4th-36th Vol. 57-Oral Questions

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Madam Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have this afternoon eighteen Grade 5 students from F.W. Gilbert School under the direction of Ms. Jamie Davison. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Health (Mr. Praznik).

We also have fifteen Grades 1 to 9 students from the Ministic School under the direction of Ms. Sherri Perih and Miss Amber Kehler. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson).

Also, we have twelve Grade 9 students from Walter Whyte School under the direction of Mrs. Joan Cooney. This school is also located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Health (Mr. Praznik).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, in 1993 the Premier (Mr. Filmon) stated that, quote, foster parents can be replaced. He was responding to the cuts his government was making to the foster home rates here in Manitoba. His minister then stated that we want to have less children in care. Regrettably, we have more children in care on a per capita basis in Manitoba than anywhere else in Canada, and regrettably, 71,000 child-nights were spent in hotels and shelters last year at a cost of $124 a day, eight times greater than the cost of foster homes.

I would like to ask the Premier: have his policies for children failed in that we have had more costs going to hotels and short-term shelters and less resources going into long-term care and foster homes for our kids in Manitoba?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): I thank my honourable friend for that question because it does allow me to indicate that we have been working very closely with the Winnipeg agency over the last year. The numbers of children that were in hotel rooms last year were unacceptable. We have been working on a day-to-day basis with the Winnipeg agency to ensure that those numbers are down. I know that today we have less children in hotels, although the number does fluctuate from one day to the next, but there has been a concentrated effort to ensure that children are in alternate placements other than hotels. Madam Speaker, there has been a significant improvement as a result of that initiative.

Caseloads

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, the Child and Family Services management has said this is not an ideal way to operate. The children need a family environment. Front-line workers have said it has never been this bad. It is chronic. It is a scandal what is happening with aboriginal children in terms of the cuts that were made by this government and by this Premier (Mr. Filmon) on extended families.

They go on to say that the caseloads are twice as high as the expected standards across North America. How can this minister talk about prevention when their workers are so overworked with children in care that they have no time left in Manitoba to do preventative care in our communities, as they should also do in Child and Family Services?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): It is true that we have asked our Child and Family Services system to be all things to all children in the past. Madam Speaker, I am more interested in ensuring that we put the dollars up front so that children will not need the child welfare system in the future in the significant ways that they have in the past, because I agree that the number of children in care in Manitoba per capita is unacceptable. I am more interested in putting the money up front and ensuring that the community, through community partnerships, is looking to the early intervention programs that will not have need for the child welfare system in the future.

Mr. Doer: This is a heartless government that cut, for 80 percent of the children on welfare, Madam Speaker, their food benefits by 19 to 24 percent. We do not need lectures from the heartless Tories across the way on dealing with children at the earliest stages.

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Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, their own report goes on to say that the main causes of driving children into care are child poverty and lone parents. The report goes on to say that lone parents have gone up 11 percent under this government in the last three years. It goes on to say that we have the highest child poverty rate in Canada. It goes on to say that there is nothing that this government is doing in terms of the socioeconomic conditions for kids that will change the situation for five years. How can this minister feign interest for kids and this Premier (Mr. Filmon) feign interest for kids in dealing with prevention when their own report says it is five years that will continue in terms of the desperate economic and social conditions leading kids into care?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): The document that my honourable friend is quoting from is part of surveys and studies that were funded by our government, because in fact we believe that we needed to look in a very significant way to how we change the child welfare system and how we deliver services to families and children in a significant way. We have listened to all the research, the Fraser Mustards, and all of those people that have indicated to us that a dollar spent in early intervention and prevention saves us $7 down the road in taxpayers' expenditures. That is exactly why we have put $20 million into early intervention to try to prevent adolescent pregnancy, to try to prevent children that are growing up in dysfunctional families, by ensuring that the supports are there so they will not need the child welfare system.

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, Winnipeg Child and Family Services says that the average caseload per worker is 38, but Mr. Rob Oberlin, testifying at the inquest into the death of baby Schmidt, had a caseload of 48 deaths. Since this minister will not have a review--[interjection] Forty-eight children on the caseload. Will this minister, since she will not have a review of the workload, investigate and see if there is a correlation between an excessively high number of cases per social worker and child deaths, which seems to be the case that we are finding out at this inquest?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): The same document that honourable friends in the opposition have been quoting from and the document that Prairie Research did, the operational review, are one and the same document. I want to quote a part of that document, Madam Speaker, that says: the result is that measures such as 40 cases per worker have no meaning and cannot be used to justify the need for more resources. It is true that some staff are very burdened; equally others are probably not. The survey of staff revealed that many respondents, over 40 percent of the staff respondents, believe that workloads are unfairly shared.

Madam Speaker, that is exactly the issue that Winnipeg Child and Family Services is trying to address through their strategic planning process.

Mr. Martindale: Will the Minister of Family Services, who must have read the story in the Free Press about the testimony at the inquest wherein the special prosecutor asked Mr. Humniski if he had any recommendations to improve the Child and Family Services procedures and prevent a tragedy--he said something had to be done about the workloads workers face; he said the number of files each worker has prevents them from doing the work they should be doing. Will the minister take this testimony seriously, and will she do something about it in order to prevent future tragedies?

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Mrs. Mitchelson: I think the issue that my honourable friend just raised is the same issue that workers raised when the operational review was done, and that is that staff said that some staff are very burdened and equally others probably are not. The survey revealed that staff believe that the workloads are unfairly shared, Madam Speaker, and that is exactly what the Winnipeg agency is trying to get at with its strategic planning process on how to deliver services in a better way to the children and families in Winnipeg.

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Can the Minister of Family Services, who says that the system is not working, tell us why? Since she has been the minister of this department for four years, the system that she is responsible for is not working. What is she going to do to ensure that children are protected and that improvements are made and no more cutbacks will happen that will adversely affect children? What is she going to do to accept her own responsibility?

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): I thank my honourable friend for that question, because again I want to be able to say to Manitobans that the issues today in Child and Family Services are significantly different and much more complex than they were in the past. The statistics that come from the Winnipeg agency indicate that over 60 percent of the children are of aboriginal descent. We need the aboriginal community involved in the solutions. That is exactly why, in our early intervention programs, we have partnered with the aboriginal community, aboriginal youth in a very significant way to try to help find the solutions. I know it is one of the issues that the Winnipeg agency is grappling with. We will make every effort to try to ensure that the solutions that are found for the aboriginal children that are in care have participation from those leaders in the aboriginal community that can help us find the solutions.

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, Morden resource centre was eliminated, and a co-ordinator has become a protection worker. A community development position in Portage has been eliminated, and the position has become a protection worker. They are only a couple of examples of eliminated services in rural Manitoba.

Given that the minister was told in the 1993-94 annual report of Central Manitoba Family Services, and I quote: secondary prevention services funded through our operational grants have virtually been eliminated. A reasonable conclusion would be that, unless one funds prevention services, workloads in child protection will continue to increase.

Given that statement, I would like to ask the minister how she can say her government is not responsible for the rising caseloads in rural Manitoba.

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): I guess when we look right throughout the whole province, we recognize and realize that the issues affecting children and families are much more complex today than they ever have been in the past.

I think that the solutions involve not only government solutions but solutions involving the whole community. That is why we are looking at the early intervention programs and partnering with people and organizations within the community to help to find the solutions. Government does not have all of the answers, and no one expects them to. They expect that kind of partnership and the community working together with government to find the solutions and to find the solutions before children need the services of child welfare. That is exactly what we are doing with early intervention and the $20 million that we are putting in up front.

Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, given that today the Manitoba rate of protection workers to population is 1 to 6,000, double that of what it is in the city, caseload workers are as high as 1 to 40, and given that rural workers have to travel to see their clients, what step is the minister prepared to take to correct this situation within the agencies of rural Manitoba?

Mrs. Mitchelson: The whole process for new initiatives within my department and within government as a whole, through the Children and Youth Secretariat, are initiatives that involve community and involve community in solutions with government to try to ensure that families get off to a healthier start to life, that there is more money put into prevention up front. One dollar in prevention up front saves $7 later on in services that taxpayers need to pay.

We recognize and realize that all the research--

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Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Minister of Family Services, to complete her response.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Thank you, Madam Speaker. We are looking at wellness of families, rather than having to deal with families after the fact.

I know that my honourable friends across the way would rather see us pour money in after the fact. We choose and we have chosen in this year's budget to put the money up front and prevent the kinds of crises that families are experiencing as a result of not having that support in the initial years of life.

Ms. Wowchuk: Given that, because of cuts to prevention programs, her own report says that workers are closing files sooner in rural Manitoba because they do not have the resources to help and workers are afraid someone is going to get hurt, what is this minister prepared to do to reinstate preventative services in agencies in rural Manitoba?

Mrs. Mitchelson: Again, I repeat, I know my honourable friends across the way want to see us pour more money into Child and Family Services agencies, rather than putting money into the regional--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Rather than seeing the money go through regional health authorities to more public health nurses and more services in people's homes, rather than seeing money go into our child care centres and into people who will work right in the home with children and families, so they will not need the child protection services from the child welfare system.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Thompson is attempting to be recognized.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): Yes, Madam Speaker, Beauchesne Citation 417 is very clear: "Answers to questions should be as brief as possible, deal with the matter raised and should not provoke debate." What the minister has essentially been doing is repeating the same nonanswer five or six or seven times. The specific question was about services to rural Manitobans who are being impacted by the cuts that this government has put in place to children.

I would like to ask you to call the minister to order to answer the very serious question we are asking about kids in rural Manitoba.

Madam Speaker: The honourable government House leader, on the same point of order.

Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, the subject under question here today is a very serious matter. The Minister of Family Services is the only one in this House treating it that way. She is attempting to deal with the issues raised by honourable members, and as she does so in a very serious and, might I say, caring way, honourable members opposite continue to heckle from their seats in a very rude manner.

The honourable member is not raising a point of order with respect to the honourable minister's answers. She is dealing with the issues being raised.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. On the point of order raised by the honourable member for Thompson, to be absolutely certain, I will take the matter under advisement to research Hansard and determine the exact context of the question asked.

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Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, this Minister of Family Services has really abandoned her ministry, clear in a 62 percent increase in children in care, the highest poverty rates in Canada, cuts to preventative services for expectant parents. Clearly, this minister's practices show that she is the minister not of Family Services but of a few pilot projects.

So I would like to call on this minister today to take charge and responsibility, to become the full Minister of Family Services and not to continue as a pilot projects minister, take a look at the whole and not address a few of the parts.

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Madam Speaker, I would tend to make the observation, as a result of the questions that are being asked, that my honourable friends across the way are taking a very narrow view of providing services after the fact through the child welfare system, where we have taken the position that money up front is going to prevent the need for those child welfare services down the road. There is not any issue in the child welfare system that is not a serious issue, when families are living with dysfunction and children need to be protected and apprehended.

But I believe it is an issue beyond the services that the child welfare system can provide. We need public health involved; we need members of the justice system involved; we need members from the education community involved. What we are trying to do is take an holistic approach, unlike the quick-fix solutions that the opposition might talk about.

Ms. McGifford: Ten years is a long, long time.

Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): I want to ask this minister, who knows that pilot projects are narrow experimentations which involve a few, when she will relieve the horrific caseloads, reconsider child welfare and consult with her colleagues in Saskatchewan who actually know how to create a child welfare system that works.

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Madam Speaker, I honestly wish that we had a model of a child welfare system across this country that worked, that we could all follow and that we could all learn from, but it is not a reality. We always know--[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, I wish we did not have to have a child welfare system, because I wish that every family was happy and healthy right across the province of Manitoba. But the reality is that we need legislation to protect children. We need services available to those children, but we want to make the attempt--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Minister of Family Services, to complete her response.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Yes, thank you, Madam Speaker. We are making the attempt to try to ensure that families are healthier up front with the significant investment that we are placing in children and families today. God knows, the system has not worked in the past, and we have to make every attempt to try new ways of doing things and try to ensure that the resources that we are putting in place are the resources that are going to help families and children.

Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, given a child welfare system that does not work, 10 lost years in child welfare and the snip, snip, snip, cut, cut, cut Tory mentality, I would like to ask this minister how she plans to restore the faith of Manitobans in her ministry.

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Madam Speaker, $63 million, an increase of over 50 percent over the last five years, is not a cut to Winnipeg Child and Family--[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, $20 million in early intervention up front is not a cut; that is an increase. We will continue to put the resources in where they are needed to try to keep families together and families happy and healthy. I make absolutely no apologies for that.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, the Minister of Family Services concluded: by keeping families together and keeping families happy. The thoughts that go through my mind are the government's gambling policy and the negative social consequence of that particular policy.

My question is for the Minister responsible for Lotteries, and that is: does the government have any intentions of dealing with the whole issue of reallocation of VLTs into more fair areas so that we do not have VLTs in every community scattered throughout the province?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, we had a Lottery Policy Review Committee back in 1996, chaired by Mr. Larry Desjardins, that made a series of recommendations of which we accepted the majority of them. In fact, we went beyond those recommendations, and in the case of VLTs in Manitoba, we reduced them by some 10 percent. At the same time, we indicated that the issue of VLTs would be reviewed every two years in Manitoba, and that review process is currently going to be underway in 1998 by the independent Gaming Commission here in Manitoba.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, following from one of the responses the minister just finished giving, the minister indicated 10 percent reduction in VLTs.

My question to the minister is: does he factor in also slot machines as VLT machines, or are those something completely different, because my understanding is that the slot machine numbers have actually gone up?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, the 10 percent figure, I believe, relates to all machines, which are both VLT and slot machines, but they were taken totally out of the VLT stream which are the ones that are in facilities like lounges, licensed lounges and so on. But, again, I do not believe the member is correct when he refers to a current increase in slot machines. I believe the levels of slot machines are the same as they have been for many years, the same as they were at the time of the study done by the independent Lottery Policy Review Committee chaired by Mr. Desjardins.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, I will have to confirm that. My follow-up supplementary question to the minister is--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Would the honourable member please put his question now.

Mr. Lamoureux: Yes. Will the Minister responsible for Lotteries make a commitment as to what this government's position is with respect to the whole issue of reallocation of VLTs, not with the Gaming Commission? Does this government support the recommendation or the belief that we need to start reallocating, relocating VLT machines in the province?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, first of all, the issue of reviewing the VLT issue every two years was something that was announced on the heels of receipt of the Larry Desjardins Lottery Policy Review Committee. So we did indicate then that that review would take place every two years in Manitoba. I believe it is a responsible thing to do.

If the member is referring to moving VLTs within the current maximum allocation, there currently is no plan to do that that I am aware of, Madam Speaker.

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Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, if anything was learned from the Holiday Haven tragedy, it was that the Department of Health ought to take investigations of concerns, when raised, seriously and in some cases not accept the view of management in terms of the problems that are occurring. I continue to get complaints by patients and others about problems with the VON nursing service, not with the staff but with missed calls, with double calls and with serious problems being experienced by clients out there.

I am asking the Minister of Health if he is prepared to send in a team from the Department of Health to examine the management and operations of VON.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, first of all, the issue that the member has raised with me, from all reports that I have we are certainly aware of that difficulty, and he brings information that I have confirmed from other sources.

As the delivery of home care is within the jurisdiction now of the Winnipeg Long Term Care Authority, we have indicated very clearly to the CEO of that authority that they should be doing what they need to do to ensure that patients receive the care that is required, and if that involves sending in a team to work with the VON, if that involves gearing up their own staff to take more of the role that the VON is playing today, then so be it. They have the authority to do that to ensure patient care is properly delivered.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, the minister has indicated that he has given the authority to the Long Term Care Authority to carry out some activities. Can the minister indicate whether or not, as the issue is of a serious nature, this authority that he has given to the Long Term Care Authority, in fact, will be taken out and a team will be sent in to VON, not just to examine patient care, but I might add that VON for the past two months has not paid, until Friday, the Blue Cross of all their employees, and many employees actually tried to claim the benefits and were not able to because of the chaos at VON management. Is he now authorizing his staff to move in there?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the Victorian Order of Nurses is a private organization. I do not have the legal authority to move in to take over their operation. If they, in fact--well, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) looks somewhat perplexed by that comment, but that is in fact true. I do have the legal authority, where a personal care home or a hospital is at risk, to be able to make that move, but that is not the case with a home care provider. So their board of directors would have to allow that to happen. If they do not, then, quite frankly, and if they are not able to deliver service, they are not living up to their contractual obligations, and the Winnipeg Long Term Care Authority is certainly then free to find alternative ways of delivering that service.

The member's assessment of the problem, I think, has been fairly accurate. I think as he, I would hope, would appreciate, we do not just have the legal authority to take over that organization unless it is a voluntary secession of management authority.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): In addition, Madam Speaker, is the minister prepared today to write to MARN, the professional body of the nurses, either jointly or singly by the minister asking them to move in, to look at the nursing situation in order to protect the situation of nurses who find themselves in some cases in an untenable situation?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): The concern, particularly with respect to missed appointments, has been the key concern of the Winnipeg Long Term Care Authority. Certainly, if there are professional standards issues involved, MARN has a role to play. Again, it is a private organization with a private board of directors, but I think very clearly from the question the member asked me a few days ago, I think the signal we have sent through this Legislature and through the Winnipeg Long Term Care Authority is we expect organizations like the VON, who have a contract to provide services, to deliver those services. If they are unable to do so at an adequate level, then the authority responsible has to make other arrangements. That is the power that the Winnipeg Long Term Care Authority has and I expect will carry out.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, we have learned in the last two days from spokespeople in the industry that Linnet Graphics was indeed sold for a song, in their view.

Madam Speaker, given that Linnet had a loan of $200,000 from this government which was apparently forgiven, it had never paid interest on the loan, it did not meet any of the job creation targets--and I will table the job creation targets that the company had proposed. Of some 360 jobs it was proposing, it had 60 at the end of its ownership in the public sector, and that is fewer jobs than it had two years ago.

Madam Speaker, why was this company forgiven a $200,000 loan? Was that part of the deal with the Finance minister's brother-in-law?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Speaker, first of all, I would like to put clearly on the record that the negotiations that started with Linnet Graphics started far prior to this government getting into office. It was the previous administration that had started negotiations. The New Democratic administration, prior to our being elected in 1988, was when the initial agreement started to be developed.

To deal specifically with the question as it relates to the company and the jobs, today there are some 60-plus people working in the province of Manitoba that were not working prior to the arrangements that were made and the establishment of this company in the province of Manitoba. It has been sold. It has been sold for a profit for the people of Manitoba, of which the $200,000 was taken, or when you calculate it, we still made $234,000 for the people of Manitoba after the loan was in fact deducted from the amount that was received.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, will the minister, who knows that the agreement was signed in 1989, that the draft agreement had only been entered into a year before and not years before, will he tell the House why he has forgiven a loan to this company when the company did not meet the job creation targets, did not ever pay any interest on its loan? Now we have forgiven a loan and reduced our stake in the company to far below the market value. Why did we forgive this loan? It did not meet the targets. Is that the way you do business?

Mr. Downey: Madam Speaker, just to correct the record, discussions had started prior to 1988 with Linnet Graphics as it related to making a deal to make sure the company was in fact carrying out business in the province of Manitoba.

The former New Democratic Party had in fact started discussions with the company before this government was in fact elected in 1988. The decision was made that the company is providing 60-plus jobs in the province of Manitoba. It is creating activities here that would not have been in the province of Manitoba. They have to maintain their office here for five years, and we believe that the deal that was negotiated is a good one on behalf of the people of Manitoba.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, the minister has not answered the question. The question is: why did the minister forgive a loan, the conditions of which were never met by the company, the job creation targets were never even approached by the company, no interest was paid, and yet at the end of the day, we forgive a $200,000 loan, and according to industry sources, sell the company for a song? He has not answered why the government did this.

Mr. Downey: Madam Speaker, the member is well aware of the fact that the province had certain programs where in fact there were forgivable loans for providing certain benefits to the province of Manitoba. The decision was made by the government that the benefits that the province received by having a company here with some 60-plus employees--[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Downey: Madam Speaker, if the member wants to keep talking, it is difficult to answer the questions.

We got far more benefit out of Linnet Graphics than we did out of ManOil, that lost $16 million from the people of Manitoba, and MTX, that lost $29 million in Saudi Arabia. I will put our deal against theirs any time.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Actually, Madam Speaker, I have a question. But if you want, I could raise a point of order on the last answer. I just thought it spoke for itself.

Madam Speaker: I apologize. I just assumed the honourable member for Thompson was up on a point of order.

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Mr. Ashton: Madam Speaker, airport access is critical in northern communities, and nowhere is that more true than in Thompson. Right now we are in a position where negotiations have broken off between the City of Thompson and the federal government related to the future of the airport, and the mayor of Thompson has made it very clear that essentially the federal government is refusing to negotiate and is trying to force the City of Thompson to take over the airport in a very untenable situation. The City of Thompson is asking the provincial government to get involved. I would like to join that call, and I would like to ask the Minister of Highways and Transportation: will he get directly involved in putting pressure on the federal government to be reasonable and come up with an agreement which will not result in the closure of the Thompson airport as soon as the year 2000?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, the federal government made decisions without consultation with the provinces or affected communities to institute the national airports policy which in Manitoba involved, I believe it was seven different airports that they wanted to devolve to local communities. They have actually achieved that with every airport except Thompson, and there are some ongoing issues under discussion. Hopefully, discussions can be maintained between Thompson and the federal government to reach a conclusion that is good for the Thompson airport and the region of Thompson.

Mr. Ashton: Well, Madam Speaker, will the minister take action now, given the fact that negotiations have broken off and the City of Thompson has made it very clear there are no real negotiations going on, only ultimatums being forwarded to the city? Will the minister speak out by speaking directly to the federal government and urging them to be reasonable and come out with an agreement that suits the needs of the city of Thompson?

Mr. Findlay: Madam Speaker, as with all airports involved in this devolution process, we will assist where and when possible, but we will not accept, as a province, federal responsibilities. Clearly, there is an issue with regard to ongoing capital maintenance of an airstrip that is federal responsibility which they should not be allowed out of, and we will support that particular principle.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): My final question is to the Premier, who has been saying do something. I am doing something; I am raising it. I would like to ask the Premier: will he do something? I realize he has not been close to Thompson for the last little while, certainly close to the airport, but will he raise the issue with the federal government? I am raising this, not criticizing the provincial government. I am pointing the finger where it belongs at the federal government, but I am asking the Premier and the provincial government to get involved and support the city of Thompson.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Obviously the minister has explained carefully, I think, to the member for Thompson where the jurisdiction lies. The jurisdiction lies with the federal government who has unilaterally decided to offload the responsibility to the local municipal jurisdiction, and he is pointing out that, as the member for Thompson, the member for Thompson should be appealing directly to the federal Minister of Transport. That is where the jurisdiction lies. We would just like him to understand that so he can better serve the needs of his people by understanding where the jurisdiction lies.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.