Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Family Services stated that it depends on the weather and the circumstances the number of children in hotels. Later it was quoted, and quoted today in the media, that there were 32 children in the Child and Family Services division of Winnipeg in hotels, and we have received minutes of meetings that indicate that there were 31 in December of 1998, 28 to 29 on average in April and 32 as of yesterday.

Can the minister please inform the House of the truth, of the facts, and is this not a systemic problem with too many kids in hotels after the Premier (Mr. Filmon) last year promised to deal with this issue?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): I thank my honourable friend for that question because I do want to indicate to all Manitobans that in fact the number of children that are in hotels does fluctuate from month to month depending upon the circumstances and the situations.

Madam Speaker, I have to indicate very clearly that this is a Child and Family Services agency that is having to deal with children after the fact because they have been abused or neglected in their own home circumstances. It is very important that the agency determine how to most appropriately deal with the children who come into their care. From time to time, if there is not a specialized placement option or opportunity for those children, they are placed in hotels.

I indicated yesterday, and I will say again today, that they are working very aggressively to move children as quickly as possible out of a hotel circumstance, but the reality is, Madam Speaker, those children have to be protected. I would want the agency to act appropriately to ensure protection, safety and security of children.

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Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, the issue of safety and security of children is not the issue. It is where that takes place. Should it take place in a proper setting or should it take place at a $231-per-night hotel room?

The minister also indicated that the stays of children have declined on an average-stay basis, but it is quoted in the media today that there were 22 children on an ongoing basis and one child had been placed in the hotel for over a year. Will the Premier (Mr. Filmon) please get control over this situation? We want safe, secure settings for our children, not hotels at $231 a day.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, again I thank my honourable friend for the question because he seems to think that there is a very simplistic answer to finding the appropriate supports for children who are in care. Without getting into any details around case specifics, I have to indicate to my honourable friend that the children who end up in hotel placements for longer periods of time are very complex issues. It is not a simplistic issue of trying to find a foster home for an infant. You have children who are very troubled, with very complex issues surrounding the circumstances for those placements. It sometimes takes time and considerable time to find the appropriate care and support for those children.

So, if my honourable friend thinks that it is very easy and that the agency is not doing the very best that it can do to try to find the appropriate placement, then I think he needs to think again and maybe needs to understand the complexities of the circumstances surrounding some of these children.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, perhaps the government should have considered these complexities when it made cost-saving decisions a few years ago.

I want to quote from the minutes that advise us that the agency is stating that they should have explored buying out Seven Oaks when it was closed by this minister, by this Premier (Mr. Filmon), and advise that the building is still there. The agency is currently looking at utilizing it as an emergency placement facility during the Pan Am Games, because they have only secured a number of hotel rooms at Place Louis and they are worried that they do not have enough hotel rooms. Is this the long-term plan that we can expect from this minister that was promised three years ago, two years ago, this year but never has resulted in any real, good results for kids who have to stay in hotels because of her policies?

Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, when it comes to support for children to the Child and Family Services agency in the city of Winnipeg, I want to just go over the chronology because I think it is extremely important to note that back in 1991-92, we provided $43.2 million to the Winnipeg agency. That has increased year after year to this year when the budget is $69.4 million, a significant increase–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. That is a significant increase, and the millions and millions of dollars, year after year, that have been put into support for children and families through the Child and Family Services system–

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Are we seeing healthier families as a result of intervention after the fact? We are still seeing significant numbers of children who need protection from abuse and neglect, and it is not from the Child and Family Services system. It is from family circumstances, and that is why we are putting more resources into early intervention.

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, we know from the minutes of Child and Family Services board meetings that many of the children who are in supposedly temporary accommodation in hotels have significant mental health issues. In fact, the board had a discussion about whether or not mental health facilities would be more suitable given that half of their clients in hotels in April had mental health issues.

I would like to ask the Minister of Family Services if there is any co-ordination going on between her department and the Department of Health given the problem that we have here that only 37 beds are available for mental health patients in the whole province for children under 18. What is she doing about this issue?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): As a result of the closing of the Seven Oaks Centre, there has been a youth emergency services set up that is working extremely well, and that is a working together of the Child and Family Services agency, Macdonald Youth Services, the mental health and psychiatric beds, the Manitoba Adolescent Treatment Centre. Those services are being co-ordinated in a much more significant way than they ever were in the past. We are seeing good results through that process. It is a continuation of an evolving process to try to ensure that services are co-ordinated and families are better served. We will continue to try to ensure that all parts of the community are working together so that children can be better served.

Mr. Martindale: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Family Services, who talks about co-ordination of services and new services: why is it, if there is all this co-ordination going on, that there are more children in hotels this year than there were last year when there was a crisis in child welfare? What is her co-ordination doing? How is it getting children out of hotels? What is the plan? What is this minister doing?

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Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mrs. Mitchelson: I thank my honourable friend for that question. I would be more concerned about a crisis in the child welfare system if children were being left in circumstances of abuse and neglect. We know that children are coming into care, that the plans are being done as aggressively as they possibly can to try to ensure that the proper placements are found. But I will repeat again, Madam Speaker, there is not a simple answer to the issues that present themselves when there are complex needs associated in many instances with older children within the system. We have to continue to try to ensure that the services are co-ordinated and that we work with the agency and other services that are out there and available to ensure that the best supports are there for kids when they need it.

Mr. Martindale: I would like to ask the minister, under whose watch we have seen Seven Oaks close, no plan for alternative services, cuts to foster care rates, more children in hotels this year than last year, and she blames it on the weather: what is her plan? What is she going to do, and why blame it on the weather?

Mrs. Mitchelson: We have not had a circumstance or situation while we have been government that has seen three children die in the hands of those that–died when the New Democratic government was in power, Madam Speaker.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mrs. Mitchelson: There is not any Minister of Family Services, regardless of political stripe, even Muriel Smith who had significant issues to deal with when she was the minister in the New Democratic government responsible for Child and Family Services–I have indicated before, and I will say again, that there is not a Minister of Family Services, regardless of political stripe, that does not lose sleep as a result of the issues that they have to deal with in Child and Family. They are not issues that are created by the minister; they are issues that are created as a result of children being abused and neglected in their own homes. Our responsibility is to try to ensure that communities are healthier and families are stronger. That is why we are putting millions and millions of dollars more into the front end to try to ensure that children do not need the supports from the Child and Family Services into the future.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): As much as this minister may try to blame others or the weather, the fact is that what we are seeing here is the legacy of 11 years of neglect by this government. We have seen this government destroy the previous Child and Family Services structure and wipe out the role of many volunteers. They cut funding to foster parents associations, and they cut foster parents rates.

What I want to ask the minister, who a year ago said that it was unacceptable that kids were in hotels: is she now saying today that it is a complicated problem? Is it now acceptable that 30-plus kids are in hotels because of the disastrous policies of this government?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): This is not an issue that I think anyone should be yelling or screaming about. It is an issue that is very serious for children and families.

Hotel accommodation is not acceptable under any circumstances. No one has said that it is the acceptable or the preferred method of treatment and support, but the opposition, without knowing any of the facts or the details around the circumstances of the children that are in hotels at the present time, are making accusations. If they knew the severity and the complexity of the issues that surrounded children, they would understand the reason for an individualized, very specific and specialized plan that is needed for these children. There is no easy answer, and I will say again, Madam Speaker, there is no quick fix.

These are children that have multiple problems, and the issues need to be addressed in a way that is sensitive to the needs of those individual children.

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Mr. Ashton: I wonder if the minister will explain to those of us who make no apology for voicing the concerns of many Manitobans about our kids, and I am one of them and our entire caucus. I want to ask this minister: what is it? Last year it was unacceptable. Is it today a complex problem? Where is the plan? When is she going to deal with the fact there are 30-plus kids in hotels? That is not acceptable no matter what the circumstances.

Mrs. Mitchelson: This is a very serious issue, and we do know that the children that are in hotels, because a specialized plan is still being developed for those children, are alive. We need to continue to try to ensure that the appropriate services and supports are available before they are moved out of those hotel rooms, and we are still not in a situation, like the former government, the New Democratic government, was, where in fact they had to have a report done by Reid and Sigurdson as a result of several deaths of children in care under their watch.

Mr. Ashton: As a final supplementary, and I would plead with the minister: will she explain what plan, if any, is in place? Because a year ago she said it was unacceptable; today she says it is a complex problem. When are we going to get kids out of hotels and into the right kind of facility, the right kind of placement that they need?

Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, I will repeat again that I will not accept an agency leaving children in a situation where they have been abused or neglected. When those children need support and service and when they have highly complex needs, sometimes a hotel placement is the only option until a well-thought-out plan of support for that child can be developed. Again, I make no apologies for taking the time to ensure that the right plan is in place for those individual children. I would like to see in the future no need for the use of hotel beds, but we are not there yet.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Health. I wonder if the Minister of Health could perhaps explain to this House how this government that is bringing in legislation to mandate that people have to receive drug treatment and other forms of treatment in order to receive benefits, how the minister can explain that the chemical withdrawal unit at the Health Sciences Centre is closed for the summer?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): Well, again, the member for Kildonan is very familiar that summer schedules are not unique in the province of Manitoba in a whole range of areas. In fact, if you look at our health care system in totality, you look at our hospital system today, last year we had some 195, I believe, individuals panelled for personal care homes in our acute care setting. Today that is down to about 50, freeing up acute care beds.

The issue of summer schedules is not unique in the province. It certainly was the case under NDP governments previously. It has been a pattern in Manitoba for many decades.

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Mr. Chomiak: The minister can say all that he wants–

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I am sure the honourable member has a question.

Mr. Chomiak: Will the minister not admit that, despite his trying to evade the question and despite all his talk about, oh, it being previous plans, if this government sets a priority on something and plans something, how can they ironically close the chemical withdrawal unit when this government is taking the strong stand to mandate that people have to get chemical treatment?

Mr. Stefanson: Again, I repeat for the member opposite that summer schedules are not unique in the province of Manitoba. They have been that case for many decades under previous governments, including previous NDP governments, so that is not something that is new in terms of scheduling, meeting the staffing needs, allowing individuals to take appropriate holiday times and so on. But, again, the member, I am not sure what side of these issues he is on, whether or not he is supporting the bill that he refers to that was introduced recently. It was hard to tell yesterday from comments of his colleagues, including the member for Burrows (Mr. Martindale) and others. So where is he on the issue? Does he support that bill? I gather we are going to find that out in the next few days.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, will the minister not admit that it is a tad bit strange, I think, for Manitobans to concede–

An Honourable Member: Passing strange.

Mr. Chomiak: Passing strange, I might add, for Manitobans to review this government who have the longest waiting lists until recently in the entire country for most programs; yet when they come forward with a program mandating that people must have treatment, they close the chemical withdrawal unit. How does the minister reconcile that?

Mr. Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, it is hard to lend much credibility to the member for Kildonan when he puts incorrect information and exaggerates situations about waiting lists. He knows full well. He has had a chance to see waiting lists on a national basis. He has had an opportunity to see how Manitoba stacks up, and in many, many areas we stack up extremely well. We stack up in the lower half and some of the shortest waiting times in all of Canada, and that is because we continue to dedicate additional financial resources to that very important issue of reducing waiting times, whether it is for diagnostic services or surgical services–

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

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Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, I know that the Minister of Health would not want to put inaccurate information on the record, and I hope he will refer to the report of his own Winnipeg Health Authority that said the waiting lists for MRI, for CAT scans and for ultrasounds were the longest in Winnipeg in all of Canada.

Madam Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable member for Kildonan, the honourable member for Kildonan did not have a point of order. It is clearly a dispute over the facts.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Health, to complete his response.

Mr. Stefanson: Just to conclude, Madam Speaker, the member for Kildonan knows that in many areas our waiting lists are amongst the lowest in Canada today. I am sure that is one of the many reasons why they supported our 1999 budget that includes $194 million, 10 percent more, now $2.1 billion of spending on health care in Manitoba, because it is doing just that. It is continuing to provide services, continuing to reduce waiting lists in the province of Manitoba.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for either the Minister of Housing or the Premier (Mr. Filmon). The growth of the ghettoization of north end Winnipeg is second to no other in Canada in terms of major metropolitan cities.

My question for the government is to ask specifically: what is the government doing to deal with the deterioration and the rapid rate of deterioration that we are seeing in the north end of Winnipeg?

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Housing): Madam Speaker, naturally we are very, very concerned about the problems and some of the concerns that have been brought forth not only in the newspaper but by members of the House and the member for Inkster as to what is happening in parts of Winnipeg.

We have worked very, very closely with the City of Winnipeg in looking at problems of concern. We have instituted different types of projects, partnerships with housing projects in Winnipeg, for example, Westminster Housing association. Just recently we were involved with the renovations of some housing in the inner-city area. Through our Manitoba Housing Corporation, we have given a couple of homes to New Life Ministries to renovate. They have used these as a bit of a catalyst to raise funds for the renovation of other homes in the particular area. We have worked with the Kinsmen Club in joint ventures for funding in the renovation of housing in the inner city. Manitoba Housing works very, very closely with R.B. Russell School, for example, involving some of the aboriginal students for renovations in some of our public housing associations.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my supplementary question is for the Minister of Finance (Mr. Gilleshammer). Does the government have any idea in terms of the impact on property tax reassessment which is going to be occurring next year where we will see properties depreciate as much as 50 percent in the north end of Winnipeg? Is the Minister of Finance even aware of that, and what is the Minister of Finance prepared to do in dealing with that issue?

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister Housing): Madam Speaker, the problem of assessment that the member is talking about is something that he is well aware is within the city's jurisdictions in regard to their evaluation of their properties. The shifting of the taxing that the member is talking about is an occurrence that is happening because of the evaluations going to market-based value of the properties. I am not sure whether the member is saying that this is a good process or that he is saying that there should be a different process of assessment, but I think those are some of the things that I know the Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Derkach), through the Assessment department, is working very, very closely with the City of Winnipeg assessors in trying to come to a better understanding of the conditions of assessment that are required in the City of Winnipeg, and hopefully that there will be a more equitable base for taxation in regard to the market evaluation of the properties here in Winnipeg.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, what we are asking for the government to recognize–and I posed the question in terms of what the government is actually doing to address the whole issue of depreciation of property taxes in the north end. It is because of the amount of neglect, whether it is through the city or the province, in not dealing with the issues that are necessary in order to keep that property appreciated.

I do not know why the member for Osborne (Ms. McGifford) is so excited about the question. I am trying to put forward the question and would ask for her and the member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh) to be a bit patient in allowing me to pose the question. Thank you.

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Madam Speaker: Order, please. I am not certain if the honourable member for Inkster was debating with the members in the opposition or was standing on a point of order.

Mr. Lamoureux: Just on a point of order, Madam Speaker. Part of our procedure is, if we have a question, we are provided the opportunity to be able to pose that question. The amount of heckling that I was receiving from the member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh) in the first supplementary question and the conversations that were taking place make it very difficult to pose a question. I do not come to the Chamber with a written question per se. I quite often do it based on research that I have done and depending upon the minister's response. It is very hard.

I would ask, Madam Speaker, that the New Democrats respect that fact and allow me to pose the question so the minister is better able to answer.

Madam Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable member for Inkster, indeed the honourable member for Inkster did have a question. I was experiencing difficulty hearing the question, as I have been for most of the afternoon. I would ask for the co-operation of all members on all sides of the House to be more respectful to the members both posing the questions and responding to the questions asked.

Mr. Reimer: I think I do remember what the member for Inkster was asking me earlier in his preamble.

I believe what the member is asking is in regard to the programs that this government is coming out in regard to making Winnipeg and the neighbourhoods a safer community. Madam Speaker, we have made a very serious commitment to our Take Back the Streets Initiative in trying to make Winnipeg a better and a safer place to live, to work and to raise a family. One of the ways of doing that is to look at the positive aspects, the aspects of community development, working with the communities in trying to bring forth not only the best of what is in the community but working for whole neighbourhoods in trying to make it a safer place. With the safety of neighbourhoods and the sense of community that comes back into various areas of Winnipeg, naturally there is a willingness for people to live and to reside and to work and play in these particular neighbourhoods. There is a combination of elements that have to come into play in regard to trying to work with the neighbourhoods. We believe that we are on the right track to try to work with the neighbourhoods. Those are the things that will make a change in the city of Winnipeg.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): To the Minister of Justice. During the last election the government promised a so-called crackdown on youth crime, according to the Premier (Mr. Filmon), with The Parental Responsibility Act as its centrepiece amid a great hoopla on how the government was going to make parents financially responsible for the actions of their children. Indeed, while many said it would make no difference, that it was election hype, it has been a centrepiece of this government's justice program.

My question to the minister is: would he tell us how many parents have been found financially responsible under this act since it was announced over four years ago?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I will take the question as notice from the member. I do not have those statistics here.

Mr. Mackintosh: Is the minister telling Manitobans that he does not even know how well, if at all, this centrepiece legislation has worked, given that the Premier (Mr. Filmon) on the day it was announced promised Manitobans that this legislation would make Manitoba's streets and neighbourhoods safer?

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The member has posed his question.

Mr. Toews: I have indeed had conversations with staff members, not only staff members, in respect of the principles of that particular act. Indeed the act, as a principle of holding parents accountable for the actions of their children, has had a very significant impact in the context of our youth justice committees. Many of our youth justice committees see the importance of parents being present at the so-called alternative sentencing for the children. That principle, that very important legislative principle set out in The Parental Responsibility Act, has had a very important impact in ensuring that parents are in fact responsible to an appropriate level in those cases where they have not been exercising the degree of responsibility that they should be.

So the principle that was enacted in that legislation indeed is very important and is being utilized.

Mr. Mackintosh: Will the minister instead admit that he does in fact know how many parents have been financially responsible? Will he confirm that since it was announced over four years ago not one single parent has been found financially responsible under the centrepiece legislation? How can this be a crackdown?

Mr. Toews: As I indicated, in my conversations with the youth justice committees and the members of those youth justice committees, the principle that parents are in fact a part of and accountable for the actions of their youth is a very important concept that these individuals look at in terms of determining what is the appropriate response from the youth justice committee.

So I see the legislation as a very important declaration of values by the government and indeed by society to ensure that parents are in fact held accountable and that youth justice committees know that that in fact is an important aspect of their deliberations. I want to commend the youth justice committees in the work that they have been doing in that particular context.

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Over a month ago I asked the Minister of Health if he would work with the Medical Services Branch of the federal government to deal with the critical shortage of nursing and doctors in the North.

I want to table a federal document here that outlines the formula that I mentioned to the minister a month ago. It indicates that there is over a 35 percent shortage of nurses in northern isolated communities, as I mentioned to the minister.

I would like to ask him: since that time, what arrangements has he made so far with the federal government in terms of trying to find a solution to the problem?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, as I indicated at the time when the member for The Pas asked the question, our department is working with the federal government to address the issue of filling the vacancies in our northern communities, particularly as it relates to the need for more nurses. I indicated at that time that the $7-million nurse recruitment and retention fund is available to do just that. We have obviously notified the committee that is administering that fund that they have the option of utilizing that fund to help provide support to attract nurses to our northern communities.

I also communicated with the federal government our concern about this issue, our willingness to work with them to resolve it, recognizing that it is one of these issues that does fall under federal jurisdiction. But also, we are responsible for the health of all Manitobans, and therefore we are dedicating the staff within the Department of Health and we are dedicating financial resources like accessing the $7-million nurse recruitment fund to help address this very important issue.

Mr. Lathlin: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the minister why his government has not had any strategy so far. It seems to me that he is just starting to think about developing a strategy with the federal government when this situation has been in existence for a long time. I want to ask the minister if he has any strategies in the short term to deal with communities like God's River where they were down to one nurse last week, and Garden Hill has had a shortage of nurses for most of the year.

Mr. Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, we have a number of strategies to provide more nurses in Manitoba. As the member for The Pas, I believe, knows, our budget includes some $32.5 million for 650 nursing positions. We have a $7-million nurse recruitment fund; we are working with our educational community, our Faculty of Nursing at the University of Manitoba, the licensed practical nursing program at Assiniboine Community College in Brandon, all to produce more nurses in Manitoba. So we are doing a number of things to bring more nurses into the nursing profession in the province of Manitoba to encourage people to come back into nursing.

Obviously, all of those will help to address the very issue that the member is raising here today, the need for more nurses in our First Nations communities, primarily in northern Manitoba. So we have offered to work with the federal government that has primary responsibility for providing these services in First Nations communities on reserves, and we are dedicating various resources to help address that issue.

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Mr. Lathlin: My last question is to the same minister. I would like to ask him if he would not acknowledge that the shortage of medical personnel, nurses and doctors, in the North results in patients being forced to travel to Winnipeg and elsewhere for tests and treatment that is costing a lot of money when it should be done in their communities at a lower cost.

Mr. Stefanson: Absolutely, Madam Speaker, a focus of our government has been to provide health care services where people need them, when they need them. A major part of that is to do it in communities closer to home, and that is why we have continued to see enhancements to communities like the Brandon Regional Health Centre. We have seen enhancements to the hospital in Thompson and so on for that very important reason. Again, not only does it make economic sense but, more importantly, it provides more appropriate care for individuals.

So I agree with that statement that we should be working to provide services wherever possible as close to home, and obviously this issue of providing more nurses in our First Nations communities is a very important issue that we are committed to help address, recognizing that it is not solely our responsibility. It is also the responsibility, primarily, of the federal government. But we are dedicating staff within Health and accessing various financial resources like the nurse retention fund to help to address that very important issue.

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam Speaker, on June 21 we asked the Minister of Education why his government was already three years late in conducting the five-year review of colleges mandated by his own legislation. We now know that the colleges have completed the review, and I would like to ask the minister if this is not another case where the announcements are used to fool the public rather than make a real commitment to them. Is the minister prepared to release the reports on community colleges?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Education and Training): The honourable member knows that what she says is nonsense, because it was not so long ago she stood to her feet to support the $4-million colleges growth fund contained in this year's budget. She and all of her colleagues rose to support the budget. That $4 million is going to do things like put 35 more seats for computer accounting technicians in Red River College. It is going to put 55 additional seats for computer analyst programmers. It is going to put 18 for plumbing and piping, 15 for welding. That is just Red River College, Madam Speaker; 55 for early childhood education. At Assiniboine Community College, another 15 seats for office administration, 25 for early childhood education, 25 for business, not to mention–

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): Madam Speaker, Beauchesne Citation 417 is very clear that answers to questions should be as brief as possible, deal with the matter raised and should not provoke debate.

I believe the minister was asked about tabling a community college report. I do not believe his answer has any connection whatsoever to the question.

I would like to ask you to bring the minister to order and ask him to answer the very important question raised by our member.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Minister of Education, on the same point of order.

Mr. McCrae: Well, the honourable member for Thompson puts a very technical construction on both the question and the answer. I know the honourable member for St. James is interested in what is going on in our community colleges; that is why she asked the question.

Now the honourable member for Thompson, through a point of order, wants to prevent the free flow of information, the openness that we on this side of the House want to project in this House. So I do not think there is a point of order there, or if there is, the honourable member is working at cross purposes from his colleague the member for St. James.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. On the point of order raised by the honourable member for Thompson, I would agree that the honourable member did have a point of order. The question asked was: when will the minister table the report? I would ask that the honourable Minister of Education and Training respond to the question asked.

Mr. McCrae: Well, I am certainly taking the question of the honourable member for St. James under advisement, but I know she would like to know that there is an additional 100 seats at Assiniboine Community College for practical nurse training in Manitoba, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I believe the honourable minister indicated he would take the question as notice, and that is all that is required.

The honourable member for St. James, with a very short supplementary question.

Ms. Mihychuk: Madam Speaker, will the Minister of Education inform the House as to what he is trying to hide from the public? Why is he not releasing the report? Is it a condemnation of this government's record to community colleges?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, I am really quite shocked at the language being used by the honourable member for St. James in her so-called support for our community colleges.

To quote Mr. Jim Carr, who speaks for the Manitoba business community today, he has said that community colleges are quite nimble and can adapt within weeks and months to job shortages. That is exactly what the list of seats that I referred to a moment ago will assist with.

Another commentator, Graham Starmer of the Manitoba Chamber of Commerce, has said that Manitoba's labour shortage is more acute because we have such a diverse economy. That is not a bad thing. That is a good thing, and it is a good thing to line up behind the good stewardship of the Filmon administration over the last 11 years in making such a buoyant economy which makes these challenges so real for our colleges and our colleges that are responding so well.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Time for Oral Questions has expired.