4th-36th Vol. 58-Oral Questions

Madam Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have this afternoon twenty-two Grade 11 students from Sisler High under the direction of Mr. Chris Bandfield. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux).

We also have twenty-four Grades 4 and 5 students from Balmoral Hall School under the direction of Ms. Caroline Knowles and Ms. Christine Kowalec. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Wolseley (Ms. Friesen).

Also, we have twenty-four Grade 8 students from Munroe Junior High under the direction of Mrs. Laura Black. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

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Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, in 1996 the government changed the policy dealing with MPI deductibles to extend those deductibles for victims of car thefts here in Manitoba. In debate last year we raised our objections to this change which we thought was making the victims pay twice. This last period of time I have met with an individual who has been labelled by the media as a Good Samaritan who stopped his vehicle on Highway 6 in March of this year to help three young people who looked like they were in trouble. He was assaulted by these three young people. His vehicle was stolen, and to add insult to injury, the individual was told by MPI that the deductible of $500 will apply.

I would like to ask the government today, with the MPI announcement, will they be reversing this policy on deductibles for victims of car thefts.

Hon. James McCrae (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, Manitoba Public Insurance has partnered with police agencies to assist in making our streets and highways safer places for Manitoba motorists. We have partnered also to ensure that the burgeoning car theft industry could be brought to a halt. The growth in that industry has stopped, and now we are working towards reducing the incidence of car thefts.

With respect to the deductible about which the honourable Leader of the Opposition asks, those Manitobans carrying extended coverage in this particular coverage year do not pay the deductible. Those who maintain only the basic coverage do pay the deductible in recognition of the principle that insurance is a partnership between the ratepayer and the insurance company.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, this government changed the policy in 1996. The deductible was not applied to victims of car thefts here in Manitoba. This individual, whom I have mentioned, a constituent, who has been named by one media outlet as a Good Samaritan, does not want his name used, but he feels that he has been victimized three times: once, when his vehicle was stolen; twice, when his throat was slashed by the alleged assaulters; and a third time now by our own Manitoba Crown corporation.

I asked the government last year. They did not call this a rate increase when the deductibility was changed, a fact pointed out by the automobile association. Why will it not put all its resources into stopping car thefts instead of putting some of the fees and expenses back on victims?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, there are a number of objectives that the Manitoba Public Insurance wishes to achieve with its policies. If the honourable member needs to be reminded, I can tell him that, as of last year, Manitobans paid the second-lowest premiums across the country for auto insurance on an overall basis and that, with the bringing in of a $700 deductible in the province of Saskatchewan, we can now say that overall Manitobans pay the lowest rate of insurance in Canada, and that we have the most comprehensive set of benefits almost anywhere in North America.

That being said, I am quite sympathetic with the matter the honourable member raises. The fact situation is unique, and I am sure no one setting policy ever had intended that someone in a Good Samaritan situation like the one the honourable member refers to would have thought of that particular type of incident when setting policies. I do not know what I can do in this case, but I certainly would be pleased to investigate the matter further.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, we are pleased that the publicly administered, publicly run auto insurance operations in Canada, in Saskatchewan and in Manitoba, do produce the lowest rates in North America, and again speaks well to the whole issue of public ownership of that Crown entity.

Madam Speaker, when the change was made by the previous government, the Public Insurance Corporation executives said it is unfortunate that innocent victims will have to spend more money. It is unfortunate that we have gone from 2,400 car thefts in Manitoba in 1992 to some 9,800 car thefts in '96. I know that Manitoba has the highest per capita car thefts in Canada. I know that Winnipeg is lower than Vancouver in terms of national comparisons, but we believe it sends the wrong message to victims. Surely public Crown corporations can have a consistent message for victims of crime that we purport to have in other areas of government. Surely we should not make the victims of car thefts, if they have acted responsibly, subject to deductibles. Will the government, again, look at these policies that unfairly victimize victims twice in Manitoba?

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Mr. McCrae: Well, as I said, Madam Speaker, thanks to the efforts of Winnipeg Police and funded by Manitoba Public Insurance as a Crown-owned insurance company, we have seen car-theft activities levelling off in Manitoba, unlike in B.C. and Saskatchewan where we, unlike what the honourable member said, see actually worse rates than we do in Manitoba. I am not saying that to say that the rates of car thefts in Manitoba are acceptable, because they are not, and that is why efforts by the Justice department, by police authorities and MPI are directed towards this particular problem.

But, you know, the honourable member says that we enjoy low rates and comprehensive benefits because of public ownership. Maybe it has a little something to do with good stewardship. If we go back to the days of the Doer-Pawley administration, we know very well what happened with rates at Autopac. It was this government that made Autopac accountable to the Public Utilities Board, not honourable members opposite, and nothing to do with public ownership.

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, yesterday in Question Period the Minister of Family Services said that she wished that she had a model of child welfare that Manitoba could follow. Perhaps the minister would like to look at the Province of Saskatchewan where they have half the number of children in care as Manitoba in spite of a similar population base. They have no children in hotels. They have had no cuts to foster care rates, and they have had no cuts to welfare. I would like to ask the Minister of Family Services if she would be willing to study the Saskatchewan model and if she can figure out why they are so much more successful in keeping children out of care than Manitoba.

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): I thank my honourable friend for that question. I do want to indicate that, just as little as half an hour ago or so, I was speaking to a minister in Saskatchewan and we were talking about the issues around child welfare. He was certainly expressing the same kinds of concerns and issues in Saskatchewan as we experience in Manitoba. I do want to indicate that, contrary to what my honourable friend might put on the record, our foster rates are higher in Manitoba than they are in Saskatchewan; they are higher in Manitoba than they are in Alberta, and that is looking at just the basic rate. I want to indicate that children are assessed on an individual basis when they need placement in care through Winnipeg Child and Family Services or any other agency, and in addition to the basic foster rate, which is higher than Saskatchewan's and higher than Alberta's, children get additional supports that they need to continue to try to find a better way of life.

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Will the Minister of Family Services, who knows that we have dozens of children in hotels and dozens of children, averaging 60 to 65 a night, in four-bed units, devise a strategy, any strategy, to get children out of temporary placements and into foster homes and into permanent homes? What is this minister going to do to reduce the unacceptably high number of children in temporary placements?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): That is exactly the issue that is being addressed by both my department and the Winnipeg agency. As a result of the high numbers of children in hotel placements last year, we put in place a process where, on a day-by-day basis, both my department and Winnipeg Child and Family Services agency review the issues surrounding every child in hotels, Madam Speaker, and we have been very successful in moving people or children out of those circumstances. Although we have not been able to clear the issue up completely, we have had a significant impact.

I do know there are still some issues around the long-term placements in hotels, but those are not children who can go into foster care at the basic rate. Those are children with exceptional needs, and the recruitment of foster parents for those children is an ongoing issue and one that we are attempting to address.

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, will the Minister of Family Services respond to one of the concerns raised in the strategic planning workshop document released this week and consider, in spite of the fact that this document says that Manitoba has refused to proclaim an adoption maintenance subsidy, an adoption maintenance subsidy like other provinces have, so that we can get children out of temporary placements and into a sense of permanency in family homes? Will this minister act on this recommendation?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Madam Speaker, I want to correct for the record that this was not a document that was produced at the strategic planning session. This was a document that was put together by the agency in preparation for strategic planning on how to fix the issues and solve the problems. I make no apologies for the Winnipeg agency going through that process, and I am sure that as a result of that, we will see significant changes in the way we deliver child welfare in the city of Winnipeg.

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Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, unfortunately, Manitobans are faced with a spectacle of United States clinics advertising on television in Winnipeg telling Winnipeggers and other Manitobans to go down to receive MRI, CAT scans and ultrasound tests in the United States because of unacceptable waiting lists. Unfortunately, the minister's own Winnipeg Regional Health Authority says, and I quote, in Manitoba, waiting lists for ultrasound, CT and MRI are significantly longer than those in other Canadian cities. We have been saying this year after year after year, minister after minister.

My question to the Minister of Health is: will you put in place a system to deal with the unacceptable waiting lists in the interim period until your grand scheme unfolds, the grand scheme that has been promised, version 3 or 4, now for some time? Will you put in place a temporary stop-gap measure to deal with people, so they do not have to go to Grafton, North Dakota, as the TV ads have said?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, not only is the answer to that question yes, but it is also that we have done that this winter. That was part of the initial tranche of dollars that was provided to Dr. Blake McClarty. We have our waiting lists going down in all of those particular areas of CT scans, ultrasounds. We have increased the hours of operation on various diagnostic equipment in our community hospitals, and week by week, month by month, we are seeing improvements in those lists.

As the Winnipeg Hospital Authority takes over its role in diagnostics--and part of the plan that was unveiled the last couple of weeks calls for a 15 percent increase, I believe, in the number of procedures to deal with backlogs, and that is moving through the approval stage. So the temporary plans have been put in place are underway, and the long-term solution is working its way through to also be put in place.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, will the minister's ad hoc plans which are not taking effect, endeavour today and promise this House that he will write to all of the doctors in Manitoba, outline specifically what his plan is so that those doctors--and I have talked to them--who are giving their patients the number for the Grafton clinic will not have to do so and will know that they will be able to get their services here in Manitoba expeditiously without having to send patients to Grafton, North Dakota?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, first of all, the member says ad hoc plans. The plans were developed by Dr. Blake McClarty who has a responsibility in that area for diagnostics. He developed a plan last winter at our request. We put the funding in place. Staff have been hired. Where staff have not been, they are because they are completing training programs. I know one of the issues that arose in developing this plan was that a class of technicians, I believe, graduates in August, and we are awaiting that to add to our capacity to deliver more services.

The member referenced MRIs. I am pleased to indicate that this year, in fact within a few weeks, we hope to be opening the new MRI at the Health Sciences Centre. We have two new MRIs coming in at St. Boniface, one a replacement, one a new one. So all of the work, all of the planning is there, and it is coming to fulfilment.

Madam Speaker, if anyone is advising patients that they have to go to Grafton, I would suggest that is not representative of the Manitoba reality as the plan unfolds and develops.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, will the minister not agree that the minister's pronouncements, like those on Betaseron and getting covered for Betaseron and like those on waiting lists that we have heard month after month and year after year, the time between the minister's pronouncement and the actual implementation of the plan is usually so lengthy that people suffer and have to wait on waiting lists? We know the MRIs are coming on maybe later on in the year. I am asking him: what commitment will the minister make in writing to doctors in Manitoba and to patients in writing to indicate specifically when those commitments will come on stream, and what will be done in the interim? If you are willing to do ads and hire public relations people, why will you not put in writing your commitments to reduce those waiting--

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Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, the member references Betaseron. Our commitment was to fund the MS Clinic to run the program. We cannot help it that the MS Clinic, which had two physicians when they undertook the project, now has one, and that has caused a delay. [interjection] Well, the member says I cannot help it.

I cannot produce a neurologist with that expertise overnight. I do not have one in a hat; I do not have one in a closet; I do not have one I can pull out to put in place. When we negotiated the arrangements with the MS Clinic, they had two physicians. They now have one. That one physician is going to be away for a period of time to attend a conference. That is something that none of us in this Chamber can prevent, and we have provided the authority to do whatever is possible to solve that particular problem.

Madam Speaker, the information is there. It is available to physicians. The regular routes of conveying information on scheduling are there. If any physician is telling their patients to book, given what is happening, I would just hope that it is not happening as part of other negotiations with respect to doctors' remuneration.

Madam Speaker: Prior to recognizing the honourable member for Elmwood, with the House's indulgence, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the loge to my right where we have with us this afternoon Mr. Dave Blake, the former member for Minnedosa.

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

I would like to ask the minister: would he define "vendor presence" and explain to the bidders, who were not given a definition, why it counted for more points than price?

Hon. Frank Pitura (Minister of Government Services): Madam Speaker, I think the honourable member has to--I share some information with him to try to get the area that he is questioning clarified for him. The Manitoba government entered into a 66-month contract with Systemhouse. The total cost of that contract was approximately $143 million over the length of the contract. The incremental costs over that same period of time in the entire contract are in the neighbourhood of $30 million to $35 million.

So the member is asking in terms of the contract evaluation criteria, and I must say that in terms of most, if not all, contracts that the provincial government has with potential suppliers of services and/or product, there is a contract evaluation criteria that is put into place with respect to each time a request for proposal is put out. This is not unlike any other government across this country or any other jurisdiction, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): The minister again refuses to answer the question. I would like to ask the minister a supplementary. Can he confirm that several companies, including at least one Manitoba company, quoted lower prices than IBM for the actual hardware provided? Can he confirm that?

Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, honourable members sometimes do this. They do not do their homework, and they come to the Legislature and ask ministers to confirm certain information.

Madam Speaker: On a point of order?

Mr. McCrae: Yes, on a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is the member's duty and responsibility to bring forward information and put it before the House and then ask questions about whatever he wants to as a result. But to ask ministers to confirm, I believe, is out of order.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Burrows, on the same point of order.

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Mr. Doug Martindale (Deputy Opposition House Leader): Madam Speaker, on the same point of order, I think this question is entirely in order and the government House leader is wrong. We are asking questions about the expenditure of $150 million. Surely that is in order.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Inkster, on the same point of order.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): I think the government House leader is somewhat confused. You cannot pose possibly a hypothetical question. That might be in order to stand up on a point of order and suggest that it is out of order, but to pose a question of the government of the nature that has been posed, there is definitely nothing wrong, I would suggest, Madam Speaker, because what you will find is that 50 percent of the questions that are asked are in fact of the very same, typical nature.

Madam Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable government House leader, indeed I will take the matter under advisement so I can research Hansard to check the exact wording of the question by the honourable member for Elmwood.

Mr. Maloway: Madam Speaker, my supplementary to the same minister is: would the minister release the point system and totals and confirm that several companies, including at least one Manitoba company, quoted lower prices than IBM for the actual hardware provided?

Mr. Pitura: Madam Speaker, I have shared with the member across the way the contract evaluation criteria that were used in the selection process. I have taken the liberty, as well, of taking the honourable member with me over to the operation centre to show him how the system of a managed system works. I am sure that the honourable member is quite aware of the reasons behind the approach taken by the provincial government with regard to having a managed environment, desktop environment, so that we can face the issues of data transmission of facing the challenge of the year 2000. So I am sure that the honourable member is well aware of all these things that are happening.

But to help the member out even a bit more, the per seat cost for the managed environment, of the $141 million, is about $1,760 per seat per year. For the standard office suite, it is $97 per seat per year. For the data communications charge, it is around $372 per seat per year. For e-mail services, it is $152 per seat per year. So I think the honourable member now has all the costs that he needs to know.

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Madam Speaker, once again the minister refuses to answer direct questions.

Madam Speaker: Question.

Mr. Maloway: My final supplementary to this minister is: would he give us the names and qualifications of the four individuals who reviewed and evaluated these proposals?

Hon. Frank Pitura (Minister of Government Services): Madam Speaker, again, I think I shared with the honourable member across the way what the total cost of the 66-month contract is. That is what it will cost taxpayers in this province, and because of the ongoing cost that we have on an annual basis, for each government department had nothing happened, therefore we can assign an incremental cost. That incremental cost is estimated to be $25 million to $30 million over the 66-month contract. So there is all the entire costs that are there for this entire contract, that is, with Systemhouse.

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Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): Ma question est pour le ministre responsable des services en français. J'aimerais tout d'abord féliciter le Commissaire l'honorable juge Richard Chartier pour un rapport dont les recommandations semblent, de prime abord, précises, et avant toute chose, de bon sens. De plus, il apparaît clairement que le processus de consultation utilisé par le juge Chartier était transparent et ouvert, allant même jusqu'à rencontrer le cabinet du gouvernement.

Madame la présidente, ma question au ministre est la suivante: dans l'esprit d'ouverture dégagé par le rapport Chartier, et considérant que le cabinet du gouvernement en connaît déjà très bien l'orientation des recommandations, quelle échéance et quelle date le ministre a-t-il fixées pour la mise en oeuvre de ces recommandations?

[Translation]

My question is for the Minister responsible for French Language Services. Firstly, I would like to congratulate the commissioner, Honourable Judge Richard Chartier, for a report whose recommendations seem, at first glance, precise and, above all, common sense. Further, it clearly shows that the consultation process used by Judge Chartier was transparent and open, even going so far as to meet with the government cabinet.

Madam Speaker, my question to the minister is the following: in the spirit of openness that emerges from the Chartier report, and given that the cabinet is already very familiar with the orientation of the recommendations, what time lines and what date has the minister set for the implementation of these recommendations?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister responsible for French Language Services): I thank my colleague from St. Boniface for the very important question.

It is our intention, as we indicated in our press release yesterday, that a committee of deputies in which the Clerk of the Executive Council is involved has been struck and will be reviewing the details of the particular recommendations to develop the implementation plan, including time lines. There are also other players involved with this recommendation, that being the board of directors of St. Boniface Hospital, which has a very significant role to play, along with the Winnipeg Hospital Authority, so they, of course, will have to be consulted as well. Our intention is that we can begin implementation in the fall. That should also be accompanied with a set of time lines for the completion of that process.

Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): Au même ministre, Madame la présidente: qui sont les membres du comité appointé par le ministre pour faire le suivi du rapport Chartier? Est-ce qu'ils sont des francophones?

[Translation]

To the same minister, Madam Speaker: who are the members of the committee appointed by the minister to do the follow up on the Chartier report? Are they Francophones?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister responsible for French Language Services): No, the committee is composed of deputy ministers led by, I believe, the Clerk of the Executive Council, who has had a significant role in the development and implementation in the policy over the years. The intention is to have those individuals who have to deliver the new services or bring about implementation of the proposals to be able to figure out what has to be done, what time line it can be done in, and are there any problems or difficulties that have to be overcome to achieve implementation of those recommendations. So it is important those people within government who have the responsibility to administer those program areas and services are at the table developing the implementation plan.

Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): Ma question supplémentaire: le ministre accepte-t-il la recommandation No 3 qui dit, et je cite: que des centres de services communautaires soient établis dans les régions désignées bilingues. Et quand et où verrons-nous l'ouverture du premier centre?

[Translation]

My supplementary question: does the minister accept recommendation No. 3 which reads, and I quote, that community service centres be set up in the designated bilingual areas, and when and where will we see the first centre opened?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister responsible for French Language Services): Madam Speaker, with respect to community service centres, if memory serves me correctly, I know many of my colleagues over the last while have been exploring that for general government services to have one-stop shopping. So the common-sense part of this proposal fits into some of the other plans we have been working on as government over the years. The concept, of course, is to make sure there is a centre where a person could at least access generalists who can get the information they need. In the current policy, there are many designated bilingual positions that are located in offices that are outside of Francophone communities and outside of the traffic pattern for those communities.

The detail of how we put that together, which would also include, I think, consideration for the union representing our employees and other issues, has to be developed, and that is the area, I think, which will require the most work in developing the implementation plan. But I can assure the member, once that work is completed, we will want to announce that information and time frame.

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, the recent cold weather, the frost and the threats of further frost show the vulnerable position Manitoba farmers are in, much more vulnerable than central Canada. It also shows clearly that farmers need stable funding safety net programs for income stabilization and risk management, as well as disaster relief. Given that the memorandum of understanding on farm safety nets is coming to an end and a new one must be negotiated, can the Minister of Agriculture tell this House how he is going to ensure that Manitoba farmers get a fair share of the money to ensure the risks that Manitoba farmers are facing are addressed equitably to other producers?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, first let me thank the honourable member for a timely question. It is indeed trying times for all too many of our farmers, who were looking forward to an early positive start to our year with the weather that we enjoyed, now are finding themselves fighting frost in some instances, too much rain in a few other instances, and drought, all at the same time. As she says, it points out the risks of prairie agriculture.

I can report to her that not only my officials but the coalition of people of different farm organizations have been working diligently for the last several months, have been in contact and are working, have had several meetings in Ottawa in preparation for the ministers of Agriculture conference to be held on the 1st of July in Niagara, Ontario, this year where the safety net package will be the No. 1 item on our list for deliberation.

Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Agriculture if he feels the position taken by Ontario farmers that allocation for safety net money should be allocated on the value of the product rather than on risk is an acceptable position, or is he prepared to ensure that the safety net programs that are brought in will address the risks that are so important to Manitoba farmers.

Mr. Enns: Madam Speaker, very directly to her question: no, I do not believe that that is in the interests of Manitoba farmers or prairie farmers. The prairie region has, as we are experiencing right now, very specific risks, higher risks, I might add, than those faced by the farmers in Ontario or British Columbia. Also, on the issue where we have a greater percentage of horticultural crops, higher-value crops, if you place the insurance envelope all on value, we tend to lose out, particularly if the federal government has a cap on their overall contribution to the safety net program. So we are working to maintain what we have, hopefully some improvements in the package as have been suggested by different groups.

I might add, Madam Speaker, that we are fortunate in Manitoba that over 80 percent of our agricultural land is covered by insurance, the highest subscription of any province of any jurisdiction in Canada.

Ms. Wowchuk: The minister has indicated that his staff and he have been working on negotiations. I would like to ask the minister if he is prepared to push for additional funding, for money, so we could have some of the disaster relief programs that other farm groups have asked for, and whether he will ensure that the federal government does not further renege on their responsibility to agriculture, as we have seen them do in the last budgets that they have presented.

Mr. Enns: Well, Madam Speaker, it is not difficult to agree with the honourable member for Swan River. First of all, I want to acknowledge, and I want to remind honourable members opposite, that I and the farmers of Manitoba appreciate very much that this government, at the conclusion of the GRIP program, directed very significant portions of that premium that went towards that program into what we call the Enhanced Crop Insurance Program. I attribute part of the reason why we have such a high subscription rate to the fact that that has made our basic crop insurance program relatively fairly attractive to most farmers.

So it is my hope to make that possible. The federal government also provided us with some transition monies. It is very important that we retain those transition dollars so that we can maintain the current level of the program, at best, in its current form, hopefully with some improvements to take in some additional crops, particularly in the horticultural area.

Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Highways and Transportation. As the minister knows, there are just three people working at the Coast Guard base in Selkirk. The federal government has recently spent over $5 million to renovate this base, and currently it has been leased out to a private boat manufacturer. The 12 staff of the Coast Guard boat, the Numao, have been laid off. Currently, to provide Coast Guard services on Lake Winnipeg and on the Red River, there are just two zodiac boats and another small boat. That is all that remains to provide this service.

Has this government conducted any studies of its own to determine what this would mean for commercial fishing, for sport fishing and for casual boaters on the Red River and Lake Winnipeg?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, the member raises an issue that is unfolding--again, federal decisions that may impact us in Manitoba. As the Department of Highways and Transportation, I will commit to the member that we will review the circumstances and what potential outcomes might happen that we would want to take action on.

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Mr. Dewar: Is the minister confident that there is adequate staff to operate the pollution containment equipment in case of a serious pollution spill, environmental spill on either the Red River or Lake Winnipeg?

Mr. Findlay: Madam Speaker, my first answer fits again. We will review the circumstances and determine if there are outcomes that the member is mentioning that need to be addressed. We will review.

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): My questions are also for the Minister of Highways and Transportation, further to my colleague's questions, the member for Selkirk, and he correctly pointed out that there have been job cuts at Selkirk.

I would like to ask the minister what the status of negotiations is with respect to dredging, and that dredging continues at the mouth of the Red River and also the major docks along Lake Winnipeg.

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): I do not have that information with me today. I will find out and report back to the member.

Mr. Robinson: I thank the minister for that response.

Another part of this is that the communities of Berens River, Pine Dock, Bloodvein, Poplar River, amongst others, depend on the services of a riverboat for virtually all groceries, goods and supplies. I would like to ask this government whether or not it acknowledges that dredging is very crucial to this region.

Mr. Findlay: Madam Speaker, supplying those communities with goods off the waterway is important. We recognize that very clearly. Part of our review that I have committed to, we will analyze the member's question and determine where and when we need to lobby for dredging services.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, could the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism tell the House when the monopoly enjoyed by Linnet Graphics expired and when the agreement for selling that company was entered into and signed?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): First of all, Madam Speaker, I do not agree that Linnet Graphics had any monopoly on anything. They were a company that was started in the province of Manitoba. With new technology, they are now creating some 60 jobs in the province of Manitoba. I could deal with the other--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Downey: Madam Speaker, the date I will get for him for Estimates, which we will be entering into very shortly.

The member keeps referring to some 300-and-some jobs. If the project had gone to the third phase which was planned, then we would have accomplished the amount of jobs that were in place. There were two phases that were completed, of which has accomplished--

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, if the agreement to give Linnet its, essentially, lock on all provincially directed services in fact ended some time during 1997 as is claimed, or at the end of 1996, can the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism explain to the House why Manitoba Hydro entered into an untendered, long-term agreement with Linnet last summer? Where is the commitment to openness, to tendering, to an even playing field?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Well, first of all, Madam Speaker, if Linnet Graphics were not operating in Manitoba, Manitoba Hydro would not have been able to get the services from a company right here in our province. So I want that to be made clear.

Secondly, Manitoba Hydro run their own operation. If they wanted to go to Linnet Graphics and make a deal with Linnet to do work for them, that is their business. We are not intrusionary like the New Democratic Party across the way and want to mess around in everything that goes on in this province.

An Honourable Member: And mess up everything.

Mr. Downey: Absolutely.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, is the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism then telling Manitobans that there is no open tendering program at any Manitoba Crown corporations, that the government of Manitoba does not require Crowns to live by the same rules that the government lives by? Is the Industry minister telling us that Linnet does have a continuing monopoly with Crowns but just not--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): The answer, Madam Speaker, is no. But what there is in the province of Manitoba is a good government that does not fritter away money like the NDP, where we are still paying the debts for one Mr. John Bucklaschuk for $2 million in Autopac.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.