would be. Madam Speaker, there are several issues that the members of Winnport raised with us this morning that seem to be creating some difficulties for the group in trying to move forward with the Winnport project. I can remember back to 1992, I believe it was, when this project started. We had the officials from Winnport come to meet with members of our caucus and to brief us on their proposal. At that time, as it does today, the project had in my estimation great merit, and I was quite and still am quite supportive of the project. I would like very much to see this project move forward.

At that time the Winnport group was paddling along, if we might use that analogy, in calm waters. They had not hit the rapids yet. As we see today by the faces of the presenters that came to us today, it appears that they are now in the rapids, that things have become a bit more intense in the negotiations and the debate that is taking place surrounding the Winnport project. They appear very hopeful that the project will move forward but are quite concerned about some of the difficulties and the challenges that they are facing.

One of the things that they did point out to us that seems to be the major stumbling block at this point in time is the difficulties that they are having in securing the landing rights to countries like China, Malaysia and Singapore and Japan, I believe were the four areas that were talked about, that they have anticipated that they may meet some resistance from both Canadian Airlines International and Air Canada with respect to the cargo traffic.

We would hope that the federal government, through the Ministry of Transport, would look very dimly upon any lobby group that would be coming to lobby against Manitoba and Winnipeg achieving the Winnport project so that these particular operations might go forward, because we would not want to see other interests take precedent over what appears to be a very serious project in the best interests of Manitoba.

We want to see that the agriculture products that we produce in this province and the manufactured goods, both areas would be able to move freely into the markets of Asia, as we would hope they would do following announcements that the Minister of Agriculture has made here when chilled pork products have moved from Manitoba producers over, I believe, into the Japanese market. We very much want to see an expansion of those markets in the food areas. We also want to see our manufactured goods shipped.

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We support the value-added industry that would be associated with this type of a project and that we think that there is some significant potential for an expansion of the job opportunities from the value-added sector should parts be brought into the province and assembled here as subcomponents and assembled into finished product and then forwarded on to their destination out of the Winnipeg Airport, either through the intermodal or multimodal facilities or through the airlines themselves to some other port or destination.

We are quite concerned that there seems to be a spark or a catalyst that is needed to get this project moving ahead and, if I might use an analogy here from my previous days prior to coming to this House, it appears to me that the Winnport project is like a race car like you might find on the race tracks, sitting waiting for the lights to change from red to green. Someone has got their finger on the brake button here, the wheels are spinning in the back on the AA/Fuel dragsters, and this project is not moving forward until someone releases the brake.

I see the person that is sitting on the brake here, from the discussion that took place this morning, as being the federal government not moving forward with the negotiations to secure those landing rights for those jumbo jets, those 747 jumbo jets to move from Winnipeg into those Asian markets. Until that moves--[interjection]. Yes, yes, I would like to see the Minister of Industry and Trade (Mr. Downey) and perhaps the Premier (Mr. Filmon) pick up the phone and talk to Mr. Axworthy, because it is my understanding it is Mr. Axworthy's department.

They should be calling the Prime Minister and saying, this is critical to the future economic development of the province of Manitoba and we want to see this project move forward. We want to secure those landing rights this year and we want to make sure that those aircraft are flying, because it is my understanding that some of that traffic is now being diverted to Chicago and, if we allow this process to continue on any further, we are going to lose the Winnport project and that Chicago and perhaps even Alabama, from what I heard this morning, will be the benefactors of Manitoba's loss, and we do not want to see that happen.

We want to see those opportunities and those jobs come to Winnipeg and to the province of Manitoba . I know my colleague the member for St. James (Ms. Mihychuk) has been pushing very significantly to try and have this project move forward, and I will give her the opportunity, Madam Speaker, to speak to this very important and worthwhile resolution.

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam Speaker, I am going to just take a few minutes to put a few words on the record, as our party and as the member representing St. James, to state that we clearly support this resolution. We are prepared to vote on this resolution, we are prepared to work with all levels of government and members to see that Winnport is successful as much as possible.

Being the representative of St. James, many of the people in my riding are impacted by the development of the airport. It has both positive and negative consequences. There are concerns about further development in terms of noise, increased noise traffic, some of the pollution concerns for the local creeks, as well as additional traffic. However, I must make it clear that the residents in St. James are supportive of this project, supportive of the expansion of the airport and willing to work with the private sector, the public sector and all levels of government to see this go ahead.

The benefits are clearly there for Manitobans. Hopefully we can push the federal government and push our senior federal representative, Mr. Axworthy, to go forward and take the lead in this issue, secure the negotiated permits that are required right now and allow Winnipeg a chance to expand in this sector of Winnport.

I would just like to say that it is the foresight that we need here, a visionary look at Winnport. I am pleased to see that that is happening. If Plan Winnipeg had been amended, as the minister who is now the Minister of Education (Mrs. McIntosh), representing I believe Assiniboia, had suggested back in the late '80s, wanting to amend Plan Winnipeg to provide for expansion of the housing development in St. James, this would have had a serious negative impact on the ability of Winnport to expand.

So I am pleased that our government stood strong, that the NDP was there to enforce Plan Winnipeg, to work with the city, to ensure that it was there for the development. This economic development, Winnport, that we see now has the possibility of developing.

So I am glad we said no to the Minister of Education at that time and we say yes to the development of Winnport now and, as I said, we are pleased to support this resolution and are prepared to vote on it now.

Madam Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? The question before the House is Resolution No. 4, moved by the honourable member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine), seconded by the honourable member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau).

Madam Speaker: All those in favour of the resolution, please say yea.

Some Honourable Members: Yea.

Madam Speaker: All those opposed, please say nay. The resolution is accordingly passed unanimously.

Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, shall we call it six o'clock?

Madam Speaker: Is there leave to call it six o'clock? [agreed].

The hour being 6 p.m., this House is adjourned and stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow (Thursday).