Madam Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have this afternoon twenty-two Grade 9 students from Sisler High School under the direction of Mrs. Carole Grier. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux).
On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.
Interfaith Agreement
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, yesterday I tabled a letter in the Chamber signed by the chair of the Concordia Hospital, Mr. Olfert, which raises the issue of the intimidating tone of the government dealing with the negotiations for the WHA which is scheduled to come in place in 13 days. It talks about disregarding the spirit of the interfaith agreement and talks about the fact that the government has, on the one hand, cut back the money for the hospitals, created the deficits, and then based on patient care, the hospitals have had to run deficits, and this matter is on the table. Peter Liba further goes on to say today that this government is engaging in financial blackmail in introducing and implementing the WHA, which is proposed to come in place in 13 days.
I would like to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon) first of all: will he ask his government minister to stop the intimidating tactics that are referred to by both Mr. Liba and Mr. Olfert, and further, will this Premier acknowledge and confirm and maintain the interfaith agreement that his previous minister signed with the faith institutions less than 18 months ago?
Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the essence of the interfaith agreement is to ensure that the principles of faith of the religious background of the four hospitals involved is maintained in the operation of their facilities. For example, abortions would not be performed in those facilities. Those are issues of faith. The issue here today is one as to whether or not the Winnipeg Hospital Authority would be the employing authority for staff which facilitates much better labour-management relations which facilitates the ability to move staff around the system as they are needed, which is a necessary tool to bring about the consolidation of programming which ultimately improves patient care. Surely to goodness we need to have those kinds of tools in place to provide the best possible service to the patients in those hospitals.
Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, the real issue here is whether the interfaith hospitals can have any faith in this Premier (Mr. Filmon) and this former Minister of Health and this Minister of Health. That is the issue.
I want to table today a letter signed by the CEOs of all four interfaith hospitals, Concordia, Grace, Misericordia and St. Boniface, signed by the voluntary chairs of those boards, saying that they are united on maintaining the interfaith agreement that this Premier's government signed less than 18 months ago. I want to ask the Premier: is he going to maintain his word that has been signed off on the interfaith agreement as part of the new WHA, or does he intend breaking his word with the faith institutions as alleged in the Concordia letter and alleged by the CEOs and chairs of the boards of these other four hospitals?
Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, in the proposal in which the WHA becomes the employing authority, the day-to-day operation of those faith facilities, the hiring and firing, the management of staff in programming and operations that they deliver will be delegated and ultimately still rest with those authorities, which is what the faith-based agreement provides for. The question of actually who is the employer of record on which is based the amalgamation of bargaining units, the negotiation of collective agreements and ultimately the taking down of the paper walls that prevent us today from moving staff around the system is really what the issue is. I do not believe for one moment that someone could make out the argument that it is an argument of a faith issue that the employer of record be the Winnipeg Hospital Authority versus one of those facilities. Surely to goodness, with the changes taking place at Misericordia, we do not want to see nurses laid off at Misericordia who are going to be needed at Concordia Hospital and St. Boniface and Health Sciences Centre. We do not want them laid off and forced to reapply for jobs like the Leader of the Opposition would like to see happen.
Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, it is this government that rejected the human resource deployment and retraining strategy chaired by Lloyd Schreyer years ago. We do not need any lectures from the Minister of Health after his government rejected a retraining and redeployment strategy that was agreed upon by all the employees. We do not need advice and weasel words from this minister. I asked a very simple question.
In October of 1996--I want to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon)--his minister, on behalf of his cabinet and his government, signed an agreement with the interfaith hospitals in Winnipeg. Will this Premier keep his agreement with the interfaith hospitals or as a condition of joining the WHA, will they have to amend or be forced to amend that agreement that his government signed? A very simple question.
Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, first of all, the faith agreement calls for control or management of their employees within the facility and the programs which they deliver. That will continue under the WHA. The issue is the employing authority on which all of the collective bargaining is based.
I can tell the member that we are in discussions with those facilities. The Misericordia Hospital really is a temporary issue, because they will be moving under the long-term care authority when the work is completed and will maintain their full employing authority. With respect to the other three facilities, we are having very good discussions with those facilities, and I am ultimately hopeful that at the end of the day all will agree to participate with the WHA as employing authority.
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Pediatric Neurologists
Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Madam Speaker, over 2 percent of our population, over 23,000 Manitobans, suffer from epilepsy. Last November I wrote to the Minister of Health about the dismissal of a pediatric neurologist from the Health Sciences Centre, and to this date there has been no response from the minister. Now I have learned that the only remaining pediatric neurologist, an epileptologist, is leaving Manitoba at the end of May, leaving for the province of Alberta.
Since the Premier (Mr. Filmon) has interceded in the past to keep doctors in the province of Manitoba and since his current Minister of Health and his former Minister of Health have failed in the negotiations over the last two years to find other specialists in this area, I want to ask the Premier if he will--using his office--get involved in this situation to try and keep the remaining epileptologist in the province of Manitoba so we can provide those vital services to the children of this province.
Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the member raises a very important issue, and I will endeavour to get an update on that status from the people involved who are working with it.
But I do find it interesting, the manner in which the member for Transcona asks his question, because on one hand, his Leader stood in this Chamber just a few minutes ago and talked about maintaining a structure in which the hospitals maintain their right to hire staff and take that responsibility. Then their member gets up in the House and says to the minister and the government: why are you not taking responsibility for it? That is exactly what the issue around employing authority is about, that an agency established by the government would have that particular responsibility. So I tend to see two different viewpoints on the issue of employing authority coming from the New Democrats.
Mr. Reid: Madam Speaker, that is why five months ago I wrote to this minister about this critical situation then.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Transcona was recognized for his supplementary.
Mr. Reid: What do this Minister of Health and this Premier have to say to the over 20,000 people in the province of Manitoba affected by epilepsy? What do you have to say to them when the only remaining epileptologist in the province of Manitoba is leaving in less than two months? What do you have to say to them with respect to the treatment, since that doctor is on call 24 hours a day at the Health Sciences Centre, 24 hours a day at the St. Boniface Hospital and 24 hours a day on call at the Children's Hospital? How is this one person going to provide the services for those families?
Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, as I have indicated to the member, I will endeavour to find out the current status of that situation through the Winnipeg Hospital Authority. As one of the programs within that area, Dr. Brian Postl has that responsibility. I would say to the member, in many areas where we have lost specialists or physicians, the WHA, the Cancer Treatment and Research Foundation, that we provided additional dollars for and is in the process of recruiting--recruitment efforts, I imagine, are underway by the people who are responsible for that particular area. Our responsibility is to ensure the resources are there to do that within our collective agreements with the Manitoba Medical Association, and they take responsibility to recruit, just as the Cancer Treatment and Research Foundation has done with oncologists.
Mr. Reid: Madam Speaker, Dr. Postl has told me that they have tried for two years to find--
Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would remind the honourable member for Transcona that there is to be no preamble on a supplementary question.
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Mr. Reid: Madam Speaker, I want to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon) or the Minister of Health, anybody that can take some action to help these 23,000 Manitobans: how do you propose, as government, to help those families when Dr. Pillay is the leading pediatric neurologist in Canada with the process of vagus implants to help these 40 percent of the intractable cases, and he is going to be leaving the province of Manitoba? Saskatoon has three people that can do this type of work and provide treatment to these families. Why does Manitoba not even have one person?
Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I think the member for Transcona in his preamble indicated that he had spoken to Dr. Postl and that efforts have been underway for two years to recruit an individual to fill that post. So obviously we have people working on this who understand the field, understand what they are attempting to do and attempting to recruit, just as the Cancer Treatment and Research Foundation has been doing. In fact, yesterday I even met with one of the physicians that they have identified as a potential candidate who is visiting our province. I will do the same thing if we are able to identify those candidates.
If the member is asking that somehow we can produce a physician right away, well, they have to be identified and recruited, but as the member himself has admitted to the House, efforts have been underway by the physicians responsible in this area, by the administrators responsible, to recruit, and efforts have been underway for two years to do that.
Breast Cancer Screening
Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, when 80 percent of women ultimately diagnosed with breast cancer wait 16 weeks for tests to confirm their malignancies, breast cancer services in Manitoba are in a state of crisis and violate international standards. Moreover, Dr. Blake McClarty's Winnipeg Health Authority solution contradicts the government's stated policy which is to close Misericordia as an acute care hospital which would, of course, fragment breast services. I want to ask the minister what immediate steps he will take to reduce the 16-week delay between the discovery of a possible malignancy and the test to confirm the malignancy. Women simply cannot wait 16 weeks, nor can their families.
Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the honourable member for this very, very important question. I think this is a concern to all involved in the health care system, that a waiting system as long as this is certainly not acceptable to us.
I think if the member would read a little more closely, Dr. McClarty, who is quoted in the Winnipeg Free Press article, where he talks about the need for better co-ordination and the plans that he is now developing under the Winnipeg Hospital Authority to do just that--one of the components of the Misericordia changes that are going on is that it will be a centre for a variety of ambulatory programs that the WHA wishes to locate there. Those are decisions that they are making. I can assure you that the kinds of financial resources that the WHA will need to bring down this waiting list will be available, but what is critical is that the powers and authorities to bring about the co-ordination are in place. It is regrettable but her Leader today opposes one of those very necessary tools which puts Manitoba women at risk.
Ms. McGifford: Madam Speaker, it baffles me entirely as to how the minister can promote co-ordination of services--
Madam Speaker: Question.
Ms. McGifford: Yes, Madam Speaker, I do have a question. I would like to ask the minister how he intends to promote co-ordination of services at the Misery and retain the necessary expertise at the hospital when the hospital is going to close as an acute care centre and therefore will not offer surgery. He knows that expertise will leave this hospital with the fragmentation of services.
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Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, part of the whole process of regionalization, probably the key part is the ability to have one central agency that has the power and authority that it needs to be able to--
An Honourable Member: It used to be in the government.
Mr. Praznik: Well, the member says it used to be in the government. The government was never the employing authority that had the ability to move staff. We were just, as has been pointed out to me by the faith-based facilities, the funders. We were not the operators of the system, and that is the position that the New Democrats have taken, that government should just be the funder and we should allow hospitals to continue to provide service. We have rejected that model; we have moved towards a regionalized model, and in order for that model to work, the powers have to be in place to be able to move equipment, to be able to move staff, to consolidate programming. I know now that part of the ambulatory diagnostic process here-- there have been discussions at the WHA about developing an ambulatory centre, and the Misericordia is one of the sites that has the potential for being that centre.
Ms. McGifford: My point was that you cannot have one-stop shopping when there is--
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member was recognized for a final supplementary question. Please pose your question now.
Ms. McGifford: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the minister why Manitoba women had to wait for a pre-election year for a mobile breast screening unit when Saskatchewan had one in 1991, and the member for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk) proposed such a unit in the early 1990s. Was it the fact that the volunteer unit finally shamed the minister into action, or is it just the pre-election window once more?
Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, the point that the member for Osborne makes in her comment, as she rose, about how do you deliver one-stop shopping with 73 or something different shops, she is absolutely right. That is what regionalization is about, about pulling services together and consolidating them to get the best use of resources so that patient care improves. I would like the New Democratic Party--they may oppose how we implement it, and that is legitimate debate--to tell us whether they support the principle of regionalization or not. They cannot have it both ways.
Specifically, with respect to breast screening, Saskatchewan and Manitoba are very different provinces in our geography. We have a large centre with 650,000 people, another hundred thousand within a short drive, three-quarters of our population in one major centre. Saskatchewan is much more spread out. We have also learned a number of very important things from the Saskatchewan mobile program which should make the Manitoba program I think somewhat better in the way that we have learned from some of the mistakes that they have made in it too.
Staffing
Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Justice. Yesterday the minister said words to the effect that you would never catch me engaged in patronage, I hope. Then he went on to say: " . . . that is not the kind of minister I am . . ."
In the face of this minister, in January, hiring the past vice-president of the Progressive Conservative Party of Manitoba to the position of his urban crime prevention co-ordinator, my question is: is it this minister's policy now that staff or positions in the new Public Safety Branch will be hired without public competition from the senior ranks of the Progressive Conservative Party of Manitoba?
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Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I will let the record speak for itself as to what I said. I trust that the people of Manitoba will look at the record rather than listen to the words of the member for St. Johns. I do want to indicate that, in respect of that particular position, I have made my position very, very clear. A person is occupying a position on a temporary basis. Indeed, I even believe the funding is coming from a different department. When that position is to be filled, that will be the subject of a competition.
Mr. Mackintosh: Would the minister, who should listen to Manitobans who do not care if the person was there for two days or a term position or a temporary position--why is this minister hiring the past vice-president of the Conservative Party of Manitoba for a position involving very serious matters of public safety? Why is he doing that?
Mr. Toews: Madam Speaker, I want to indicate that I had no part in hiring. I do not hire at that level. That is not my task to do that. We have officials who do that. I do know how the New Democrats did exactly that when I was a director under their department and under their rule, and they used to drop people into my department on a regular basis. Indeed, there are still people who were dropped in from political positions directly into the public service without any competition.
I do not take anything away from those people. I am just saying that they talk very, very differently from the way they act. I am telling you, Madam Speaker, that I do not act in the way they consistently acted.
Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, with a final supplementary question.
Mr. Mackintosh: Would the minister, who has just confirmed to Manitobans what they already think and that he has no control over his department, tell Manitobans whether or not he had any knowledge of this hiring, a hiring I understand that came through some communications from the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr. Newman)? That is where this individual worked as his political assistant. Did he have knowledge of this position? What directive did this minister issue when he found out then? We want to know.
Mr. Toews: I want to indicate that in respect of the hiring of that particular individual for whatever length of time she is there--and I understand it is for a brief period of time--that everything as I am aware was done appropriately and properly.
If there is any issue outstanding about whether or not there will be a competition for that position, I want to indicate to this House that there will be a competition for that position.
Government Support
Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples): My question is for the Minister of Justice. Tonight at a public forum that he and the Minister of Family Services (Mrs. Mitchelson) are holding, amongst the people planning to attend will be 14 participants of a program being run out of Valley Gardens, in the riding of the member for Concordia (Mr. Doer), called Together for Change: Crime Prevention through Social Development.
This is a federal government program, $140,000, a crime prevention program that is modelled after a very successful program that was run in The Maples for two years, and among the members of the advisory board are myself and the member for Radisson (Ms. Cerilli). What can the minister say to these participants on how he will support their crime prevention programs tonight?
Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I want to thank the member for The Maples for that question. I think one can see the difference between the approach from the member for The Maples and the member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh). The member for The Maples is the kind of MLA who wants to work with his constituents to address the problems of crime. Indeed, the member for The Maples works beyond the boundaries of his constituency to ensure that all types of partnerships are created with respect to the issue of crime prevention. I want to, of course, know more about that particular program, but I certainly want to indicate that the ideas that member has come up with, to my attention, have always been good and there has always been something good to take from those ideas.
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Mr. Kowalski: My supplementary is to the minister. This is a federal government program. Will the province commit to emulating this program, as it has been successful for a number of years, as a model to be used in suburban Winnipeg?
Mr. Toews: Without wanting to make any commitments here because there is a civil service and a bureaucracy that does process all of these issues, I want to say here on the record, however, that I am very much in favour of any kind of community-based partnership to work with both government and the police. I want to assure the member that, in specific discussions that we may have in respect to that, he will receive the full attention of my department and indeed my own attention.
Mr. Kowalski: My last supplementary: will the minister then commit if he is willing to work with the community to funding for a full-time volunteer co-ordinator to work with youth justice committees instead of the part-time co-ordinator he now has?
Mr. Toews: I thank the member for that question. As he is aware, in the last year our government provided an additional $41,000 towards the functioning of those youth committees. We want to ensure that our resources within the department are being used appropriately, but certainly I am a very strong proponent of youth justice committees. These committees have done a lot of good in our communities in order to reduce the amount of youth crime and recidivism. So I will seriously undertake that question and look to see what resources are available to supplement the resources we are already providing.
Privatization
Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, this government has a plan to privatize the Pineland Forest Nursery in short order. They now have a report, the Doane Raymond report, recommending the complete privatization of this special operating agency. The employees of the Pineland Forest Nursery and people living in the area are very concerned that they are going to get the shaft from this government in this privatization. Would the Minister of Natural Resources support today in the House the employees in their bid for an employee buy-out, a real employee buy-out of this nursery?
Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, the member is well aware of the fact that the Pineland Nursery has been a highly successful special operating agency, and in fact, so successful that numerous enterprises in forestry across Canada have indicated that they thought it was unfair competition. In fact, the real success of Pineland Nursery is based on the success of the very people that the member is asking about and the dedication and the effort that they put into this nursery. Yes, we have been looking at what options are for the future of this nursery, but I can assure him that at no time will the best interests of the people who have made this thing work be endangered.
Mr. Struthers: If it is so successful, why then is this government bound and determined that this privatization will take place and when will this happen?
Mr. Cummings: Madam Speaker, the member is asking a question that has not yet been answered. The fact is we are looking to the future for this special operating agency. It is running very much in a private sector mode and is competing nationally and internationally for contracts. In fact, one of its impediments may well be how many taxpayers' dollars are we willing to commit for future expansion and enhancement of that operation. So I would be interested in the member's comments. Is he suggesting that we perhaps bankroll them with another $5 million?
Mr. Struthers: Madam Speaker, when the government divests this nursery, will it commit to an open process so that all interested parties can have a fair shot at buying this SOA, or will it do it in this government's usual fashion and do it in a very secret way to some of its own friends?
Mr. Cummings: Well, Madam Speaker, unlike the fascist thinking of the member for Dauphin, this government is not going to infringe on the rights of those workers.
Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Madam Speaker, I am appalled at the language that I heard coming out of the minister's mouth just a moment ago, and I ask you to rule on the words that the minister just used, with reference to the member for Dauphin, here in this House, whether or not it is appropriate language to be used in the Manitoba Legislature. I ask you to ask this minister to show some decorum and withdraw the language that he has just used.
Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Natural Resources, on the same point of order.
Mr. Cummings: Madam Speaker, I did not indicate anything more than the concern and the innuendo that the member for Dauphin was raising, and if he is offended by the term that I used, I will gladly withdraw it.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. I thank the honourable Minister of Natural Resources.
Community Facilities--Seven Sisters
Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam Speaker, Manitoba Hydro is in the process of selling off its properties in Seven Sisters townsite, including the recreational facilities which include the hall, the curling rink, the skating rink and the baseball diamond, to a private developer, even though the community has operated these facilities for over 30 years. My question to the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro: why is Manitoba Hydro allowed to sell community facilities such as the hall, the skating rink, the curling club and the baseball diamond without the community's agreement?
Hon. David Newman (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Hydro Act): Madam Speaker, that issue is under consideration at this time, and I think my honourable friend knows that. I will have further information as the information comes to me through Hydro.
Ms. Mihychuk: My second question to the Minister responsible for Hydro: can the minister explain to the people of Seven Sisters why there has been no consultation in this process at all to date? Why has there been no contact with the people involved?
Mr. Newman: Madam Speaker, this is a matter that the honourable member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson) brought to my attention some time ago, and the matter is under consideration. What more can I say? This is a community facility that has been supported well by the community over time, and Hydro, as a good corporate citizen and responsive to the people of Manitoba who are its owners, will deal with it sensitively and properly as they always do.
Ms. Mihychuk: Madam Speaker, how much is Hydro going to profit off selling these community facilities, and will the minister commit to consulting the community immediately?
Mr. Newman: Madam Speaker, as I said, I will be looking into this matter and determining what course of action Hydro had planned, but the suggestion that Hydro will be profiting from this at the expense of the community is absurd. Hydro has a great interest in preserving what has been a very good relationship with that community, and I am sure will be acting accordingly in its conclusions as to what to do in this situation.
Rent Increase
Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): My question is for the Minister of Housing. When this government increased the rents for the thousands of Manitoba families that live in Manitoba housing properties to 27 percent of their income, they said the feds made them do it. The minister even went so far as to say that the federal government was advocating that the rents go up as high as 30 percent. I want to ask the minister to explain a letter that I have received from the federal minister of housing, that he has a copy of, that says, the federal government did not change its existing rent-geared-to-income scale, which is set at 25 percent. I want to ask the minister to explain, if the feds made him do it, why is their housing still at 25 percent?
Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Housing): Madam Speaker, I guess they use some figures sometimes, it is the interpretation and the direction that you want to take them as to how you word questions. But the 25 percent that the member is alluding to, I believe she is aware that applies for bachelor units. Our 25 percent is the same as the federal government. The allusion to the 27 percent, we have kept 27 percent over the last--well, since I have become minister, and I believe even the previous minister kept it at 27. We have not moved that figure in the last at least three to four years from the 27 percent. The federal government in some of its housing does have rent at 30 percent. So we are still maintaining our level of 27 percent and we have not moved it.
Ms. Cerilli: Can the minister explain, if he is insisting that the federal government is the one that has changed their policy, why the federal-managed units in Manitoba are at 25 percent of rent geared to income and his units are at 27 percent of rent geared to income?
Mr. Reimer: Our units for bachelor suites are at 25 percent. Our rent for family units is at 27 percent. It has been like that for years. Now the rent that the federal government is charging for their units, as I have mentioned, is up to 30 percent at times. They also use, I believe, the 25 percent for their bachelor units, and I believe they use the 27 percent, in some of their cases, for family units. I do not see any inconsistency in what the member is asking questions about.
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Ms. Cerilli: The important issue here is when this government is over the more than 17,000 units currently managed by the federal government, will they raise the rents on those properties that are currently 25 percent of the rent geared to income? Will they raise that to 27 percent?
Mr. Reimer: I believe to answer in speculative tones is to--if we take over the federal offer, there is negotiation, as the member is well aware of, and I have made a point of keeping her abreast of the fact that we are in negotiation with the federal government. No decision has been made. There are a lot of ramifications, implications that we do have to take under consideration. One of the things, as she mentioned, is the rent geared to income. Our rent geared to income has not changed, and in the immediate future, I do not see any change in that direction, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Radisson, with a new question.
Ms. Cerilli: On a new question, the same issue, Madam Speaker. I want to ask the minister, clearly they are negotiating agreement on taking over the federally managed housing properties. This is not speculation. Can he tell us today: are you putting in that agreement an increase in rent of those properties that are currently managed by the federal government to match your higher rents in the Manitoba properties?
Mr. Reimer: If the member was thinking that there was speculation, what I was referring to, we have not made any decision as to which way we are going to go with the federal government as to what is under negotiation. There are a lot of parameters and factions that we are looking at in regard to negotiations for the package. It is a very large and complicated structure, as she knows, that we are talking about--over 17,000 units that are spread out throughout Manitoba with different agreements, different arrangements with various nonprofit organizations. All these things have to be considered when we look at this devolution that the federal government is doing.
So it is still under negotiation. No decision has been made.
Staffing
Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): To the Minister of Justice. In early January the minister created a new position in his department, a rare occurrence, of urban crime prevention co-ordinator. Is the minister seriously telling Manitobans that over the last three months and in the period up to the filling of the co-ordinator's position, he did not know that position had been filled by one Loretta Barrett or Loretta Marten?
Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, if this member for St. Johns wants a briefing on that particular issue as to how that particular individual came to fill that position, I am prepared to have my staff sit down with him and explain exactly how that occurred. If he wants to do that, he is more than welcome to attend at my office to get all the facts before he puts false information on the record, as he is wont to do from time to time.
Mr. Mackintosh: Would the minister, who I know wants to move this behind closed doors and out of the way of the public, Madam Speaker, explain to Manitobans whether or not he had knowledge that that position was going to be filled and was filled by Loretta Barrett, and if not, why did he not ask?
Mr. Toews: Madam Speaker, without wanting to get into too many of the details, because I do not want to--
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Mr. Toews: Well, I want to indicate that the position has not been filled and has not been filled on a permanent basis. That is something that will come about.
As I understand it--and I could be incorrect in this respect--at this point, the Department of Justice is not even involved in the financial aspect of the payment of that position that this particular person is occupying at this time. The position that the member for St. Johns is talking about will be filled in accordance with all the civil service rules and regulations pertaining to the filling of any permanent position. I do not know what else to tell him about that position.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. Time for Oral Questions has expired.