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Mr. Chairperson (Marcel Laurendeau): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This section of the Committee of Supply will be dealing with the Estimates of the Department of Justice.

Will the minister's staff please enter the Chamber at this time.

4.2. Criminal Justice (c) Provincial Policing $55,893,600–pass.

4.2.(d) Law Enforcement Administration (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $342,000–pass; (2) Other Expenditures $135,500–pass.

4.2.(e) Public Safety (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1,688,200.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): The minister has announced, in conjunction with the Minister of Urban Affairs (Mr. Reimer), a Take Back the Streets Initiative. Can the minister tell us where the funding for that initiative is?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): All I can indicate for the member is that the funding coming from the Department of Justice or related to programs coming out of the Department of Justice, for example, the additional resources for the justice committees is $56,000. As you know, the justice committees have been receiving increased resources given their, I think, very important function that they play in the overall justice system. I believe it was two years ago we announced funding for $41,000. Now these additional resources for these justice committees are $56,000. Those are coming out of the Justice Initiatives Fund.

There are additional resources for community sports camps. That is in the amount of $100,000 coming out of the WDA Urban Safety program. The Community Policing, the additional officers, some of it comes out of the Urban Economic Development Initiative, which deals with the Winnipeg Police Service. Four additional officers for the Winnipeg Police Service, and for the Brandon Police Services, two additional officers, comes out of the REDI fund. That is $50,000. The Winnipeg Police Service, the four additional officers were $200,000.

The Joint Forces Intelligence Unit, which deals with four additional RCMP officers; Winnipeg Police Service, six additional officers; and the Brandon Police Service, one additional officer, as well as operating costs and start-up costs for a total of, I believe, $1,528,700, comes out of the Urban Economic Development Initiative fund, 70 percent of that, and 30 percent comes out of the REDI fund. The Violent Crime Linkage Analysis System, or ViCLAS, which will add five additional RCMP officers and three additional civil servants, as well as operating costs and start-up costs, for a total, I understand it to be, in this coming fiscal year, of $228,000, is coming out of the Justice Initiatives Fund.

In respect of the former Joint Forces Intelligence Unit that I had indicated earlier, it is $721,000 coming out of the Urban Economic Development Initiative and the REDI fund for a total of $721,000. The figures that I had quoted were not only for this fiscal year but for the next fiscal year.

In respect of the Targeted Offender Unit, which deals with, first of all, the Corrections staffing costs for 11.1 additional FTEs and Corrections operating costs and Corrections contract monitoring costs, Corrections start-up cost, Prosecutions staffing costs of 6.90 additional FTEs, Prosecutions operating costs, Prosecutions start-up costs, for a total of $699,400, that is coming out of the Justice Initiatives Fund in the amount of $200,000 and the Urban Economic Development Initiative in the amount of $499,400, for a total of $699,400.

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The auxiliary policing initiative will increase our auxiliary policing by 250 additional volunteer officers. There will be an additional 150 for municipalities with their own policing and 100 in communities with RCMP. That is in addition to the already existing, I believe it is, 140 RCMP auxiliary police officers already in existence. I believe that number is correct. The cost for that is directly recoverable from MPI. The padlock community protection act for $100,000 in this fiscal year is coming out of the Justice Initiatives Fund. I believe that basically covers most of the initiatives that I have the responsibility for.

I might indicate that in respect of the DNA biology casework analysis we entered into in agreement with the federal government or, indeed, are in the process of entering into that agreement, which sees the province in the third year of that agreement contribute 55 percent of the cost to a total of one million dollars, I believe it is, funding will be available in the third year. These first two years, it is totally funded by the federal government. I believe that is the only other matter.

Mr. Mackintosh: Do those matters comprise the Take Back the Streets Initiative then?

Mr. Toews: From the Department of Justice's point of view, there would also be the extension of the policing agreement with the City of Winnipeg. Offhand, my staff is not aware of any other portion of the Take Back the Streets Initiative that would be run out of the Department of Justice. The better minister to ask for the overall, because he, in fact, is lead minister, is the Minister of Urban Affairs (Mr. Reimer).

Mr. Mackintosh: In a news release dated May 4 of '99, the following was stated: Funding for rural and northern victims of crime will be increased from $225,000 to $550,000 in the coming year. I am wondering where that amount is found in the Estimates.

Mr. Toews: The staff advise that that is money paid to the RCMP, and they are just having some difficulty locating that line, but I can get that information to the member tomorrow. The RCMP, as you know, are the ones who manage the Victim Services directly and the service providers who are hired work very closely in conjunction with the RCMP.

I believe that in almost every situation where we have now increased the funding and finalized this program–as you may well know, it was on a pilot project basis. That has now been expanded to a permanent basis. I believe in every case the RCMP has hired the people delivering the service through contract; that is those people who wanted to be hired. I believe there has been some change in staff, but the RCMP are responsible for that on a contract basis.

But the exact line, I am advised that it is within 4.2.(e)(3) Grants.

Mr. Mackintosh: On the Grants line, we have just over $1 million there. So, if $550,000 of that is to RCMP victims' services, can the minister tell the committee the categories of other grants under that line?

Mr. Toews: In respect of the Grants line, which I understand has a present commitment at this time of about $981,000, the lion's share of that is going to the RCMP victims' services. That is in the amount of $648,000. The Winnipeg victims' services is an amount of $50,000; Brandon victims' services unit is $30,000; the Dakota Ojibway programs is for $26,600. I am advised that that, as well, is a victims program. The Pembina Valley victims' services has been approved for $15,000. A $25,000 grant is for provincial volunteer training and recruitment.

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Mediation Services, the line is $126,800. Westman mediation services has received $10,000. I believe both of those are run by John Howard. I can get the details of that, but it is $10,000 to Westman mediation services. Then there is another line of Other Research in the amount of $50,000. That is a total grants then that have been committed for 981.4 thousand.

Mr. Mackintosh: In respect of the monies going to community agencies, and I think particularly of the John Howard Society, has the money now flowed? I understand that there was some delay and some hardship experienced on behalf of at least one of these agencies.

Mr. Toews: I understand that those cheques will be flowing shortly. It is not quite in the mail yet but very close to being in the mail.

Just in respect of the so-called delay, I know that my assistant deputy minister had some contact with the John Howard Society, and my staff advise that if there was a concern in respect of that funding being forwarded to the John Howard Society, the department could have made special arrangements to ensure that that funding did flow, but I am also told that it is not unusual that funding would flow around this time. So it is not out of the ordinary, but, in fact, in the future I know that my staff would be very interested in facilitating the very important services that are being performed by the John Howard and Elizabeth Fry societies.

Mr. Mackintosh: I just have one more question, and I believe the member for The Maples (Mr. Kowalski) has some questions on this line.

As the minister is well aware, there was an outside report of the Law Enforcement Review Agency that was concluded and which indicated that the agency, in fact, was not fulfilling its mandate properly, or if at all. I know there has been a change of management at the agency, but has there, as well, been a comprehensive follow-up by the department to ensure that the other recommendations were followed and that LERA will get back on track?

Mr. Toews: I know that there were some articles in the press that concern the operation of LERA, and I believe it was sometime last year that some of these concerns were raised, early last year or even sometime in late 1997. I guess the articles in the paper concerned some of the administration and the time it took to complete the criminal and misconduct investigations against police officers.

I noted that there was an article and a letter to the editor by a Mr. Nelson Sanderson. I know that he is a very active community individual. He is active, I believe, in the Manitoba Metis Federation. He wrote a letter to the Winnipeg Free Press, April 28, 1999. His position was that the Law Enforcement Review Agency, that had been established in 1985, was unsuccessful in fulfilling its mandate, and he certainly stressed the fact that police officers must be held accountable. He also indicated some concern over the time period in which cases are investigated. He indicated that some of the cases before LERA had taken up to five years to investigate. His concern was that this matter should be looked into. In fact, I think it was looked into by my staff.

I think it is important to put this into the context of the act itself. As you know, Mr. Chairperson, the LERA investigations must comply with The Law Enforcement Review Act. Where a matter before the commissioner discloses evidence that a member of any municipal police department may have committed a criminal offence, the commissioner has no option in that situation. He shall report the matter to the Attorney General. Often complainants file a LERA complaint with the commissioner and make a criminal complaint directly to the individual police service.

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The LERA complaints are deferred until the criminal process is resolved. The criminal process includes investigation by the police service and referral to the Prosecutions division of the Department of Justice for review and decision as to the commencement of criminal proceedings or otherwise. In the event of a conviction or an acquittal, the LERA process is in fact terminated. Should there by a stay of proceedings, jurisdiction reverts back to LERA, which then proceeds under The Law Enforcement Review Act.

I think it is important to understand this for the record, and that is why I am going into some detail, because I think it is significant, as you will see shortly, as to what has been done in respect to this particular agency over the last little while.

The LERA process commences with the filing of the written complaint. LERA investigators take statements, obtain official police, medical or other reports. They interview witnesses and then conduct all necessary investigations or inquiry.

Upon receipt of the complaint by the commissioner of LERA, the chief of police is required to forward copies of all documents, statements and other material relevant to the investigation. Upon receipt of this material or any other material that the investigator has, the investigator will determine which members of the police service need to be interviewed. The correspondence is forwarded to the officers and a tentative date set. Officers seek advice and attend the interview, usually with legal counsel retained by the officers' police association.

LERA is mandated under the act to investigate public complaints of police misconduct by on-duty officers. In order to control overtime costs for the police department, officers are usually scheduled for interviews when working days or afternoon shifts. Also, ability of their legal counsel is often a complicating factor. This, of course, has an impact on when interviews can be conducted.

Upon completion of the investigation, the commissioner may decline to take further action if it is felt that the complaint is frivolous or vexatious or if the actions or conduct complained about do not fall within the scope of the act. Should there be sufficient evidence to justify a hearing, the commissioner must offer an informal resolution to the complainant and the respondent. If this informal resolution is successful, then the process is complete. I think it is a very important step that these mediations, in fact, take place. I will get into some of those numbers as well.

In any event, when a final determination as to the direction of a file is made, then the investigation is deemed complete. Referrals to a provincial judge for a hearing or review are not included for the purposes of the investigative time periods that I will be speaking about. I think that the entire process can take from six to eight weeks on the less complicated files or four to six months on the more complex files. To May 31 of this year, there are 129 open files; 124 have been open for a period under 24 months; and five files are in excess of 24 months. Current LERA files have been open an average of 7.25 months, using 24 months as a maximum time frame. LERA's 1997 annual report concluded that the average time to complete investigations was 14 months. I think the staff is quite aware that complaints be handled as quickly as possible, but still we must ensure procedural fairness and natural justice for all parties.

It must be noted that LERA does not control the length of time it takes for the police to complete criminal investigations or for matters to proceed to criminal court or referrals to a provincial judge under the act. I can give some statistics then that pre-February '98, there were approximately 210 files. Of those, 201 are now closed, leaving nine still open. Since February 27, 1998, there have been approximately 292 new complaints. Of those, 172 have been closed, 120 are still open. So that leaves LERA with a total of 129 files still open, but 373 files having been closed.

The length of time to complete investigations, generally speaking, as I have said, is approximately 7.25 months. For example, 56 files were between one to three months; 24 files were between four and six months; 22 files between seven and nine months; 14 files between 10 and 12 months; three files between 13 and 15 months; four files between 16 and 18 months; one file between 19 and 21 months; and then, as indicated earlier, there are five files in excess of 24 months.

There have been applications to a provincial judge for a review of the commissioner's decisions in eight cases, and there has been a decision rendered in one of these cases in support of the commissioner's decision. There have been referrals by the commissioner to a provincial judge for a hearing in five cases, and there have been appeals to the Court of Queen's Bench in two cases.

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The important point that needs to be stressed is the emphasis on informal resolutions. I know that this commissioner has stressed that, and he has resolved 36 cases. I am also quite pleased with what the commissioner is doing in respect of meeting with the Ombudsman for the City of Winnipeg, as well as, members of the Winnipeg Police Service and as well meetings with people involved with the Main Street Project.

There are any number of other meetings that the commissioner has been involved in. I think it is to his credit that he is trying very diligently to enhance the credibility of LERA. He met, I know, with Boyd Campbell of the Winnipeg Police Association and in the opinion of the commissioner, he thought it was a positive meeting. In fact, Boyd Campbell, who is the vice-president of the Winnipeg Police Association, also remarked on the same meeting. He indicated that he, quote, I recently met with Mr. Wright–and that is the acting commissioner–and discussed mutual concerns. Mr. Wright is a former member of the RCMP and has a good understanding of the issues at hand and a stated desire to be receptive to any ideas that member associations bring to him. The provincial government has given Mr. Wright a two-year commitment as the commissioner, and after speaking with him, it is my feeling that he is taking LERA on an acceptable path.

So I think it is important that Mr. Wright's efforts are being respected by the Police Associations. I think that wherever we are in the justice system, whether we are with the management of police or in the Police Association and indeed as investigator or other staff in the LERA agency, I think we are all working for the same goal to ensure that citizens have access to a public body that takes their cases seriously, works closely with them to ensure that we can resolve these issues.

So I think what my comments have gone some way to try to illustrate is the commitment that I know staff at the Law Enforcement Review Agency are making, and partially attempt to answer some of the concerns that Mr. Sanderson raised in his letter of Wednesday, April 28, 1999, and published in the Winnipeg Free Press. I think those are my comments on this issue.

Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples): I seem to only have a few minutes. I was going to ask some questions in regard to a report done by Lana Maloney in regard to conditional sentencing. One thing that popped up here, I am trying to remember the name of the program that John Howard runs. It was started about five years ago. It started off as a pilot project that was jointly funded by the federal government, and now I understand it is fully funded by the provincial government to do with the court diversion program. Am I correct? Is the name of it Restorative Resolutions? Okay. For the Restorative Resolutions, is there a separate line in the Estimates process, or where in the Estimates is the funding for that?

Mr. Toews: That line is at 4.(b)(3), and it is for $76,000. It is under Corrections.

I want to speak just briefly on Restorative Resolutions because I think it is a very good program in the sense that the Corrections Branch is reaching out into the community to work in a partnership on some very clear conditions with the John Howard Society. The Restorative Resolutions provides community-based alternatives to custody for adult offenders through victim participation, intensive supervision and mediation.

There are some criteria. The offender has to be, for example, facing a minimum sentence of 10 months. The offender has pled guilty, and the offences are–

Mr. Chairperson: Order, please. Could I ask the minister, is he dealing 4.(b)(3) at this time, because we had agreed at the previous meeting we were going to be dealing line by line? If the minister is going to be answering a question on that line, I should get leave of the committee because we were holding tight to the line after the minister's request after the last meeting.

Mr. Toews: It is 4.(b)(3), but I can answer the question very quickly by simply saying that it is not only the $76,000, but the correctional division is contemplating bringing our total resources and commitment to that program by five seconded staff and two term positions for a total of seven staff years, plus operational support for a total of $260,000 by June 1 of this year. So there are issues, I think, with any of these programs that need to be resolved, but I think the clear focus and mandate of this particular program is very important so that we can, in the long term, look at how successful they are.

There have been some concerns expressed that staff have expressed in terms of participation of aboriginal offenders. As you are well aware, aboriginal offenders do create–

Mr. Chairperson: Order, please. The hour now being six o'clock, committee rise.

Call in the Speaker.

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Marcel Laurendeau): The hour being six o'clock, this House is now adjourned and stands adjourned until tomorrow (Tuesday) afternoon at 1:30 p.m.