Mr. Deputy Speaker: The hour now being five o'clock, time for private members' hour.
Mr. Gerry McAlpine (Sturgeon Creek): I move, seconded by the honourable member for Pembina (Mr. Dyck), that
"WHEREAS Manitoba has been leading the nation in job creation; and
"WHEREAS the Toronto Dominion Bank forecasts that the Manitoba economy will expand by over 4% in 1997, creating nearly 14,000 jobs; and
"WHEREAS Manitoba's jobless rate has been below 7% for most of 1997; and
"WHEREAS full-time jobs have accounted for nearly 90% of Manitoba's year-to-date job growth, with an increase of 3.2%, the second strongest of the provinces and far ahead of Canada's 1.5% growth; and
"WHEREAS all of Manitoba's 1997 job growth has been in the private sector; and
"WHEREAS a recent KPMG report showed that, among 42 cities studied in seven countries, Winnipeg was the ninth most affordable place for business investment.
"THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba support the government in its continued effort to create a competitive business climate which will continue the goal of making Manitoba the best place to live, work, invest and raise a family."
Motion presented.
Mr. McAlpine: Mr. Deputy Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to rise on this very important resolution. I think that honourable members over there are hurting to the full extent, because this government has created an environment that this province has never seen in decades, and the honourable members across the way have failed to see the opportunities and the benefits, and I urge them to support this resolution to the fullest extent.
I want to put some statistics on the record, because I think these are important things that all Manitobans should hear. Too often the wrong message is given and the wrong people are listened to. I make reference to some honourable members across the way. I will not mention any particular names, but they know who they are. I think it is unfortunate that there are people in this Legislature that are giving the incorrect messages that Manitobans are relying on.
I think it is important that Manitobans realize and know that Manitoba leads the country as far as opportunities are concerned, and this is--[interjection] Well, the honourable member talks about northern Manitoba. Yes, there are opportunities in the North just as there are anywhere. I think people who take the initiative--I mean, this is not something that as far as looking for opportunities--people, ourselves, we create our own opportunities. We create our own destinies. I always tell, in another business that I have, that I work with, professional athletes, that, in terms of what you are going to do and what your success is, it is 90 percent attitude and 10 percent talent.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, I think that if the honourable members across the way were giving that type of message to people who they are consulting or counselling, there may even be better things in the province of Manitoba. When you consider that we are approaching an unemployment rate in this province of around 5 percent, that is almost like a zero percent unemployment rate. In my lifetime, I do not think that I have seen much better than that.
Manitoba's seasonal unemployment rate fell sharply to just 5.2 percent in March and from 5.8 percent in February. Those are the facts. Those are not our numbers. Those are the hard facts of this whole aspect of employment in the province of Manitoba. Our jobless rate is now the lowest in Canada and the lowest for Manitoba since February 1981.
An Honourable Member: Not in Sturgeon Creek.
Mr. McAlpine: Well, the honourable member talks about the people in Sturgeon Creek, and the honourable member across the way talks about the people in the North. Well, I will tell you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, you know, the thing that people have to do is to take responsibility for their own destinies. The people in this Legislature who say about the poor people in the North or the poor people wherever, they have to create their own destiny. There is no free lunch out there.
Certainly, there are tremendous opportunities in this province. It is just a matter of waking up to the fact and getting out of the whole aspect of not being able to succeed, looking down on the negative side, like looking for somebody to do something for us because they cannot do it for themselves. Well, anything that I have ever had to do as an individual or anything that I have ever seen or worked with people, it is what they have done for themselves.
The honourable Leader of the official opposition, I do not know how much assistance he got in where has gotten today. [interjection] Well, I am sure he did, and he did all by his own bootstraps. I think that he should probably convey that message to other people who will listen to him instead of taking the other approach.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, so many things in Manitoba we have--the full-time employment in the province of Manitoba showed a big gain in March of 1998, and I compared this to March of 1997, which is up 14,700 jobs over last year. You know, for a province of approximately a million people and, I guess, the employment numbers that we have in the province of Manitoba of around 500,000, that is a significant increase of 14,700. Those are full-time jobs. I offer to the honourable member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin) that those are significant numbers, and he cannot argue with that. I hope that he will come to this Chamber and support this resolution, because those are impressive numbers.
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An Honourable Member: What is the unemployment rate in the North?
Mr. McAlpine: Well, again, he refers to, what is the unemployment rate, you know, in the North? I say, listen, there are opportunities in the North. There are opportunities everywhere in Manitoba. There are opportunities everywhere in Canada. We just have to go out and find them.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, all the forecasters are even more optimistic with regard to the future of Manitoba than the Conference Board about job growth in Manitoba this year. I think we owe a lot of this to this government because we are not going out and this government is not offering jobs to the people of Manitoba. All they are doing is offering opportunities and creating an environment. It is the private sector that creates the opportunities for jobs and employment. As one of my honourable members says, those are the engines that drive the economy of the province. That is different than the honourable members across the way have been used to, because they believe that government should be creating that employment, government should be offering the jobs, and that is not the way.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, the total new capital investment in Manitoba is expected to reach--
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. I hate to interrupt the honourable member, but I am starting to have difficulty hearing him. If there are some members who want to have a discussion, I would ask them if they could do it in the loge or out in the hall.
Mr. McAlpine: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I do want to thank you. It is awfully considerate of you to offer that.
I was talking about the new capital investment in Manitoba. It is expected to reach $4.94 billion in 1998, a 6.3 percent gain from 1997 levels, and that for a province of approximately a million people. Those are impressive numbers, just above the forecasted national gain of 6.2 percent. Manitoba's growth in total capital investment was also above the national average for the past three years, running from 1995 through to 1997.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, another area that is another engine that drives the economy of this province is the manufacturing sector. Manufacturing investment should reach over $620 million in Manitoba this year, which is a 15.4 percent gain over revised 1997 levels, and our performance this year should be the third best provincially and far stronger than the expected national average of just 1 percent.
On a year-to-year basis, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for the first two months of 1998, manufacturing shipments were up 10.2 percent, another impressive number. These are things that I think that--[interjection] This 10.2 percent is second best in the country and nearly four times Canada's 2.6 percent gain for the same period. Especially strong growth areas for Manitoba's manufacturing sector in the first two months of 1998 were transportation equipment, up $44 million or 19.3 percent; and food processing, up $45 million or 14.7 percent; and machinery industry, up $26 million or 13.9 percent; clothing up $13 million or 29.6 percent; and printing and publishing up $12 million or 16 percent.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, all these increases are double-digit numbers. You know, when they talk about the doom and gloom that they would like to see in this province, I really have difficulty in understanding how they can communicate such rhetoric to the people of Manitoba when there are facts out there that prove them wrong.
Provincial labour income growth was also strong in 1996, rising by 3 percent, $417 million above Canada's 2.8 percent. Total personal income growth is up 4.7 percent, the second best performance among the provinces and more than double the national growth of 2 percent.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would just like to conclude by saying, and I know that my time has almost elapsed, but I would like to say we are very fortunate people to be living in a province with an economy that has been established over the past 10 years and a government that has created an environment that free enterprise can prosper and investment can be the engine behind the economy. I want all members of this Legislature to support me in this resolution in congratulating this government on the tremendous job that they have done. Thank you.
Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): The honourable member uses statistics like a drunk uses a lamppost, more for support than illumination.
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Mr. Sale: You have to remember that there was this wonderful TV series called Lassie. I am sure you watched it as a child. There are a number of good things about canines.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, the interesting reality in Manitoba is that there are two very different economies at work. There is no question, when those in our--
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. I hate to interrupt the honourable member for Crescentwood, but you have not really started yet. Could I ask the honourable members to just tone it down just a few octaves. I know you are really having a good time entering into this debate, but I am sure you will all have an opportunity with what time we have left on the clock to enter into the debate.
The honourable member for Crescentwood, to continue.
Mr. Sale: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. As I was saying, there really are two economies evident in Manitoba. When members of our caucus tour in southern Manitoba, where we expect to win a number of seats in the next election--
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Mr. Sale: Pembina is on our list, yes. There are a number on our list.
We noticed that the unemployment rate in prosperous little towns like Rosenort and other communities in southern Manitoba is very low. Those communities are thriving, and we are glad that is the case. We are pleased for the people of southern Manitoba that their economy is doing well and that the unemployment is very low. I have for the last three years been compiling the monthly adjusted employment numbers from Statistics Canada, and this is why I say that the honourable member opposite uses statistics rather like a drunk uses a lamppost, because the numbers from Statistics Canada bear very little resemblance to what he is putting on the record.
Just to give a couple of examples, in 1997 in January, we had 540,900 Manitobans at work, full and part time, private and public sector. Fifteen months later, the numbers that were announced for March, in early April, 543,900 Manitobans at work. Now that is all of '97 and the first three months in '98, 15 months. We have had 3,000 more people at work over 15 months. So I am not sure where he is finding the numbers he is finding, but StatsCan announces these every month. I put them in my computer and print them out from time to time and have a look, and this is what I see: 3,000 job growth over 15 months. That is about 200 a month, not exactly a sterling record.
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But, even more troubling, we have heard a lot about our workforce. Well, in that same month in January 1997, our labour force was 581,700. That was, in fact, the highest it had ever been. The truth be told, it is the highest it has ever been since, because since that time our labour force has fallen some 8,000 to 573,700, as of last month, so we have lost 8,000 out of the labour force and we gained 3,000 jobs. That does not exactly depict, as far as my understanding, a sterling record over the last 15 months. In fact, if those 8,000 people had stayed in the labour force instead of giving up or leaving or moving to Saskatchewan, which a number of them did, we would have an unemployment rate of 6.5 percent, not 5.2 percent. That would be marginally better than what we had the year before, but not much. It would put us in third place behind Saskatchewan and Alberta, where we traditionally in fact have been. So the reason that we are suddenly apparently in No. 1 is because our labour force declined by 8,000 workers over the last year, not because we had great job growth.
When you look at 1997, to date, from January '97 to March '98, 15 months, you will find that Canada's job creation rate, depending on which of the numbers you use, whether it is actual or seasonally adjusted, including full and part time, total job creation rate, is four times as fast as Manitoba's. Manitoba's is the third worst in Canada, behind only P.E.I. and Newfoundland, so our job creation rate during 1997 was terrible. If the member really wants to have some honest numbers on the record, he would look back at 1996.
Mr. McAlpine: A point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. You know, the honourable member, I mean he can make reference to the drunk and the lamppost, and he can talk about honesty and things like that. In reference to the matter of honesty, when he imputes motive over here, in his reference to the drunk using the lamppost, I look across. With the information that is coming from the honourable member, it is hard to distinguish which is the drunk and which is the lamppost. So I would ask you to bring him to order.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: The member for Thompson, on the same point of order.
Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I think the reference that the member opposite objected to was to honest numbers. Indeed, the member has put a lot of honest numbers on the record. I do not know why the member would take any offence to that. I suggest, given the latter part of his comments, there is no point of order.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: I would like to thank the honourable members for their comments. The honourable member for Thompson is correct. There is no point of order. It is clearly a dispute over the facts. The honourable member for Crescentwood, to continue.
Mr. Sale: Mr. Deputy Speaker, as I said, if the member would like to have some honest numbers on the record, he would in fact go back to 1996. In 1996, there was rather good job growth. That was an outstanding year in many ways. I have acknowledged that in public, and I would acknowledge it again. I have no trouble acknowledging it because it is the only year in 10 years where there was good job growth. There was terrible job growth for the government's first eight years. They had one good year, 1996; 1997 was a bust; and so far this year, in three months, we have gone from December at the end of last year, 542.6 to 543.9. Big deal, it has gone up 1,300 jobs, so the job growth in every year except 1996 was abysmal under this government's strategy.
It took longer for Manitoba to come out of the recession than most other parts of the country. We stayed in it longer. Our unemployment numbers stayed higher longer. Finally, in one year we had a great year. We did a little bit of catching up, and now it has stopped again. The job creation rate in Manitoba is third worst in Canada, not the best, third worst. It is far behind Canada, running at approximately between a sixth and a quarter of Canada's job creation rate in the last 15 months.
Now, when you take into account, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that more than 6,000 people voted on the government's effect at creating decent jobs last year, they voted by leaving, the highest rate of loss of our province's population in years. They went to Saskatchewan, a thousand of them; a number went to Alberta and more went to B.C. Six thousand Manitobans voted with their feet last year on this government's job creation record.
For all of the partisan rhetoric in this debate, and we have fun with that, I know, in the House, there is very a serious issue that I want to move to, and that is the completely misleading nature of our job numbers as collected by Statistics Canada in Manitoba, for a very important and serious reason that I would hope all members opposite would understand. Statistics Canada does not even gather information about aboriginal people, First Nations people, who live on reserves. Now if the proportion of aboriginal people on reserve across the country were identical, this might not skew the statistics. It would still dishonour their role as citizens. It would still make it plain to them that they did not count when it came to an important piece of information on which most Canadians make decisions. It would still treat them as second-class citizens, but it would not distort the statistics.
However, the reality is that there are two provinces in Canada, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, that have over 10 percent of their population are aboriginal, and 7 percent of that lives on reserves. The unemployment level on reserves ranges from maybe a little under 50 percent to over 90 percent. So, if we were comparing ourselves fairly with Ontario, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Quebec, B.C., certainly P.E.I. and Newfoundland, we would acknowledge that the real unemployment in this province is in the order of 12 percent, very like Newfoundland, very like Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. That is because aboriginal workers in this province make up a much higher proportion of our workforce than they do in Ontario.
So StatsCan's failure to report honestly on all of those who would like to work in this province and cannot do so seriously distorts our understanding of our economy, because in the real world of the economy we are carrying an unemployment burden of between 10 percent and 12 percent without counting discouraged workers, without counting youth who have not rejoined the labour force since the last recession, without counting part-time workers that would like to work full time. We are carrying between 10 percent and 12 percent unemployment in the real world.
That is a Statistics Canada failure to count aboriginal people in their survey work. It dishonours aboriginal people; it dishonours their role as citizens, but, more importantly, it fools us into thinking that we have a low unemployment level when in fact we do not. We have a very serious unemployment level in this province.
This government has failed utterly to come to grips with the need to encourage and to enable aboriginal people to take the kind of role they would like to take to become full economic participants in this economy. They pretend that we are fully employed. They pretend that this is just a problem, and we have listened to the First Minister (Mr. Filmon) saying, well, it is Ottawa's problem; you know, they are on reserves, that is Ottawa's problem.
They are citizens of this province. They contribute to this province's economy. We have a stake; they have a stake. The unemployment situation in this province is incredibly serious, because we have failed to take into account the needs of our First Nations people. We do not even care enough to count them when it comes to their need for employment and their unemployment situation, Mr. Deputy Speaker. This is a very serious issue. For all of the rhetoric that comes from the other side of the House about our sterling economy, we are running at less than 90 percent employment. We are like New Brunswick and like Nova Scotia in that regard. The sooner we face up to it, the sooner it will be a more truthful situation on which to base public policy.
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Therefore, I move, seconded by the honourable member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin), that everything after the first WHEREAS be deleted and the following added:
"WHEREAS since 1997, Canada's job creation rate has been more than four times faster than Manitoba's; and
"WHEREAS in the fifteen months since January 1997, Manitoba's workforce has declined by 8,000 workers; and
"WHEREAS only 3,000 new jobs have been created in the entire 15 months period since January, 1997; and
"WHEREAS more than 6,000 Manitobans left the province during 1997; and
"WHEREAS the unemployment statistics in Manitoba do not include any figures for the more than 64,000 Manitobans who live in reserve communities where unemployment rates range from 50% to 90% or more; and
"WHEREAS the deliberate omission of these citizens from labour force statistics results in grossly incorrect unemployment statistics.
"THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba urge the Provincial Government to consider immediately changing the manner in which employment, work force and unemployment statistics are collected and reported in Manitoba so as to reflect accurately the real rates of unemployment and employment in Manitoba; and
"BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this Assembly urge the Provincial Government to consider making stronger efforts to create a business, employment and public services climate which will have the goal of making Manitoba the best place to work, to live, to invest and to raise a family."
Motion presented.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: We are going to take the matter as notice and bring it back to the House when the matter is again before the House.
Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): First of all, I want to certainly register my disappointment in the members opposite for not accepting the resolution that was placed before them by the honourable member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine).
Absolutely, the information that he was giving us was accurate. The numbers out there are accurate. I am surprised that they would not unanimously accept this resolution. I believe that certainly as the resolution indicates that, as a government, we have certainly tried to create an atmosphere within the province which is conducive for industry to flourish. Certainly, that has taken place.
The honourable member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) there was giving some of his stats as the way he sees them. I am not going to go into a long dissertation of trying to disprove his numbers, but I think it is fairly accurate in what was in the newspaper here. It says: Tim Sale's creative counting by Brian Cole. It most certainly indicates some of the numbers that he is using. He says here again: Mr. Sale reveals his talent for manipulating facts to serve a political end.
I think we have seen a lot of that in the last while. In the three years that I have been in this House I have seen a fair bit of that.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would like to, rather than look at this in such a negative way as what we have just heard, put on the record some of the things that are happening within the Pembina constituency. As my honourable colleague here indicated, people have to take ownership and responsibility for the things that they do. I want to congratulate the area, the people that I represent, for their taking ownership and responsibility for having done well and who continue to work hard in the businesses that they are involved in. Certainly they have created a climate where they can continue to grow.
It is interesting also, just several weeks ago, I had the opportunity to tour the Schneider's plant in Winnipeg together with the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns), and they indicated very clearly at the end of our tour that they needed 50 more people just to fill the jobs. There are opportunities out there. There are many opportunities out there. The biggest obstacle that we are facing right now within southern Manitoba is the ability to be able to hire people to work. Really, the unemployment is zero out there, and it is not because people are moving out. It is because people are finding employment and are working.
Mr. Ben Sveinson, Acting Speaker, in the Chair
So, Mr. Acting Speaker, I cannot in any way agree with the numbers and the figures that the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) has been putting on the record here this afternoon. The paper, Rural Manitoba Development--and, of course, this was highlighted at the Rural Forum in Brandon--indicated very clearly what my honourable colleague here from Sturgeon Creek was talking about, about things happening within the province, the fact that we have created a climate where business can grow.
I would like to highlight some of those businesses who have been taking advantage of this. First of all, there is a gentleman--I know him fairly well. His name is Ron Giesbrecht and represents Ronnie's Jumbo Seeds. He had this dream. He wanted to go into business on his own. He saw that there was a need out there, and so he started packaging sunflower seeds--we call them spits--and he is doing very well. He is marketing these right across Canada; again, a dream that he had. He went ahead. He took a hold of that dream and is doing well. [interjection]
Another company that I would like to highlight is Elias Woodworking and Manufacturing Limited. Ralph Fehr and John Fehr, brothers, again had a dream. They had a dream of getting into the woodworking business, and so they are manufacturing cabinets, cabinetry, anything that is involved with woodworking. They started from a little one-room business in the garage and have grown to where they are employing numerous people at the present time. Again, they have been highlighted in the magazine here, and certainly they took a lot of risks, but with these risks they are also doing well.
So, Mr. Acting Speaker, I believe, again, that what the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) was saying is not accurate, is certainly not indicative of what I see taking place within this province.
Winkler Meats, another company, has been growing, and they are exporting their products throughout Canada and into the United States. The last number of years, as well, they have been growing. They have specialized now in sausages, in patty-style sausages, that are being sold. You can throw them straight onto the barbecue, excellent food, and, certainly, again, I want to congratulate them for the work that they are doing.
Acrylon Plastics, they just did a large expansion this past year, another business doing well. John Borland, the president of the company, saw a need. Right today, they are manufacturing and doing moulds for about 1,200 to 1,500 slides that are used for playground equipment, and, again, they are exporting these across North America. There are many other products, of course, that they are producing out of their plant in Winkler.
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Tina Friesen of Pembina Valley Job Finding club, two years ago she saw the need out there to--again, exactly opposite of what the member for Crescentwood has been saying--be able to assist those employers who need employees, who are looking for people to work and to help them to develop their own businesses. She saw a need out there. She developed a business and, certainly, it is doing well. She is growing in numbers almost every week and finding a real need out there.
Lode-King Industries, another company that has done a major expansion this past year, they added 55,000 square feet to the existing building and are producing trailers, and we see them out on the highways on a continuous basis, but, again, another company that has been growing, and my discussion with them on Monday of this past week was that they are looking for employees. They are looking for people to fill the need. There is a shortage out there. So, you know, again, it is not consistent with what the member for Crescentwood has been telling me.
Decor Cabinets, a company in Morden doing a major expansion, they are exporting their cabinet material, again, right across North America. They have been able to do a fair bit of business within the U.S. and right now are opening up markets in Japan; again, a tremendous opportunity. This business was started by two brothers, and, again, they started it in the rural area. They were doing their manufacturing in a garage right next to the house, and today they are employing about 50 people. This has happened over the last few years. They took responsibility. They took ownership for the need that they saw was out there.
But, then, Mr. Acting Speaker, I would like to move also more into the agricultural industry. As we have heard numerous times in the House here, the expanding potato industry--it has been doing extremely well in the potato industry. There is tremendous expansion taking place within southern Manitoba, within the area that I represent. Again, it is seeing a need. It is seizing the opportunity and creating jobs. Again, the industry today is looking for people to assist them in the production of potatoes.
The bean industry, another good industry, there are a number of buyers in Morden, in Winkler, in the Pembina area, who are buying beans. Again, they are cleaning them, but they are adding value to them by packaging them and, again, selling them across, in fact, almost every continent in the world. There is tremendous opportunity for these products out there.
I mentioned just, I guess, several weeks ago about a company which is known as Keystone Grain which did a large expansion this past summer. What they do is they take the hulls off of sunflower seeds and package the sunflowers and ship them across. Now, this is a little different from the company that I mentioned which is Ronnie's Jumbo. The jumbo seeds are sold as whole seeds, and, of course, those who buy them can then split them. What Keystone Grain does is they take the shells off the seed, and they sell them as a product that way so they can be consumed immediately.
Mr. Marcel Laurendeau, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair
So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, there are many things that are happening out there which I just really cannot agree with the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) as to the comments that he made and that he put on the record.
Again, as the member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine) indicated, it is the objective of this government and has been--and certainly we have seen this take place. We want to create an environment out there that will support and that will enhance the businesses that will support them in their growth. We want to create that kind of an atmosphere for them.
It reminds me a little bit of the policy that the NDP had in the 1970s. The way I understand their policy to be, and I think it is still very much the same, and it takes this form. If it moves, regulate it; if it breathes, unionize it; if it makes a profit, tax it. Now, that is what I see taking place. We want to create an atmosphere that is going to be conducive for business to flourish, to do well and to be able to operate. [interjection]
The member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) asks me if I am against unions. I think unions have their place. I do not have a problem with that. They have their place, certainly, but not to the extent that the member opposite would like to think that they should be.
So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I think with those few comments on the record, I would just like to close by saying that I certainly do support the resolution that my honourable colleague from Sturgeon Creek put on record. The fact is that we want to have a competitive business climate which will continue the goal of making Manitoba the best place to live, work, invest, and raise a family. I cannot support the amendment that was put in place by the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale), because I believe it is not consistent with what is actually taking place within the province of Manitoba.
Again, Mr. Deputy Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to put a few comments on the record.
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Mr. Deputy Speaker, let me at the outset say that I do not support the government resolution that was put forth by the member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine), but I wholeheartedly support the amendment that was proposed by my colleague from Crescentwood.
Let me tell you why. Because, as I have repeatedly stated in this Assembly for almost eight years that I have been here now, when policies, legislation, and programs and services are developed, enacted, and implemented by this government, I have always said that those policies, legislation, and programs and services should be developed keeping in mind that they should serve the best interests of all Manitobans, wherever they may be living in the province. It should not even matter how they voted in the elections. This is their government, and they have that God-given right to come to this government and ask for help from time to time.
But I wanted to focus my comments today on the discriminatory and unfair practices that this government employs when dealing with aboriginal people. Some of our people go so far as to say that a great majority of this legislation, laws, policies, and practices are racist. Of course, I am not allowed to describe any government activity in that light in this building, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but I do want to say that I am in agreement with those of my people who hold that view. Why? Well, I can probably explain why by asking some questions, questions that have been asked by myself and, certainly, by my people.
Let me start off by asking simply: why is it that this government refuses to include unemployment rate numbers amongst our people in the overall unemployment rate for Manitoba? Why? Do our people not account for anything in the eyes of this government? The government knows full well that the unemployment rate for Manitoba, the way that this government produces the reports, is false. It is a big lie, because the unemployment rate in the North, remote aboriginal communities go as high as 90 percent, and the government knows that. The member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine) knows that fully well.
When the government reduced welfare rates by 21 percent, did it not realize that that rate of reduction actually meant a 33 percent and more reduction in welfare rates when applied in the remote northern environment?
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Let me ask the government another question, Mr. Deputy Speaker, if it is aware of another fact. That is, according to a study that was conducted by MKO and others some three years ago, it was determined that in the comparison of food costs between Winnipeg and northern Manitoba, the cost of food was much higher in northern Manitoba than in Winnipeg.
For example, Split Lake--I think most government members will know where Split Lake is. In any event, the cost of food in Split Lake was 39 percent higher than Winnipeg. Gods River was 70 percent higher, and, you know what, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Lac Brochet was 88 percent higher than Winnipeg.
Now, imagine yourself, try to imagine for yourself, if you are on welfare where the unemployment rate is 90 percent and the only form of employment that is there is the band office, the school, maybe the RCMP, the Northern Store. Try to imagine. You are on welfare and it gets cut 20 percent in the south, but it really means that for you it means 33 percent. It must be hard to try to survive that way and try to be healthy at the same time.
We ask another question. Why is this government refusing to treat aboriginal people as citizens of Manitoba? Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would not be asking this question today if every time aboriginal people came to the government, to this building, to this Legislature seeking help and looking for somebody to listen to them, they were not told that they were a federal responsibility and that this government had nothing to do with them. Why? Do you blame our people for feeling that they are being discriminated against?
For example, the REDI program, the program is much touted by the Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Derkach) from time to time, but when aboriginal people tried to make application to the REDI program, the minister responded by saying: because you are on Indian reserves, this program is not applicable.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, what do you call that practice when you discriminate against aboriginal people because it is applicable anywhere else in Manitoba except on Indian reserves? The only reason that the Minister of Rural Development can give me is because you are on an Indian reserve.
The fishing industry in the North has been virtually abandoned by this government. I would invite the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Downey) to accompany me to Grand Rapids, Easterville, Moose Lake, Pukatawagan, South Indian Lake, and see for himself first-hand what I am talking about. The fishing industry has been abandoned by this government. They have said do not worry about those people. They are aboriginal people. They belong to the federal government, and we have nothing to do with them.
I am not surprised that the fishing industry in the North has been ignored by this government, because the majority of those fishermen from up there are aboriginal people. This government followed the federal government in its elimination of the northern freight subsidy program. Hydro and forest plants have played a major role in the way that the fishing industry has deteriorated in the North.
But, you know, whenever we raise these issues in this Chamber, in Estimates, Question Period, we get the same answer as the member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine) just gave earlier, and that is, it is your fault. You are responsible. It is your fault for living in the North. It is your fault for being unemployed, and it is your fault for being on welfare. It is your fault that the rate of unemployment in Shamattawa is 90 percent.
What does he expect us to do, Mr. Deputy Speaker? Does he expect everybody in the North to all get up, pack up and move south to Winkler and Morris and Altona? Is that what he wants us to do?
We did not come from anywhere else to move to the North; we were born there. We are indigenous to that area. That is why I take exception when government members say--and the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Newman) said the same thing in Estimates last year. When I asked him about infrastructure in remote northern communities, he said: well, we are not going to spend money in a remote area where there are only a few families. The Premier (Mr. Filmon), during the flood, said: well, it is your fault for living in a flood plain, you know; and now the member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine) says it is your fault that you are unemployed, you should take responsibility.
Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we know, we agree, we realize that each of us is responsible for our own destiny, but do you know what? I get really annoyed when I hear statements being uttered in the way that the member for Sturgeon Creek made those statements a while ago--take responsibility for your actions--because I am reminded of I have to go and vote before seven o'clock tonight on OCN's Treaty Land Entitlement Framework Agreement.
And do you know what, when the member for Sturgeon Creek says take responsibility, if we had all of the resources that went away with the transfer of land to the federal and provincial governments whenever the treaties were made, I would be the one standing here today telling the member for Sturgeon Creek to take responsibility for his own destiny. Thank you.
Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Well, the opposition House leader wants to call it six o'clock. Shall I call six o'clock? Okay, six o'clock, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is it the will of the House to call it six o'clock? [agreed]
When this matter is again before the House, the honourable minister will have 15 minutes remaining.
The hour now being six o'clock, this House is now adjourned and stands adjourned until tomorrow (Thursday) at 10 a.m.
Vol. XLVIII No. 36B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, April 23, 1998, page 2158, second column, third paragraph, fourth sentence, Ms. Friesen's comments should read:
Alberta is very, and justly, proud of that, and yet here we have a Manitoba Measures business plan which the minister is trying to tell me I should vote on and yet it is confidential.