Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the Annual Report of the Manitoba Education and Research Learning Information Networks for the period 1998-1999.

Mr. Speaker: For the information of the Minister of Education and Training, we are presenting reports by standing and special committees. We will come to Ministerial Statements and Tabling of Reports.

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Chairperson of the Special Committee of Seven Persons): Mr. Speaker, is there leave of the House to present the report of the Committee of Seven Persons?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Mr. Speaker: Agreed.

Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, I would like to present the Second Report of the Committee of Seven Persons.

An Honourable Member: Dispense.

Mr. Speaker: Dispense.

Mr. Mackintosh: I move, seconded by the honourable member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau), that the report of the committee be received.

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Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the Annual Report of the Manitoba Education Research and Learning Information Networks for the period 1998-1999.

Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the 1998-99 Annual Report for Manitoba Health which includes the Annual Report of the Manitoba Health Services Insurance Plan, copies of which have been previously distributed.

I would also like to table the 1998-99 Annual Report for the Manitoba Health Research Council, copies of which have been previously distributed.

I would like to table the 1998-99 Annual Report for the Addictions Foundation of Manitoba, copies of which have been previously distributed.

I would also like to table the 1998-99 Annual Report of Sport, copies of which have been previously distributed.

Finally, I am pleased to table the Annual Report of the Health Information Services of Manitoba Corporation for the year ended March 31, 1999.

Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to report that no Orders-in-Councils have been made pursuant to Section 114 of The Insurance Act, R.S.M. 1987. c. 140, since the last session of the Legislature.

Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery where we have with us today from St. Francois Xavier Community School fifteen Grade 5 students under the direction of Mrs. Betty-Ann Tiltman. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Morris (Mr. Pitura).

Also, from Daniel MacIntyre School, twenty-five Grade 11 students under the direction of Mrs. Connie Baker. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister for Industry, Trade and Mines (Ms. Mihychuk).

With us from Landmark Collegiate are twenty Grade 11 students under the direction of Mr. Greg Sawatzky. This school is located in the constituency of the Honourable Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (Mr. Lemieux).

With us from Morden Collegiate are forty Grade 9 students under the direction of Mr. Ron Peters. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Pembina (Mr. Dyck).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today.

Mr. Gary Filmon (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, last week in response to a number of questions by members on our side, the Minister of Health referred on numerous occasions to his government's news release of November 22. He said it had the answers to all of the questions that we might ask. So we took the time to just review it thoroughly and on the second page it says: Effective immediately the number of chemotherapy treatment hours offered per month by Cancer Care Manitoba's oncology day program will be doubled.

In calling–not that we did not trust his word–Cancer Care Manitoba, we find that this has not happened, and so I ask the minister to explain why these hours have not been extended, as has been committed effective immediately in the November 22 news release.

Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for that question. As the member knows, after assuming office, after only a number of weeks in office we met with all of the groups and organizations in the community and said what can we do to deal with the terrible devastation that has been left to us by the Conservatives in terms of health care. What we did was put together a package of items and a short-term plan that would deal with the horrible issue of hallways. And I might add, on this day last year there were 52 people in Winnipeg's hospital hallways, and today, according to this morning's stats, we have only nine. Fifty-two today's date last year, under that particular government.

With respect to the specifics that were outlined by the Leader of the Opposition, I will take notice on that question and get back to him on that.

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Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, the minister dodged the question, not terribly artfully I might say but he dodged the question, as he usually does. He refers to the fact that after the election they met with all these different groups. He made commitments about this issue during the election, but this is seven weeks after they took office. November 22 he said effective immediately these beds would be open. We are informed by Cancer Care Manitoba that that has not happened. So my question is: when will it happen? Is this just another one of these broken promises? Effectively immediately, not seven weeks from now, not four weeks from now, not after I have a chance to take a look. When is it going to happen?

Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, for a government that did not live up to any of its 1995 election promises and was involved in some of the biggest fiascos that have ever been seen in this province, not only SmartHealth which was a cover-up by members opposite, I find it very strange that the former Premier did not have an opportunity to question us on that. But with respect to that particular issue, I want to point out to the member that we indicated we would get back with regard to the specifics of that particular issue.

I want to reiterate that, in our press release, we said that we would open and make the beds available as of December 1. Members opposite were saying, well, we had hope for tomorrow. We did provide hope to the people of Manitoba. We said we would end hallway medicine. We are going to live up to our claim, and that will happen in this province.

Mr. Filmon: The member opposite, in his great arrogance, completely refuses or is unable to answer the question. I am not talking about commitments in an election campaign, I am not talking about promises of future action, I am talking about a statement in the November 22 news release that he waved around all last week. It says effective immediately. Did he know what he was talking about when he made that commitment?

Mr. Chomiak: As I indicated to the former Premier and the Leader of the Opposition, I will take that question as notice and determine specifically what the former Premier is referring to because the information–

Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): On a point of order, the honourable minister has already stated he will take it under advisement. I think that is enough. There is no postamble required.

Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader, on the same point of order.

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): On the same point of order. Since it is their allegation now that while the matter has been taken under advisement there should be no further answers, why are they continuing to pose questions?

Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the Opposition House Leader, he does have a point of order. Any questions taken as notice do not require a postamble.

Mr. Denis Rocan (Carman): I would like to address my question to the Minister of Finance. We know that from time to time government agencies, especially agencies that are rate collectors, run surpluses. The example of the Employment Insurance surplus that the federal government is facing comes to mind, especially at a time when we have our farmers in dire straits, low commodity prices, and you have a federal government who have the distinction of walking around waving this bagful of money and not knowing where to spend it.

I would like to ask the Minister of Finance if he could advise the House what his government plans to do with any surpluses held by government agencies such as MPI or Workers Compensation.

Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): I would like to thank the honourable member for the question. With respect to any surpluses held by agencies, first of all, we have to get the information those surpluses will in fact be there, and then we will decide in the course of preparing the budget and consulting with Manitobans the best use of those surpluses with regard to the existing policies for retained earnings in those agencies to ensure that they maintain their healthy financial circumstances.

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Mr. Rocan: A supplementary question to the same minister. Could this minister assure Manitobans that any surpluses currently held by a government agency, such as Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation or the Workers Compensation Board, would be returned directly to the ratepayers responsible for that surplus?

Mr. Selinger: With respect to any surpluses or potential surpluses that may exist, those surpluses will be used to further the objectives of that particular corporation. For example, the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation presently funds 12 police officers from the City of Winnipeg to deal with the car-theft problem. That is a policy initiated by the former government. It seems like a good policy because it is one that reduces the claims that are made against that corporation with respect to stolen vehicles. So, given that precedent, we will proceed in a similar fashion to make use of the surpluses to achieve the objectives that Manitobans set for those agencies.

Mr. Darren Praznik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, to follow up on the question from the member for Carman, the government of Saskatchewan, also a government of the New Democratic Party, has a policy where they take dividends from Crown corporations such as their hydro utility, their insurance agency and use that, in essence, subsidize the operation of government by increasing the cost of those basic public utilities.

We are asking the Minister of Finance today: will he say categorically to the people of Manitoba that his administration will not follow that policy used in Saskatchewan of transferring dollars from Crown corporations by way of dividends to subsidize the operation of provincial services?

Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Well, first of all, we are going to keep these Crown corporations within the control of the government. By doing that, we will ensure that any surpluses that are generated by those organizations are available for the benefit of all Manitobans.

Mr. Praznik: Mr. Speaker, this is very important for the people of Manitoba to understand the direction of this government.

I ask the minister: does that mean that the ratepayers who pay automobile insurance, the ratepayers who pay for their hydroelectricity, the employers who pay for Workers Compensation coverage–does that mean that if he and his colleagues decide that any surplus would be better used by going into the general revenue of the province, he would rather see those dollars flow into the Treasury than returned to those ratepayers by reduced Autopac fees, reduced hydro fees or reduced Workers Compensation premiums?

Mr. Selinger: I thank the honourable member opposite for his question. It is important that these agencies maintain competitive rates for Manitobans, and that is a policy that we will continue. But it is also important to note that those agencies generate programs and use monies within those agencies to fund those programs. I have given the example of auto theft: police officers made available to the City of Winnipeg. Hydro already pays water rentals. That is revenue available to the government of Manitoba.

What we will do is we will make sure that those Crown corporations stay within the ambit of government control and that the revenues from those corporations will continue to fund the retained earnings policy and the investments that are required to keep those corporations competitive. Then we will take it from there.

Mr. Praznik: Mr. Speaker, it is the "take it from there" that worries Manitobans. Will the minister simply confirm today that his administration will not transfer any surpluses from those utility corporations by way of a dividend to the Treasury of Manitoba as his colleagues in Saskatchewan do?

Mr. Selinger: Look, the member opposite seems to be concerned about one particular way of plucking feathers from the chicken called Crown corporations. There have been many fashions in which Crown corporations contribute to the economy of Manitoba, and I have given some. Some of them pay a capital tax; some of them make transfers directly to programs, which are relevant to the mandate of that organization; others pay water rentals. There are a number of vehicles that are available. All of those should be considered with respect to maintaining the purpose of that organization and, at the same time, ensuring that Manitobans get among the best quality of service in the world. The essential point here, Mr. Speaker, is that those organizations remain within the control of Manitobans and that we have those options available to us.

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Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, listening to CBC this morning in an interview that was done with the wife of a farmer in western Manitoba, it was very indicative of how difficult the farm situation is in this province and has become. She said that she had a full-time job off the farm, and she also said that her farmer husband is not going to be on the farm this winter; he is going to move to Alberta to see if he can get a job in the oil fields to support paying off the debt on the farm, the recurring debt. There has been a lot of discussion about the possibility of changing crop insurance and how crop insurance is administered and applied. The former Minister of Agriculture for this province indicated a willingness to move crop insurance to a mandatory acreage insurance for unseeded acres.

I want to ask the Minister of Agriculture today: will she be directing her department to implement the unseeded acreage insurance as part of the basic mandatory insurance package for Manitoba farmers for the crop year 2000-2001?

Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minister of Agriculture and Food): Mr. Speaker, the member raises a very important issue. Had we had this policy in place last year and had the previous government implemented that policy when it was offered to them rather than turning it down, we would have not had the situation in southwestern Manitoba where we had the crisis, and farmers would have gotten a payment. Certainly it is a program that we are looking at, and we would have to look at long-term programs so that the people will be able to have insurance, that they can have something to rely on when they face this kind of unseeded acreage rather than ad hoc programs as we have had to have this year.

Mr. Jack Penner: I want to ask the minister: does she know that the option was actually there, that it was an option? The unseeded acreage option has been there for some years now for all farmers in Manitoba. What I am asking the minister is: is she prepared to ask her department to make it part of the mandatory basic insurance coverage, and is she going to do it for the year 2000-2001?

Ms. Wowchuk: Certainly we have had unseeded acreage insurance in the past. It has not worked. There was a very low take-up rate on it. We have to look at other options, and we are looking at this option. I ask the member opposite to stay tuned; we will have an answer for you very soon.

Mr. Jack Penner: I have been staying tuned and so have all our farmers in Manitoba been staying tuned to her negotiations with her friends in Ottawa, and it is very apparent that her ineffectiveness in negotiations–

Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I wonder if you could draw the member's attention to Citation 410 in Beauchesne: "supplementary questions require no preambles."

Mr. Speaker: On that point of order, the honourable Government House Leader does have a point of order. May I caution all members that a preamble is not required for a supplementary question.

Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for Emerson, please put your question.

Mr. Jack Penner: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I truly do apologize for bringing the correct information to this House because she has not been successful in convincing her federal counterparts to come with programs that will give our farmers in Manitoba comfort. I ask the minister–

Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, the member has just been brought to order, and yet he continues to flaunt the rules and your directive. I ask again if you would remind him to respect the rules of the House and your directives and simply pose his question with no supplementary.

Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for Emerson, please place your question.

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Mr. Jack Penner: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Then with my final supplementary question: what will the cost of premiums be if and when you decide to bring forward this program, and when will the applications be made available to Manitoba farmers? Will they be in time for the year 2000-2001?

Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the member for Emerson took some cheap shots at a very, very effective cabinet minister, and I am very disappointed in the language in his first out-of-order question that he posed to the Minister of Agriculture. We believe that the Minister of Agriculture has made more progress in 11 weeks on negotiating some of the very tangible options available for producers than the member opposite did in 11 years.

The member opposite also asked how successful we have been with the, quote, federal government. We are working on a co-operative, long-term–[interjection] Well, we can judge the zero results of members opposite's policy. I would ask members opposite, within the next three weeks we are very, very optimistic about concluding our negotiations in a very successful way for the producers of Manitoba and get away from the short-term, ad hoc crisis payments of the past and look at a more favourable program of the future under the leadership of our Minister of Agriculture.

Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): The International Joint Commission recently released an engineering report on Winnipeg's vulnerability to flood damage. The report concludes that there is a pressing need to improve the city of Winnipeg's flood defences, as well as the flood protection measures in place throughout the Red River Valley.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier: does the government agree with all the recommendations of the International Joint Commission's report, which is the flood protection for Winnipeg?

Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, no.

Mr. Helwer: Mr. Speaker, the First Minister met with Mr. Axworthy last Friday. I wonder if he could tell us what discussions they had about the implementation of the International Joint Commission's report.

Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, we both agreed that the recommendation to place a dam at Ste. Agathe and flood upstream communities would be very negative, and I am surprised the Conservative Party, with the question asking us to endorse all recommendations, would be endorsing a policy to flood all the communities upstream from Ste. Agathe. I am quite surprised that that is the position taken by the Conservative Party.

So we rejected the recommendation on the Ste. Agathe dam because of the upstream damage it would do. We agreed on that. We have our officials working in both departments on some of the measures that we can take in the short term. We are quite concerned about the '97 flood conditions and if there were any more negative weather conditions that would result in massive flooding in a number of communities. We are also concerned about the operation of the floodway and its impact on upstream communities, so we are looking, with the department of Natural Resources and the federal government, at a number of short-term recommendations that can hopefully relieve some of the pressure on flooding in Manitoba communities, both inside the city of Winnipeg and outside the city of Winnipeg. We are obviously looking at the longer-term half-billion-dollar item as in longer-term views.

Mr. Helwer: Mr. Speaker, could the Premier tell us: what is the government's time frame for implementing improvements to the province's flood protection system, as recommended in the International Joint Commission's report?

Mr. Doer: I met with the officials from the department of Natural Resources upon the release of the report. They are reporting back to us early January on their assessment of the IJC recommendations. Obviously, the flood conditions right now are favourable, but Manitobans know that flood conditions can change very, very rapidly in our province. I think all the snow was melted in March of '97, and then we had that massive blizzard shortly thereafter, causing such horrific conditions for many communities, so we are meeting very early in January. We raised this subject. We talked about the IJC report extensively at our meeting with the two levels of government. We are trying to work on ideas that will deal with this next spring if we can. Mr. Speaker, obviously the longer-term recommendations with the half billion dollars, we certainly want to have our own analysis of those recommendations.

The other thing, Mr. Speaker, we are also talking about is new highway construction. If they are going to pass over the area of the floodway, should we not be anticipating the inadequacies of our structures based on the existing floodway structures? So, in other words, if we build a road, such as twinning Highway 15, should we not look ahead to the future rather than build things to the past? So we are already trying to do that as well in government policy.

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Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health on fiscal management. Curiously, the government's first major expenditure, the $24.5 million, was not on child poverty, not on education, not on the farm crisis but on the mortgage on a white elephant, and it was made before the Provincial Auditor could complete his investigations. With the recent revelations that the former Tory government had committed to pay $10 million to SmartHealth for expenditures which were not approved, I ask the Minister of Health if he will give assurances to the people of Manitoba that he will not waste $10 million of taxpayers' money on unapproved activities. Will he show to the people of Manitoba that his business sense is improving, or is he going to throw away more money after white elephants?

Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for that question, and it is a two-part question. With regard to the mortgage, the member, I think, has difficulty understanding that the former government of Manitoba had already indebted us to that money. That money was gone when the former Premier and those Health ministers signed off. That money was committed. It was gone. It was a mortgage that was signed. Unauthorized by this Legislature, a 20-year mortgage was entered into. So all we did was take the mortgage and take it under our own ownership so we could have some control of it. So that money was not spent; that money was already spent by the previous government.

With regard to the SmartHealth boondoggle, Mr. Speaker, that was entered into by members opposite, and it is interesting that members opposite–we stood in this House day after day and questioned the expenditure of that funding, and I might add that the former caucus members supported the SmartHealth initiative. We always had difficulties with it. We did not think we should sign up a hundred million dollars of taxpayers' dollars on another boondoggle like Connie Curran or another frozen food boondoggle where they are going to make money. We are still waiting for the $4 million from Connie Curran. We are still waiting for the $15 million a year from frozen food, and we are still waiting for the hundred million dollars from SmartHealth that they promised we would get.

It is a travesty, Mr. Speaker, and I want to assure members opposite that we are examining this very carefully because we do not want to be part of a situation where the former government tried to conceal, in my opinion, what they were doing in regard to the SmartHealth agreement.

Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, my supplementary on fiscal management is to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs (Ms. Friesen). How much money, I ask, has the provincial government actually spent, not committed, but actually spent under the terms of the five-year Winnipeg Development Agreement, and is the low level of expenditure, as reported recently under the former Tory government, the fact that there was little commitment to the City of Winnipeg and only 14 departmental staff to serve half the population of Manitoba?

Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I do believe the honourable member has one question; this is his second. I would ask that you rule his second question out of order, and we move on in rotation.

An Honourable Member: Why did you not do that with the member for Emerson (Mr. Jack Penner)?

An Honourable Member: He is allowed.

Mr. Speaker: On the ruling of the honourable–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. May I caution all members that a supplementary question does not require a preamble.

The honourable Opposition House Leader, for clarification.

Mr. Laurendeau: For clarification, Mr. Speaker, my point of order is that his second question was not a supplementary question but a new question to a new minister. It had nothing to do with the first question, so that would be referred to as a second question, which he is not entitled to.

Mr. Speaker: On the same point of order, the honourable member for River Heights.

Mr. Gerrard: Both questions deal with fiscal management. One is a supplementary to the other.

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member does have a point of order. A supplementary question is raised to clarify information on the previous initial question. Would the honourable member for River Heights, please rephrase his supplementary question?

Mr. Gerrard: My supplementary to the Minister of Health: given the circumstances around the SmartHealth expenditure, what are the minister's plans for SmartHealth in the future?

Mr. Chomiak: After being very concerned about this deal for some time and raising it over and over again in the Legislature, and after not receiving any satisfaction from members opposite during the election campaign, we indicated we would undertake an audit of the process. The present Deloitte and Touche firm are actually looking at every financial configuration of this particular deal. I want members opposite to realize not only are there issues of expenditure of money and what appears to me to be an attempt by the former government to cover up their tracks in this regard, but there are also concerns about how far behind we have fallen in technology as a result of all of the initiatives in Manitoba being poured into this particular SmartHealth enterprise.

So not only are we examining all of the facets of the deal that was entered into by members opposite, but we are also pursuing all of the options available to us with respect to how we can develop the infrastructure technology in the health sector in the province of Manitoba, which has been locked into this SmartHealth agreement that is supposed to realize $100 million in savings, and all that money–pardon me, $200 million was supposed to go to enhance health care, and, like Connie Curran and like frozen food, we have not seen any of those dollars. In fact, it has cost us money.

Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): My second supplementary to the Minister of Health: will the minister provide reassurance that he will make this audit fully public before there are major decisions on new expenditures in this area?

Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, right now, because of the nature of the agreements entered into, we have asked Deloitte and Touche to give us accounting as well as legal advice with respect to the agreements, the negotiations and the counterclaims that were entered into by members opposite. We are very concerned.

To say that we are concerned would be an understatement with respect to the way the members opposite dealt with that agreement. We will make, on behalf of all of the public of Manitoba, all of the information possible public because of the concerns that I have with respect to negotiations, because of concerns regarding litigation and likewise. At this point, we are in a situation where we are awaiting the report from Deloitte and Touche, but I will make as much public as possible so that Manitobans will know what the story was with respect to the members opposite and the odyssey of SmartHealth.

Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Speaker, on December 6, the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs stood in the House and said, I quote: we are committed to the Bostrom report.

My question to the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs is: since he is so committed to the Bostrom report, will this government ensure that the selection committee is not a two-person committee, as outlined in the briefing note to this minister, but that it is comprised, as stated in the Bostrom report, of, and I quote: representatives from the First Nations, business, government, the general public, with assistance from experienced individuals in the industry?

Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Speaker, yes, we are committed to the Bostrom report. Its implementations are dealing with bringing revenue, economic development and employment opportunities to First Nations which is extremely important, and I am sure members opposite would realize that.

We have made a commitment to look at using the material within the Bostrom report, so I thank the member very much for that question.

Mr. Loewen: Well, Mr. Speaker, I will not have the temerity to ask the honourable minister–to thank him for his response for not answering the question.

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Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): My question to the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs who remains, as he says, committed to the Bostrom report: will he confirm that no destination gaming facilities will be allowed to proceed before input from surrounding communities and municipalities has been both provided and given as stated in the Bostrom report?

Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Speaker, our government is not encouraging or standing in the way of First Nations that are exploring their options with regard to this matter. There are ongoing negotiations. We are not standing in the road of First Nations people.

All I would like to say is that the negotiations are ongoing at present with AMC, and AMC is having ongoing negotiations with First Nations communities. We did not stand in the way of any kind of agreement. We did not put roadblocks and barricades in front of First Nations people trying to do better for themselves.

Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Speaker, it appears this government is doing nothing but listening to newfound friends, as opposed to consulting.

My second supplementary question to the minister. Based on his own briefing notes from his own department, will the minister now simply answer a simple question: is this government fast-tracking native gambling with a deadline for the RFP criteria as stated in here, principles, as indicated in this briefing note? Is native gambling being fast-tracked, yes or no?

Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Speaker, with regard to a number of different issues that were raised, the member opposite referred to "friends." Well, friends, the First Nations community of Roseau is consulting with one of their friends, Mr. Ernst, and we are not standing in the way of any First Nations community consulting with anyone with regard to this issue.

As I mentioned previously, there is ongoing consultation taking place, and there is dialogue happening. So what I would like to say is that the negotiations are still taking place. Thank you.

Mr. Scott Smith (Brandon West): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Highways and Government Services.

Being the minister responsible for The Emergency Measures Act, I wonder whether his office has heard anything at all from the federal government officials regarding Manitoba's ongoing request for a federal-provincial agreement on disaster assistance for farmers in southwestern Manitoba and in western Manitoba. It should be similar to the Red River Valley agreement that was received by the Red River Valley residents in 1997–if the minister would.

Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Highways and Government Services): Mr. Speaker, this province, going back to June 7, the previous government has been asking for one simple thing for southwest Manitoba in its time of difficulty. It is the same kind of treatment that Saguenay received in '96, that Red River received in '97, that the ice storm received in '98, specifically that items such as weed control, applied fertilizer, forest restoration will be covered, and also there will be a jobs and economic restoration initiative similar to what took place in 1997. We understand the difficulty in southwest Manitoba, and we urge the federal government to be just as generous as it was in the '97 situation in Red River.

Mr. Frank Pitura (Morris): Mr. Speaker, currently 750 kilometres north of Winnipeg, near Pipestone Lake, lies what could be a $500-million titanium mine and the potential of approximately a thousand jobs. Unfortunately, this potential project has been delayed due to a land dispute as to who should own the resource.

As the Minister of Industry, Trade and Mines has hired Mr. Lyle Skinner to do a fact-finding mission, can the minister advise this House as to the time frame given to Mr. Skinner to report back to her department, and will the minister commit to tabling a report upon its completion?

Hon. MaryAnn Mihychuk (Minister of Industry, Trade and Mines): Mr. Speaker, I thank the honourable member for asking the question about mining. I am very pleased to report to the House that indeed we have been working very diligently with the community of Cross Lake on trying to develop a process of trust, which is the first step required in any negotiation with First Nations. Unfortunately, negotiations had been poisoned, deadlocked, because of the hard feelings between the previous government and the community of Cross Lake.

It was not until we had successfully–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

Ms. Mihychuk: Mr. Speaker, we are pleased to announce that we have successfully incorporated all First Nations industry and government in the first ever aboriginal protocol document, the first in Canada and North America. That is the first step towards getting the mine. Thank you.

Mr. Pitura: I know that there are several options. The question is: what is the minister's plan in reference to the option of either the government or Cross Lake First Nation buying out Gossan Resources' 50 percent share of the deposit?

Ms. Mihychuk: Mr. Speaker, the negotiations with Cross Lake are in a sensitive position. We are working very closely with the band, with Gossan Resources, with the principals involved. It would be totally inappropriate to do the negotiation here in the House, and the member across the way should know better.

Mr. Pitura: Mr. Speaker, can the minister then advise the House what the estimated cost would be of the share that Gossan Resources owns?

Ms. Mihychuk: I guess that depends whose side you are on, and that varies. We are in the midst of negotiations. We are talking to all members of this. It is very important to the economy of Manitoba, as the member knows, very important to the people who live in the North. This is finally an opportunity where we can see First Nations participating as an equal partner. We will do everything we can on this side to get the project to work, not like years of stalling and unfortunate negotiations which sidetracked the whole project for years and years.

Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Speaker, the members for Fort Rouge, Flin Flon, Lord Roberts and Burrows have referred to the employment opportunities offered by call centres numerous times as McJobs. Last week the Minister of Industry, Trade and Mines (Ms. Mihychuk) said in reference to Gage Marketing opening a second call centre in Selkirk that the centres are an integral part of our economy.

Mr. Speaker, to the minister: according to the NDP, all call centres are an integral part of the community, or are they McJobs? Can you have it both ways? Would you please tell us?

Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): We have The Full Meal Deal with the Faneuil deal from members opposite. Certainly I wonder if the member for Fort Whyte is now claiming that $20 million in public liability for the Faneuil deal for 400 jobs was free enterprise that he supports and his party supports here in Manitoba.

Mr. Speaker, we–I think all of us–

An Honourable Member: Big Whopper.

Mr. Doer: Well, it was a Big Whopper. Twenty million dollars for 400 jobs at Faneuil, another one of the troika of boondoggles for members opposite. SmartHealth, frozen food, Faneuil, regrettably, have cost this province a considerable amount of money.

Mr. Speaker, I think it is important that, wherever possible, private industry and the government work–[interjection]

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Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, I think it is very important that all of us do what we can to make sure there are more full-time jobs available for our kids and our grandchildren, because we want and we know that a society that strives for full-time employment for our young people, for our unemployed people has a greater chance of putting down roots in our community and growing our communities and growing our future. So we make no apologies in trying to focus in on strategies that deal with full-time work.

The Gage Marketing company, I think, to the credit of the members opposite, did meet its initial employment targets, not like all the other companies that received money from the members opposite. The new operation in Selkirk, we believe also will meet its employment targets. We are also pleased to see that it is working on e-commerce and other ideas of the future in Selkirk.

All jobs are not created equally, and all grants, obviously, were not equally accountable to members opposite. We want to have a much more consistent policy so we can stay away from Faneuil in the future.

Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.

Farm Family of the Year Award

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin-Roblin): Mr. Speaker, the Manitoba Conservation Districts Association held its annual meeting a short while ago. Every year that association awards the Farm Family of the Year Award to a family in Manitoba who exemplifies and uses farm practices that encourage conservation techniques, accepted practices that improve the environment in rural Manitoba.

I am very proud to inform all my fellow members here today that constituents of mine by the names of Steve and Anita Kindzerski and their family were recipients of this award just two weeks ago at the Conservation Districts annual meeting. Steve and Anita and their family farm south of the community of Rorketon. I know the family from when I was the school principal at Rorketon. I know that the Kindzerskis are very committed to the conservation farm practices that they have been recognized here for.

I want to add that this is the second year in a row that constituents from Dauphin-Roblin have received this award, as Joe Federowich and his family won this last year.

So I am very pleased to join with everyone here today to congratulate Steve and Anita Kindzerski and their family on the receipt of this award. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. David Faurschou (Portage la Prairie): Mr. Speaker, Thursday last, December 9, the member for Riel (Ms. Asper) chose to rise and make some comments regarding the issue of child poverty and how it pertains to the city of Portage la Prairie, which is my constituency, and I feel I must respond.

I find it extremely disturbing that another member of this House would rise and put remarks on the record about another member's constituency without prior consultation with that elected representative for that constituency. While I can appreciate the member for Riel's concern regarding the very important issue of child poverty, I take issue with the way this member attempted to garner political mileage from the issue of child poverty. Unfortunately, child poverty is a reality, not only in Portage la Prairie but all across this nation. The comments she made about the poverty level in Portage were, in fact, based on the census data of 1996, not necessarily accurately reflecting what has happened in this community since that date.

Mr. Speaker, I can proudly say that residents, including myself, from Portage la Prairie have not buried their heads in the sand and have been very active in addressing this consideration, which unfortunately is an abnormality, of which the member for Riel (Ms. Asper) was obviously not aware.

We in co-operation with, that means I as a member, the Youth for Christ, the local Portage la Prairie School Division, the City of Portage la Prairie and others, have undertaken to address this issue. Here in Portage la Prairie we are very proud to say that we are on the leading edge of addressing poverty, and the 1996 figures do not adequately reflect the situation. I am very proud to say that we have some of the initiatives that were outlined in the throne speech where the schools are open on every occasion where warranted. Each of us as elected representatives must be extremely careful about the types of remarks we make in this House. The remarks must be accurate and fair, and they must be responsible for that statement.

Mr. Speaker: The honourable member's time has expired.

Mr. Tom Nevakshonoff (Interlake): Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to acknowledge a fine example of industrial development in the Interlake which I had the distinct pleasure of seeing this past week. The development I have referred to is called Vidir Machine Shop, and it was established by a Mennonite family, the Duecks in the Okno area just north of Arborg. The company, which employs in the neighbourhood of 80 people, manufactures equipment for the carpet industry, mainly rolling and cutting machines but also storage and dispensing racks, which can be found in most major retail outlets across the continent.

The company was started up by the father, who had hands-on experience installing carpets which led him to envision machines and equipment which would make this task easier. I want to acknowledge this particular accomplishment and that of the Mennonite people in general in the Okno and surrounding areas for their diversification away from primary agricultural production, which I feel is the key for survival and growth in rural communities such as you will find in the Interlake. Modern, environmentally friendly manufacturing such as this, accompanied by a parallel program of research and development, will ensure that this community of people will continue to grow and flourish as we enter into the new millennium.

While there, I was also shown an experimental heat-generating system that utilized round bales but took the process a step further in that temperatures achieved were much higher than normally reached by conventional burning, and the result was very little smoke released into the atmosphere. Actions such as this above all should be acknowledged, utilizing surplus capital to develop technology which will lessen the damage mankind does to the atmosphere. Hats off to Vidir Machine, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Frank Pitura (Morris): Mr. Speaker, Jack Murray passed away on November 18, 1999. Jack Murray was a very devoted husband, father and grandfather. Jack spent most of his productive life in Morris as a businessman, as mayor, and at the time of his death, his second term as councillor for the Town of Morris.

Jack served as mayor from 1971 to '86. He was actively involved at the Morris Development Corporation and the hospital board. At the time of his death, Jack was very much involved at the Morris Area Seniors, the Morris Manor Board, the Valley Regional Library and the Morris Ambulance Board. Jack was also a member of the Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Board.

Jack was an avid reader and had an extensive compendium of books in his study. Jack also had a very keen sense of humour and always had a joke or two to share with me after he gave me his advice for the day. In fact, his sense of humour was capsulized by his son David at the funeral when he shared with us that Jack Murray wanted to be cremated on his death, and the reason he gave for wanting to be cremated was that would be absolutely the last time people could ever call him an ash.

Jack Murray has left behind a legacy for the town and the community of Morris. His presence will be missed, and I know his wife and their children, Jackie [phonetic] and David, will carry the torch which he has passed proudly and with great energy. Thank you.

Mr. Jim Rondeau (Assiniboia): I would like to bring all members' attention to a number of activities that I have recently attended within the Assiniboia constituency. Ness Middle School, Hedges School, Heritage Park Children's centre, Fairlane daycare centre and John Taylor Collegiate concerts have all just recently taken place. I was impressed by these activities. They had excellent student, staff, parent and community involvement. I must commend all those who have spent countless hours volunteering their time and talents in these and other endeavours.

These activities provide excellent opportunities for the growth of all our children. Studies have shown that most CEOs and community leaders have participated in extracurricular activities such as bands, sports teams, et cetera. These activities develop interpersonal skills, communication and teamwork skills which contribute greatly to our society. Our government supports these and other initiatives which help develop the youth of our country into adults.

Thank you very much to all those people who have spent countless hours in activities to make our society stronger.

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Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for Pembina, on a committee change.

Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs be amended as follows: the honourable member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau) for the honourable member for Southdale (Mr. Reimer).

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): On a matter of House business, it is my understanding that there has been agreement to proceed with the condolence motions this afternoon and, following that, moving to Orders of the Day, the second reading of Bill 2, The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker: Agreed? [agreed]

Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): I move, seconded by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Filmon),

THAT this House convey to the family of the late Walter Clifton McDonald, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service, and that Mr. Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family.

Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, Walter Clifton McDonald served in this Legislature and was elected in 1949 as a member of the Liberal Party of this province, November 10 in fact. He represented the electoral district of Dufferin. He was re-elected in 1953 and again in 1958, and he served his province until 1959.

Walter is certainly a person who should be remembered in this Legislature for his community contributions and his community activity. He was a person who was employed by the Canadian Bank of Commerce, and he returned to Roland, Manitoba, after working in Ontario and Manitoba where he worked in the insurance business of his father. He operated this insurance business until 1986.

Walter was a school trustee for 25 years, and certainly he represented the community of Roland in that school trustee position. From there, he went to the Board of Regents of the University of Winnipeg, and then he was subsequently elected to this Legislature. Walter was a person who was involved in the establishment of the original Boys and Girls Club in his home community of Roland which eventually became the 4-H Club of that community.

Mr. Speaker, he was an individual who was a devoted member of the Freemasonry. He joined the Masonic Lodge in Fort Frances in 1927, and in 1929 he affiliated with the Lodge No. 70 in Roland. He was elected the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge in Manitoba in 1948. In 1945, he had become a member of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry in the Winnipeg Valley. He was elected a 33-degree Mason in '55, and in 1976 he was elected to serve a three-year period as a Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme Council of Canada. He was a charter member of the Royal Order of Scotland of Manitoba and served as the first Provincial Grand Master, a position he held for 10 consecutive years. He received the Legion of Honour degree in the order of DeMolay in 1971 in recognition of contributions to Freemasonry.

Mr. McDonald, as I say, was an individual who was elected for three terms in this Legislature, a record that not very many members are able to duplicate. He obviously was a person who had a great deal of credibility from his own community in that he had served on the school board and the board of regents. Mr. McDonald was predeceased by his wife, Jean. He has four children–Mildred, John, Isobel and Barrie.

On behalf of our party and members of our caucus, Mr. Speaker, we want to offer our sincere condolences to the McDonald Family and thank him for his contributions to his community of Roland and to the people of Manitoba.

Mr. Gary Filmon (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased, on behalf of my colleagues on this side of the House, to join with the Premier in paying tribute to Walter Clifton McDonald and expressing our great appreciation and respect for a lifetime of service that he devoted not only to his community but to the entire province.

Walter McDonald was not an individual that I knew, but certainly in reading his biography, you can see the rich history that he had of service and commitment to his fellow human beings. The Premier has referred to his involvement in the beginnings of the 4-H Club in his area, the devotion that he had to the United Church and teaching youth group Sunday school, the service that he had ultimately on the board of regents at the University of Winnipeg, his involvements to the highest levels in the Masonic Order in our province. All of these speak of a person who was very committed to public service and to the support of his fellow human beings throughout his community and the various organizations that were important in that community, in and around Roland, Manitoba.

Mr. McDonald, of course, served in this Legislature for nine and a half years. That is a period of time that is longer than the average. I believe it is about six years. So he had a significant contribution to make during his service here in this Legislature.

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He was active, as you can tell from his biography, for a long, long time, certainly at 96 years at passing. He was well into his 80s when he was still running his insurance agency. That is a very significant period of service in the business world as well as a member of many organizations and his public service. I think all of us should be grateful for Mr. McDonald's time in this Legislature, for all of the contributions that he made to public life in and around the community of Roland and for the great dedication he had to improving the circumstances of young people through his teaching of Sunday school, his establishment of the Boys and Girls Club and 4-H clubs and his service obviously at the board of regents at the University of Winnipeg and 25 years on the school board.

So I am delighted to join with the Premier (Mr. Doer) in expressing the condolences of members on this side of the House to his children, Mildred, John, Isobel and Barrie, and to his 17 grandchildren and his 12 great-grandchildren and to also express our gratitude for Walter Clifton McDonald's devotion and service to the people of this province.

Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I rise, Mr. Speaker, to add my voice to the leaders of the NDP and the Conservative Party to the expression of condolences to the family of Walter Clifton McDonald. I rise to add my voice to the appreciation for an individual who served Manitoba for many, many years, born in Roland in 1903, and in the years since then, through his contributions to the school board, his contributions to the Masonic Lodge, his contributions in many ways to the community of Roland and indeed the rural area around Roland.

They speak highly of Mr. Clifton McDonald, who was for almost 10 years a member of this Legislature, a representative of the Liberal Party at a time when there were major Liberal initiatives to enhance electrification in rural Manitoba. I think that it is a testament to the efforts of Mr. Walter Clifton McDonald and other Liberals of the day, their concern for rural Manitoba and indeed for all of Manitoba, that we have had major progress in those years and indeed since then. So I will conclude just in saying that it was Mr. McDonald who contributed a full life with an extraordinary record of service to Manitoba and indeed to the Liberal Party and to rural Manitoba. My condolences to the family and to friends.

Mr. Denis Rocan (Carman): Today I would like to say a few remarks in remembrance of Walter McDonald, the late member for Dufferin. Before I begin, though, I would just like to comment on what a worthy exercise I think this Assembly is conducting today.

It is a great honour for each of us to recognize our predecessors, and I think the families and friends of those who we remember here are grateful for our words.

When we recognize those who have passed on before us, we pay tribute to the longevity and sanctity of this Legislature. Frequent reflection on the contributions of those who have passed before us serves as an invaluable guide to continuing the sound governance that this province has enjoyed.

Walter Clifton McDonald, the late member for the electoral district of Dufferin, was born in 1903, nearly a century ago, to a wealthy land-owning family in Roland, Manitoba. In fact, the town of Roland got its name from Walter's father, Roland McDonald. Walter inherited a large land-owning estate in the locale of the province and was an esteemed member of the community. The late member would call Roland home for his entire life and was dedicated to the continued prosperity of the town.

His contributions to the region are many. I think it is very appropriate for me, as a representative of that part of the province, to mention some of them here today.

As I have noted in this House before, Roland is the birthplace of the 4-H Club of Canada. In his youth, the late member was one of the charter members of this organization, which was called then the Roland Boys and Girls Club. It was his participation in this club that would mark the beginning of his community involvement. In his adulthood, he went on to serve on numerous boards and committees. Quite notably, he served as a trustee of the Roland School District for 25 years.

Despite his dedication to his family's insurance business, the late member's services were by no means limited to his home community. He spent four years on the Board of Regents of United College, now the University of Winnipeg, and, as we all know, he was an elected member of the Manitoba Legislature.

The honourable member was first sent to the Legislature by his constituents in 1949, when he ran as a Liberal Progressive. The voters of Dufferin returned him to this House on two subsequent occasions before he was defeated after some 10 years of service.

Although I never knew Walter McDonald personally, I share a special bond with him. Throughout his long life, he was a dedicated and honoured member of the Masonic Lodge. I too am committed to the Masonic Order. This commonality makes us brothers. It is a true privilege to be a Mason, and the late member did our heritage proud, as was described to me one time on one of my outings with the former Premier, a very dear friend of ours, D.L. Campbell, who spoke very highly of Mr. McDonald.

He was elected a 33-degree member of the Masonic Lodge in 1955. He served as a Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme Council and was a charter member of the Royal Order of Scotland. In 1971, he received a Legion of Honour degree in recognition of his contribution to Freemasonry. It is indeed an honour to have served with this man.

To conclude my remarks, I want to extend my condolences to the McDonald family. You have met with great loss, but it is a loss that is shared by all of us. Walter was a valued member of this House during his time of service. It is with heavy hearts that we remember him today. His contributions to the province of Manitoba are very much appreciated.

Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr. Speaker, I, too, would like to put just a few comments on the record regarding Walter Clifton McDonald.

In the early '70s, I had an opportunity to meet with him several times. Among the many accomplishments that he had, another one was that of giving legal advice. I do not believe that he was a lawyer. However, he did offer advice. In this capacity, I purchased property and he did the paperwork for me at that time.

I learned to know him as a man who was a dedicated person, someone who was dedicated to his community. As has already been said, he lived in the Roland municipality, in that area, for most of his life. He served many of the people within that area. So I had my opportunity to learn to know him in that capacity as one who was doing some of the paperwork when legal transactions needed to be made.

He was a friendly man. I enjoyed visiting with him. He told me of the opportunities that he had had in his lifetime and the many opportunities that he had had to serve the public in many different ways.

He was energetic. I always found him inspiring, so I, too, would like to also express my condolences to the family and just thank them for the opportunity that I had to learn to know him and for the inspiration that he was to me.

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Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt this motion?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Mr. Speaker: Would honourable members please rise and remain standing to indicate their support for the motion.

Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): I move, seconded by the member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard),

THAT this House convey to the family of the late Cornelius Wiebe, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service, and that Mr. Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family.

Mr. Doer: I think we all knew of Dr. Cornelius Wiebe. We were aware, certainly those of us who had not had a chance to meet him directly, of his reputation. I certainly had heard of his reputation before I was elected to office and have heard about it since I was elected to office. He was an individual who is being eulogized today, but, Mr. Speaker, he was a person whose legislative achievement of one term on June 6, 1932, to reside in this Legislature to 1936 is quite frankly dramatically eclipsed by his human reputation and record as a medical doctor in Manitoba.

I believe the headline in the paper stated that 6,000 babies were born under his medical supervision. Six thousand babies in the Pembina Valley were born under his medical supervision. What a tremendous, tremendous legacy that he has to the thousands and thousands of families over the 50 or so years he was a medical doctor–it must have been longer even–that he had provided so much joy and so much happiness to so many people through his work as a medical doctor in the Pembina Valley.

I recall, of course, that he was given the Order of Canada a couple of years ago. I remember Romeo LeBlanc issued the Order of Canada. I remember the kind of media attention it so correctly developed and received for this great human being that was being awarded the Order of Canada in his nursing home at 105 years of age. As I understand it, he had only moved shortly before that to the nursing home, that he had resided in his own residence prior to that period of time.

Mr. Speaker, Dr. Cornelius Wiebe retired at age 85, but what stories he could tell. It is, again, the history, and the media contained some of the stories upon his death in July of this year, of Dr. Wiebe going to farm homes and delivering babies at those farm homes, but getting there by sleigh to be able to have this joy successfully completed by the families that he was involved in.

He not only had the personal satisfaction and joy of being such a well-known medical doctor in his own community of Winkler, but he also left other programs behind for his fellow citizens. He worked hard for handicapped kids, and he established the Valley Rehabilitation Centre in his community. He was a founding member of the Bethel Hospital in Winkler. He was involved in the school board for 25 years. He was a member of the College of Physicians and Surgeons. He was a president of the Manitoba Medical Association, obviously having the respect of his peers.

So as we recognize Dr. Wiebe here today for his term in office, we have to acknowledge that his contributions in medicine, as I say, eclipsed his political career in this Legislature.

But we would like to congratulate him for that election here to this Legislature, because it, again, shows and demonstrates tangibly the respect and credibility he had in this community, whether it was to hold office in the school board which it appears to me he has held throughout his provincial legislative term, or to hold office in the Legislature, or to hold office for a period of time with the College of Physicians and Surgeons and the Manitoba Medical Association.

I know of many people who claim to have come to this world with the help of Dr. Wiebe, and I am sure that there is, as I say, lots of stories across the way. I am sure there are lots of members across the way whose first speech was actually given to Dr. Wiebe and not to this Legislature.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Dr. Wiebe is succeeded by his daughters, Verna Bueckert and Thelma, and his son, Leonard. His first wife, Helena, predeceased him, and his late wife, Ann, also predeceased him. Dr. Wiebe certainly leaves to mourn a number of grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, it was obviously a long and successful and warm life he led. In reading some of the biographies on Dr. Cornelius Wiebe, it certainly came to my attention that Mavis Reimer wrote a book: Cornelius W. Wiebe - A Beloved Physician.

As we pay tribute to his legislative career here in this Legislature, we pay tribute to a life that contributed to his fellow human beings, and a life of medicine that is full of joy and full of thousands of people of Manitoba and beyond that have benefited from his medical skills and from his medical dedication.

Mr. Gary Filmon (Leader of the Official Opposition): It is a pleasure for me, on behalf of my colleagues on this side of the House, to join with the Premier (Mr. Doer) and his colleagues in paying tribute to Dr. Cornelius Wiebe.

Although Dr. Wiebe only served in this Legislature for four years, his biography reads as a lifetime of service to people in so many different respects. As a family practitioner for 53 years, he has contributed mightily to the development of families and the community in and around Winkler.

He, of course, was founder of Bethel Hospital in Winkler, an institution with which I am familiar, having been there and visited people at various times over the years. He organized the Winkler branch of the Association of Retarded Children in 1958 and established there a school for retarded children in 1963 and the resulting Valley Rehabilitation Centre, a sheltered workshop that I have visited on a number of occasions as well that to this day continues to do a wonderful job of providing activity and a productive work environment for those with mental disabilities.

Twenty-five years on the school board during that period of time in which he was a full-time practitioner, delivering, as the Premier has indicated, over 6,000 babies, remarkable that he had the time to do all that. In three different terms he spent 10 years as an elected member of the College of Physicians and Surgeons of our province culminating in the presidency in 1945-46, president as well of the Manitoba Medical Association in 1952-53.

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He has served his community and the people of this province in so many different ways that he richly deserved the honour of being invested in the Order of Canada by Governor General Romeo LeBlanc earlier this year. It really is a remarkable record of service and achievement that we are celebrating in recognizing his life and his career here in this Legislature.

So, Mr. Speaker, my colleagues and I add our wishes of celebration to those that have been offered by the Leader of the New Democratic Party, the Premier (Mr. Doer), to the children of Dr. Wiebe, Verna, Thelma and Leonard, and the five grandchildren and 11 great-grandchildren who survive him. Theirs is a very rich legacy from their father, grandfather and great-grandfather, a legacy of tremendous and devoted service to his community and to the people of this province.

He leaves behind so many achievements in the field of medicine and in the field of setting up institutions for those with mental disabilities in our province. He leaves behind a great record of devotion to so many different organizations, and we, as a province, are richer because of his devoted service to community and to province. We extend our condolences, and we also celebrate the many things that Dr. Cornelius Wiebe left for our province to be richer.

Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I am here today to join with the Premier and the Leader of the Opposition in extending condolences as the member for River Heights and the Leader of the Liberal Party to family and friends of Dr. Cornelius Wiebe. Indeed, for an individual who lived for some 106 years, it is perhaps less condolences than a real celebration of achievement, a time to say, wow, what an individual and what a contribution that Dr. Wiebe made to Manitoba.

Born in Altona in the 1800s, he began the practice of medicine in Winkler in 1925. Dr. Wiebe serves as an example of the sort of contribution that physicians can make to the public life of Manitoba and indeed to politics in Manitoba. Though he practised for 53 years, he was elected and served admirably and faithfully for Morden and Rhineland from 1932 to 1936.

He contributed, not just in the political arena and not just in the delivery of many thousands of babies, but in many other ways to the health care system of Manitoba. He founded the Bethel Hospital in Winkler in 1935. He served as an elected member of the College of Physicians and Surgeons for three terms, the first of which from 1942 to 1947, during which period he served as president of the College of Physicians and Surgeons, 1945 and 1946. He was, in addition, president of the Manitoba Medical Association, 1952-53.

I want to speak for a moment on his contributions to children, not only in delivering babies, but his concern for the health of children, his concern in particular for those children who were retarded, those children who had disabilities in one form or another. Dr. Wiebe organized and supervised the Winkler branch of what was then the Association for Retarded Children in 1958 and established a school in Winkler in 1963 and the Valley Rehabilitation Centre in 1970, continuing to be active and concerned about the health care of children well on in his years.

Indeed, his concern for health care continued with his founding in 1982 of the Dr. C.W. Wiebe Foundation, providing instruments and technology not otherwise available for the Manitoba Health Hospital Commission Plan. So year by year, decade by decade, in many facets of health care, Dr. Wiebe made a significant contribution.

I should add that in addition to politics, serving in the Legislature in addition to his work in the health care area, his work and his dedication to the local school system, his service for 25 years beginning in 1929 on the school board is also notable.

So we are here together to honour and to celebrate the life of Dr. Wiebe, who made an incredible contribution over many years, a contribution that was recognized earlier this year in May by the special trip that Governor General Romeo LeBlanc made to Winkler to invest Dr. Wiebe as a member of the Order of Canada.

I should add, Dr. Wiebe was a life member of the Manitoba Liberal Party. It is in this context that I have a particular pleasure for his contributions as a Liberal and in the Liberal Progressive administration back in 1932 to '36 and his contributions in politics. I would emphasize and applaud and note the importance of the continuing growth of health care professionals in politics from then till now.

Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr. Speaker, I want to begin my reflection by saying what a true honour, what a privilege it is to rise and recognize Dr. Cornelius Wiebe in the House today. Dr. Wiebe was and continues to be a real inspiration for us all. It is with the greatest respect that I make my remarks today. He will be well remembered. Just as an aside, he was instrumental in assisting me into this world, as he was with my three brothers and my two sisters. So of those 6,000 that he helped deliver, we were some of them.

Dr. Wiebe was born in 1893 at a time when the world was a very different place than the one we know today. In his early life, automobiles and electric lighting were still a rare luxury and life was harder on almost every front. That noted, it is all the more incredible that he was able to grace us with his presence for 106 years. This is a man who had completed his schooling by the time the First World War broke out and was a practising medical doctor before the Second World War.

In reference to the early times, I remember the stories that he told and some of them were sort of scary. There were times when he made house calls, and he did that at great length and would never think twice of going out. In fact, it had been in spring and some of the bridges had been washed out, and he needed to get to this home where a lady was delivering a child. The bridge was out. He had a nurse with him, and this is where the story comes from. He did not repeat this, but the nurse did. So they had driven up to where the washout was taking place. He had backed up and taken a real good speed and in fact had made it over the washout and did deliver the child, so this was truly doctors going to the homes and practising medicine.

The life of Dr. Cornelius Wiebe was a full one, even for a man who lived to 106 years old. He began his career as a physician in Winkler in 1925, and he would remain in Winkler for the rest of his life. The achievements in his medical career are numerous. They include the founding of the Bethel Hospital, the Winkler branch of the Association for Retarded Children, the Winkler School for Retarded Children and the Valley Rehab Centre.

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I would just like to expand on those. It was his desire that those children, and in those days they were called "closet children," that they come out of closet, that in fact they would be recognized as children and truly people who could and would be productive and would be able to accomplish something in this world. It is a week ago on Friday that I went to a concert where 120 of those people, who have some mental disabilities, gave a Christmas concert and they sing wonderfully. They have some absolutely astounding talents, and yet though as they were at that time, and this was many years ago when he started the Valley Rehab Centre, these were children who were not recognized for the abilities that they had.

When it comes to music many of them shine, and here again I want to give the example of two elderly ladies who attended Valley Rehab, and yet though musically the one plays the guitar, the other the piano, and they will just keep on going. They know all the Christmas carols that are out there, and the way to get them to stop from performing is to pull the plug on the electric organ and then stop. They do not mind, but they can keep on going. So these were the talents that Dr. Wiebe saw in people. It was his desire that the Valley Rehab be established and of course as I indicated he was instrumental in doing that.

Further to this, along with four other doctors, he established the Winkler Medical Clinic in 1974. Dr. Wiebe was elected to the Manitoba College of Physicians and Surgeons on three occasions between 1942 and 1963 and served as that organization's president from 1945 to '46. He also acted as a president of the Manitoba Medical Association in 1952 to '53. His contribution to the town of Winkler and his contribution to medicine and patient care in this province was invaluable.

I have called Winkler home for many years now, and I can testify to the tremendous legacy Dr. Wiebe has left there. The many generous initiatives he undertook will be appreciated for many years to come. Dr. Wiebe's accomplishments are to be found outside the medical profession as well. Beginning in 1929, Dr. Wiebe was a member of the local school board for three decades. From 1932 to 1936, he served the people of Manitoba as a member of the Legislative Assembly.

It should be humbling for all members who sit in this Chamber today to be in the company of this most extraordinary man. The province is indeed fortunate to have benefited from the services of Dr. Wiebe, and here again I would like to just take an aside, when he was 98 years old, he reprimanded some of his colleagues, the local doctors, for not having attended some of the medical conferences that were taking place in Winnipeg. He in fact asked if he could have a ride to Winnipeg when the next conference would be taking place. He was a lifelong learner, and if we could use that term it would be certainly something that we would want to say of Dr. Wiebe.

It has been said that Cornelius Wiebe was born ahead of his time. His tremendous compassion for the handicapped, regardless of the fact that many of them had been rejected by the rest of society was a sign of a true philanthropist and pioneer. This last summer, the Governor General of Canada, on his reception of Dr. Wiebe into the Order of Canada, said that although Dr. Wiebe was born in the 19th Century, he did not have a 19th Century mind. His Honour told Dr. Wiebe, and I quote: you were way ahead of your time in your desire to give education and training opportunities to people with a mental handicap.

Today I would suggest that perhaps Dr. Wiebe is still ahead of his time, as our society can still learn much from his leadership, his dedication and his compassion. I happened to be privileged to be present at the time when he did get the Order of Canada, when he got that award, and he tried to shrug it off and say, well, it really was not something that he deserved. He was very appreciative of it. In talking to him at that time, he recognized the fact that he had been around for many, many years, but, certainly, he wanted to give recognition to other people who had helped him accomplish so much.

With those words, I would like to conclude by saying again how much Dr. Wiebe meant to the people of Winkler. The beloved physician will be long remembered and forever loved by those who have had the good fortune of knowing him.

On behalf of this Legislature, I want to extend our best to those family members who have survived him and to say thank you to the doctor for everything he has done for us. Thank you.

Mr. Harry Schellenberg (Rossmere): Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to express condolences for Dr. Cornelius Wiebe. I feel honoured to speak at this occasion. I realize he once sat in this Chamber as an MLA from 1932 to 1936, but I want to pay tribute to him as a doctor who was well known across Manitoba.

We all know that Dr. Wiebe lived in Winkler and served his community as a doctor from 1925 to 1978. He was very involved in his community in many ways, but I will be concentrating on his career as a doctor and leave his community contribution to other MLAs from southern Manitoba.

Before I say any more about Dr. Wiebe, I would like to point out that I grew up on a farm five miles north of Boissevain, which is about 150 miles from Winkler. The question is why would I be interested in paying tribute to Dr. Wiebe who lived in a community 150 miles away? Well, Dr. Wiebe served our family for many years. His name was often heard in our community, in our home. He was well known in many communities across Manitoba, not just Winkler.

Our family often went to see Dr. Wiebe in Winkler. We appreciated the service of the local doctors, but the reputation of Dr. Wiebe was so great that we would travel to Winkler for a second opinion. When our family had been to Dr. Wiebe, we felt we got a definitive answer. Because we had such great trust and faith in Dr. Wiebe, we then felt assured we got the proper answer.

I have risen today to speak in this Chamber because my family felt that Dr. Wiebe at one time saved our father's life, and I would like to share this story that speaks highly of Dr. Wiebe with you. I can recall my father getting very ill in the year 1954. We took him to the local doctor in Boissevain, and we were not quite happy with the results. That evening, our family had a serious discussion about what to do. We knew he was very ill and we decided to take him to Dr. Wiebe in Winkler. Winkler, as I have said, was 150 miles away and much of the way there was a gravel road. The roads were quite rough, and the maximum speed was about 50 miles per hour, so it was a three-hour trip.

All these obstacles did not stand in our way because we had our minds made up that we had to get our father to see Dr. Wiebe in Winkler. We did not even make an appointment with Dr. Wiebe. We just placed our father in the back seat of the car and went to Winkler. We knew Dr. Wiebe would accept him, and we knew he would be placed in a hospital right away. We then felt that our father was in the best medical care possible.

There was a time, as a family, when we felt that father might pass away because he had sleeping sickness. However, over several weeks, he recovered, returned home. My father lived a long life after that. Our family thanks Dr. Wiebe for the care that he gave our father. We think that he was instrumental in restoring his health. We pay tribute to this great doctor, who was a servant to all the people who came to him for help. Dr. Wiebe was a great doctor because he was a caregiver who took a deep interest in the people he served.

So today I have risen in this Chamber to pay tribute on behalf of my family for the services that Dr. Wiebe provided to our family over the many years. We will always remember his great work. That is why he was invested with the Order of Canada in May 1999.

Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, I humbly rise today to put a few words on record in appreciation for the tremendous service that Dr. Wiebe gave to this province and indeed to his country. I think the family of Dr. Wiebe is extremely honoured and proud and should be honoured and proud of the tremendous service that he provided not only to his community but to the community of humanity at large. Much has been said about his work that he did for those who were less able to help themselves and for the tremendous appreciation that he had for educating especially our young and for the services in the medical area.

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But I know Mr. Wiebe in a bit of a different sense. When I was elected in 1988, he wrote me a little note and indicated that true leadership was not only earned but in fact had to be demonstrated. He indicated clearly that community service had rewards way beyond what could be stated verbally. I think he demonstrated that kind of involvement and belief in community by appearing in person at the Threshermen's Reunion just two years ago when he was 104 years old. He was sitting in his car watching the opening ceremonies, which we held at that time on a flat deck outside. When I approached him after the ceremonies, he said: this is truly what we have to do. We have to leave a legacy for our young people, for how are they going to know where they came from if we do not give them that?

He was involved in the ag society. He was involved, although maybe not always personally, but demonstrated that kind of leadership by being there and by participating and by encouraging the establishment of the Threshermen's Museum between Morden and Winkler and ensuring that the history that the area and the province should be proud of was visible.

He was involved in many, many other functions, far too numerous to name, outside of his medical profession and outside of his involvement in the educational community for the establishment of such institutions we call now as the credit union in Winkler, the co-operative movement in Winkler. Many of the other foundations that have been established to help people were his true identity. Those of us who have served in his footsteps really as members of the Legislature, as community leaders and other aspects, can always point with pride at history and the leadership that Dr. Wiebe demonstrated.

So to his family today, we say to you we are proud to have been associated with him; we are proud to have followed in his footsteps in this Legislature, and we truly have a deep appreciation for his service to his community, his province and his country.

Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Mr. Speaker: Would honourable members please rise and remain standing to indicate their support for the motion.

James Wallace McKenzie

Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): I move, seconded by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Filmon),

THAT this House convey to the family of James W. McKenzie, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service, and that Mr. Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family.

Mr. Doer: James Wallace McKenzie, or as most of us would know him by, Wally, passed away in September of this year at the age of 85. I think all of us on the campaign trail at that time stopped and thought about that and were very saddened to hear the news. I know that members opposite were in the same caucus as him, and I have heard stories, upon my election in '86, about his oratory skills, his sense of humour, his warmth, his kind of feisty representation of his constituents. It is an honour to stand here today, but I was very sad to hear of his passing just a few months ago.

Wally, Mr. McKenzie, was elected on June 23, 1966. He was re-elected in '69, '73, '77 and '81. That is truly a remarkable political career. He did not seek re-election in 1986. Twenty years of elected terms in Manitoba is an achievement rarely met by members of this Legislature that have the privilege to serve. He did not seek re-election in 1986, and with his reputation I know he certainly had the credibility of his community to carry on when he made his decision to pass the torch to another member.

Wally was from Plenty, Saskatchewan. He served in the RCAF from 1941 to 1945. You know, I am attending a funeral tomorrow of an old friend that served in the Second World War, and you are reminded when you read this, the material of James Wallace McKenzie, that, every day, people who fought and basically risked their lives so that we can have elections, so that we can have democracy, so that we can have freedom of the press, every day, another person passes away and another person takes with them the great fight for democracy that they risked their young lives for years ago. I want to thank James Wallace McKenzie on behalf of his fellow citizens and his country for serving in the RCAF during the Second World War.

Wally was the director of the Co-op Credit Society of Manitoba. He was a member of the Chamber of Commerce. He was president of the North Central Hockey League, and I do not know whether the member for La Verendrye (Mr. Lemieux) was influenced in his early hockey career in the Russell community and that quadrant of the province from his volunteer work in that regard. He was an executive member and officer of the Army and Navy Legion in Inglis, Manitoba.

He was married to Hilda Rose in 1939. He had three children, Donna, Judith Anne and Glenn, and, of course, we know Glenn is the mayor now of Swan River and a person who is dedicated to his community and his fellow citizens, carrying on the political legacy of the McKenzie family.

He was selected by former Premier Lyon to be the Deputy Speaker in 1977, and one can imagine the criteria for a parliamentarian like former Premier Lyon in terms of making those decisions. Even though I was not in this Legislative Chamber, I can imagine that this selection or this nomination to fulfill this duty was a clear indication of his knowledge of the rules and his ability to chair this Chamber, because I know that former Premier Lyon put a high priority on parliamentary democracy, the rules of the Legislature and parliamentary debate.

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Mr. Speaker, I know, as I say, that Wally was well known by members opposite. I know he was well known by our members who served prior to 1986. I am sure some of the more interesting stories will be revealed to us today. I can remember some of them in the media, but I think it is safe to say that my experience with Mr. McKenzie was that he was a gregarious individual, a friendly individual, a feisty individual, one who could make his point with a sense of humour and one who always remembered his constituents.

On behalf of our party, I would like to send our condolences to the McKenzie family and thank the McKenzie family for the contributions and sacrifices they made so that Wally could contribute so much over 20 years to our community and contribute so much over his 85 years to Manitoba and Canada.

Mr. Gary Filmon (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, it is also a privilege for me on behalf of our party and my colleagues to be able to say a few words in remembrance and appreciation of the life and service of James Wallace McKenzie. As the Premier (Mr. Doer) has indicated, Wally passed away in the midst of our election campaign this fall. It was a great shock and sadness to us. I was up in Swan River at the time, and his son Glenn, the mayor up there, was not there because he was with the family. We were all very saddened by it. I had sent him greetings and congratulations on the occasion of his 85th birthday back in June, so we were very sorry not to be able to be there at the funeral of somebody that we all very much appreciated and admired.

His legal name was James Wallace McKenzie. I only knew him as Wally or Warfield. I assumed that that nickname was because of Wallis Warfield Simpson, the wife of King Edward VIII, but Warfield was what he was often referred to within our caucus. He was absolutely a gentleman, a gregarious, friendly, warm, outgoing individual whose face always had a perpetual smile and a very strong handshake.

Wally was somebody who had lived life with people, and he was part of the group that Duff Roblin tried to surround himself with. Duff, when I sought his advice about how you seek a person to run as your candidate, he said you go to the community and you find the most popular individual in the community, and it does not matter what their politics are, you convince them to run for your party.

After Wally served in the grain industry in Inglis and those of you who know Inglis know that it is the grain industry, all elevators, grain elevators there. Regrettably none of them are functioning any longer and they have been named a heritage site because of all of these grain elevators lined up in this small community. But Wally stepped aside from the grain industry and started a general store and as the general storekeeper he knew everybody in the community, and everybody liked Wally and so he was a natural for Duff to recruit as a candidate for his party.

Certainly there are many, many stories and they are all happy stories about Wally. Even during the time that I was running against his son-in-law for the leadership of our party, Wally remained absolutely friendly, always had a kind word and a smile on his face. In the days after he was out of this Legislature, he would show up at events in Russell or Roblin or Inglis with a smile on his face asking where is Janice or how is Janice doing, and it was just a wonderful, wonderful experience to be in his presence.

I referred in my remarks to the throne speech earlier about feeling that I had served with giants by being elected as early as I did in 1979 and being there at the end of some of the eras, people like the two Sauls, Miller and Cherniack, and Bud Boyce and Morris McGregor and so on. Well, Wally was one of those. He could stand up on the spur of the moment and speak on any issue with great clarity and great conviction and add to the debate very strongly in this House. Wally also, of course, added to the fun quotient in this House at all times.

In those days we sat three evenings a week and there was firstly the old St. Charles crowd, the St. Charles Hotel crowd who had essentially bunked together. People from all parties, Liberals, New Democrats and Conservatives, from out of the city lived at the St. Charles Hotel, and there was a very great camaraderie. The Premier (Mr. Doer) refers to the views of those who served with Wally from his party. Indeed many of them knew Wally as a friend because they all lived at the St. Charles Hotel and there were many social events. In those days of course, with sitting evenings, there was always the question of whether or not you had enough time to go home for dinner or whether or not you would stay down and have dinner and with whom you would have dinner.

In our caucus, by the late '70s, many of the rural members now had apartments in the surrounding area to this Legislature, and being the generous spirited people they were and the very hospitable people they were, would always find a reason to invite somebody over and it might be that Henry Einarson had brought in some chickens or that somebody else had brought in some venison if it were the fall. But the other occasion always seemed to be that it was Wally McKenzie's birthday, so we had to have a get-together. I can always remember as a rookie member of caucus thinking to myself, oh, gosh, well, that is a great idea. I will phone Janice and tell her I will not be home for dinner because we are celebrating Wally's birthday. Well, she caught on before I did that Wally's birthday seemed to come up with great rapidity and she said, well, it certainly is not a year since the last time you celebrated Wally's birthday. I finally figured out that Wally's birthday was a proxy for getting together and having a celebration, and it did happen more than once a year I am afraid to say, but it was always terrific and that was the signal that we would get together over dinner somewhere at one of the apartments downtown.

The other thing, of course, and you see it in Wally's biography, he played and coached baseball and hockey. I can recall Wally, at 70 years of age, playing with us in a game against the media and playing very, very well. Wally was still a very able ballplayer. I was told that he was a semipro in his day. Certainly I believe that by his skill with the bat at 70 years of age. It was a sight to see. He still laced on the skates, they tell me, well into his later years, involved in so many different things.

The Premier (Mr. Doer) has mentioned the Legion. He was very, very proud of his service in the air force. He was a member of the Lion's Club, and he received an award for humanitarian service from that organization, honorary life member of both the federal and provincial Progressive Conservative parties. I was very pleased to be a part of the ceremony at which he was installed an honorary life member of our provincial party.

One other story that I had almost forgotten was in this House. We are not allowed exhibits, Mr. Speaker. The member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) recalls this. We were in opposition, and Wally got word from some people that, well, firstly, he happened to notice that there were pigeons dead around the building, and that seemed to happen regularly. Wally sleuthed out the reason why. Of course, Government Services, in their wisdom, had found that there was just too much mess around the building. The easiest way to clean it up was to get rid of the pigeons. The easiest way to get rid of the pigeons was to poison them. The minister got up and denied it. The next day Wally came in, repeated the question, and reached under his desk and pulled out of a brown-paper bag a dead pigeon. The House erupted, of course. It made the six o'clock news. The Speaker ruled him out of order, but Wally made his point. That was Wally. He had so many different ways in which he contributed to life in this province.

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The other aspect of Wally was that he loved to sing. In those days we had a number of talented musicians within the caucus. Certainly my colleague, who I know will want to add to the discussion on this motion, the member for Lakeside (Mr. Enns), was one who, like myself, sang with Wally at caucus get-togethers, but Wally was a musician. Wally had played in a dance band, in fact many dance bands, I understand, in the Russell area for many years and entertained with his double-bass violin at personal care homes even later on after his time in public office.

Certainly Wally's family has much of which to be proud. They have a tremendous legacy of public service. I want to, on behalf of Janice and our family and all of the people who have admired and worked with Wally over the years, offer our condolences to the family but also our congratulations on the legacy that he has left of great service to this province and great contributions to this province. To Pat, to Judy and to Glenn, to the nine grandchildren and five great-grandchildren, we extend to them certainly our best wishes in the celebration of a life of service and devotion to the province of Manitoba.

Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Mr. Speaker, I, too, am honoured to rise this afternoon to add a few words in the celebration of Wally McKenzie's life and to add a few words in the motion of condolence to his family in the recent passing of Wally.

Wally was my first call when the election was called in August. My wife and I decided that we would begin our campaign by visiting our former MLAs in our area. As members know, Wally McKenzie and Harry Graham were both still living in our communities. Wally was our first call on that particular afternoon. Wally and Hilda had just celebrated their 60th anniversary and Wally had celebrated his 85th birthday just a few months before that. Although Wally was suffering from some illness, he still was very much interested in what was going on in the campaign and indeed in how our province was progressing.

Through the years that I represented our communities, I have to say that Wally was not only a mentor but a great teacher in the ways in which an MLA should and could represent his or her constituency. As members have said, as the Premier (Mr. Doer) has said and the Leader, Wally was a long-time resident of the community of Inglis. He and his wife, Hilda, moved to the Inglis community shortly after they were married where Wally undertook to operate and to manage the Reliant company grain elevator at the time. It is still one of the elevators that is standing in the community and has been designated as a heritage elevator. Just this past summer, there was a bit of a box lunch and a picnic next to the elevators, and the paint had come off the one elevator. It had not been restored yet, and you could see the Reliant name on the elevator underneath the paint that had come off, and we had a bit of a conversation about Wally's years as he operated and managed the Reliant grain elevator.

Wally and Hilda became known in the community very quickly because of their tremendous participation in all aspects of the community life. As has been said, Wally participated not only in sports but in all avenues of community life. He belonged to the community organizations, the Lion's Club and many other smaller organizations within that community as well as his church. Both he and his wife contributed very much to the community. As their children came along, their children learned that community life was important and they too contributed.

Wally loved sports and was an athlete to be contended with, whether it was in baseball or in hockey. As a young man, I am told, there were very few people who could indeed compete with the skills of Wally, whether it was in baseball or in hockey. But he went on, after participating actively himself, to coach many young people in our communities, not only in the community of Inglis but in Roblin and in Russell, and soon the entire area came to know Wally as a man who not only loved sport but loved people, loved young people and helped to develop their skills in sports and in community life.

When Wally was elected in 1966, it was no surprise to the communities that he represented because he was so well known in the area. We talk about his love for music as well, and the bass guitar or the bass violin that he used to take with him wherever he went it seemed. He told me later–he said: You do not know how many votes this bass violin was able to get for me through the election campaigns. Because he would even take it with him during the campaign and in the evenings he would pull it out and get together with some folks and strike up a tune or two. It just got people together. Christmastime or times of holidays, Wally would often find himself in the midst of some senior citizens with his bass violin, singing and playing this bass violin. When I became the MLA for the area, one of the first questions that was thrown at me when I came to visit some seniors was, well, what instrument do you play? Wally played the bass violin, so what instrument do you play? As it happens, I do play a guitar and I do sing a little, so I have done that a few times at some of the senior citizens homes.

But indeed many of our people in our community are going to remember Wally for a long time because of the tremendous contributions that he made to his constituents. Wally was continually advocating for his constituents. I remember times when people would talk about the fact that Wally would try so desperately to do something for a constituent and, if he was not able to do it through the legislative process or through lobbying ministers, Wally would try to help the family, if they were in financial difficulty or if they were experiencing some difficulties in a personal way. Christmastime would often find Wally delivering hampers to families that did not have as much as perhaps he did. He wanted to make sure that they enjoyed their Christmas season as well, a very generous man, generous to his family, generous to his community.

Indeed today I want to simply express our condolences and appreciation to his family, to his daughters and his son, for a life that was lived in dedication to a community, dedication to the province and indeed to the country. I know that his family are very proud of the contributions that Wally made to this province and to his community. Indeed all of us will remember Wally for many years very fondly for his contribution here in Manitoba. Thank you.

Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Highways and Government Services): Mr. Speaker, I also want to put a few words on the record in terms of my recollections of Wally McKenzie. It is interesting, because until today I did not know that Wally McKenzie had any other name than Wally.

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I sort of recall listening to some of the comments that have been made that he was really larger than life to begin with anyway. I think anybody who sat in this House will remember his many contributions in debate that have been alluded to. Reference has been made already to what I tried to use as a precedent as House Leader on a couple of occasions. I used to call it the Wally McKenzie dead-pigeon precedent, but it did not work.

What I think the Premier (Mr. Doer) sort of pointed to too is that when he did it, the way he did it. I still remember him reaching into his desk, and of course you do not know if somebody is going to pull out a note or something, and out came this dead pigeon. Being a Monty Python fan, I kept waiting for a few comments from Wally, and he could have probably delivered it very well, sort of, this pigeon is dead. He had such a flourish. The funny part was I still remember the grin on his face when he did it, because the whole House erupted. The Government House Leader was standing up on a point of order, and he was just smiling.

He had made his point, and it will go down without precedent in Manitoba parliamentary history. In fact, he tabled it. That is the other thing that should be pointed out. He tabled the dead pigeon. I suppose that raises the question, because I assume when documents or items are tabled that we keep them somewhere in the Legislature, I am not sure where that pigeon is right now. Maybe it has been stuffed. I am wondering if Binx Remnant, upon retirement here, is actually going to take that as a souvenir from his time here.

But you know, that was very much the style of the times. I think it is hard for new members to sort of recognize probably the style of legislative proceedings we had in those days. The former Premier alluded to the fact that we had three evening sittings. We are right at the tail end of an era when I, as a new member, getting elected did not realize the seasonal nature of being an MLA in those days. We had no travel allowance out of session. It was assumed that we would sit. Usually we would sit until we dropped, you know, speed-up and then we would go back to our communities and then return for a sitting. That did create an entirely different atmosphere in this Legislature.

It is funny. I pushed in our caucus and I know as Opposition House Leader for 10 years, every chance I could get I wanted to reduce those evening sittings but, you know, with that sanity that came with fewer evening sittings, we lost the sort of social atmosphere of this Chamber. I think that it really was an important part of the life of many people, especially from rural and northern Manitoba.

What I also am struck by too, by the way, as I look back on that period when I think of Wally's participation in the House is that it was a pretty controversial period. You know, we had the French language issue, the bells rang for a period of time. I remember, as a new government member, the Government House Leader having the brilliant idea of coming in December, and this was somehow going to result in the session being speeded up somewhat. We sat in December of 1982, and we were still sitting in 1984, but you know what was interesting despite the heat of the debate that took place at the time on that issue, I still recall the fact that at every session end, there was a tradition of members visiting each other's caucuses, any of the heat of debate was put aside.

I still remember going to the Conservative caucus, along with many colleagues and joining the musical singsongs. I can still sort of picture the many players in the orchestra, Arnold Brown and Wally McKenzie being leaders in the band, and the member for Lakeside (Mr. Enns) was a strong participant as well. I remember members of the press gallery there. What I am struck on, as I hear the comments today, is in many ways I think it came from a generation that went through the war, knew all too well the sacrifices of war and perhaps taught those of us of a younger generation about the joy of life. When I think of Wally McKenzie, it is probably something I did not see in his larger-than-life approach to politics. It was probably very much a part of his experience, so I remember him fondly.

I will remember far more than just that one particular incident. I remember his participation in the debates but also the fact that he, as strong as he would get in debates–and believe you me, he, like most members at the time, particularly rural and northern members, I think it was a real tradition and still is in some ways, a strong representation of constituency–I do not remember him saying an unkind word about anyone after the debate was over. I think in a way that summed up his careers, a variety of areas of public service, a very important part of this Legislature. I know he will be missed by everyone that knew him.

Mr. Harry Enns (Lakeside): I counted among the privileges of my life to have come into this Chamber at the same time as one James Wallace McKenzie on June of '66, and I too want to add my few words of condolences and appreciation for the life of Wally McKenzie.

I agree with everything that has been said with one small correction, Mr. Leader. It was the St. Regis Hotel and not the St. Charles. Indeed Wally, it could be said, was a charter member of the St. Regis Racing and Chowder Club that met on occasion Friday afternoons. We were not sitting and some very important caucus decisions were arrived at on those occasions, but I and the Minister of Highways alluded to it just briefly. It was a different era and one has to appreciate it. We have much more generously looked to the needs of MLAs today than we had then. We had no members' allowances, we had no constituency offices. We were 22, 23, 21 members in opposition with the services of one receptionist-secretary and everything.

What I remember most about Wally McKenzie was no matter how serious the enjoyment of the evening last was, he was at the desk in the caucus room writing out long letters to his constituents. He was a model for looking after his constituents. There was not a request from a constituent that he did not personally respond to. As I say, this was prior to the days that we had the resources that we today have. It was also known in his constituency that anybody from the Russell area or the English area that needed a ride home just had to be at the St. Regis at around four o'clock or three o'clock on a Friday afternoon, and he would get a ride home. I do not think that Wally drove home very often without taking a constituent with him.

Looking at my friend from La Verendrye, you are right, Mr. Premier (Mr. Doer), Graham and McKenzie, they formed a pretty formidable defence unit on our hockey team that we had fun with. It was an all-party team, by the way. We took on the city fathers, Steve Juba in the net, and Steve Patrick of the Liberal Party was our coach. You can imagine Warner Jorgensen and Sid Green on the same forward line. It was exciting. But Harry Graham and Wally Mackenzie made a formidable duo on the defence for the members of the Legislative Assembly hockey team.

Well, Mr. Speaker, to the family that I know well, the memory of Wally McKenzie is very strong with me. He was a personal friend of mine. It was the Premier's call, as it always is, that takes one person into cabinet and leaves somebody else not in cabinet. It was my good fortune to be brought into the Duff Roblin cabinet immediately after that election, but I can honestly say and I think if Mr. McKenzie were with us today he would say that that never interfered with the enjoyment that we both had in serving our respective constituencies and in serving the people of Manitoba to the best of our ability.

One other thing I might say, Mr. McKenzie had, obviously with that record of 20 years of public service, a keen nose for things that were happening. I can recall him being the only one perhaps as we were moving toward the '69 election who held up the warning bells. We were focused on the Liberal Party and their newly elected Leader who were the Official Opposition at that time with some 14 members, but Wally would remind us, watch the New Democrats, they are coming, and come they did in '69 to form the government.

But those are some memories that I have of my dear friend Wally McKenzie. God bless him and our thoughts are with the family. Thank you.

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Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin-Roblin): It is my pleasure to rise today to put a few comments on the record in honour of Mr. Wally McKenzie. A friend of mine who taught school with me always said that the measuring stick that he used to judge a success was what his students said about him down the road. Would they have kind things to say about his performance as a teacher, or would they have bad memories?

Well, I took that same theory and applied it to conversations that I have had with some of my new constituents in the Roblin-San Clara-Boggy Creek area and had opportunities recently to speak with them about Mr. Wally McKenzie. Mr. Speaker, Mr. McKenzie passes with flying colours the test when it comes to having served his constituents. I heard nothing but positive comments from his former constituents whom he represented for nearly 20 years in this Legislature.

One of the comments that was repeated over and over was that Wally knew everyone. There was not a time in a person's life when Mr. McKenzie would not have sent a note or a card, whether it was a happy note on a wedding or a sadder note at the time of a funeral in the family. Wally McKenzie was always there for his constituents.

His former constituents whom I now have the pleasure of representing told me that I could use Wally McKenzie as a role model in the way to treat constituents. They would go on to say that any of us in this Legislature today could use Mr. McKenzie as a perfectly good role model in how to serve your riding and how to serve the people whom your represent. They note that Wally had that personal touch that everybody enjoyed so much.

I would put forth, Mr. Speaker, that whether it was when Wally McKenzie was a trustee for the Inglis school district or whether it was when he was a town councillor or a director for the Manitoba Chamber of Commerce or whether it was when he was president of the North-Central Hockey League, as was mentioned earlier, or whether it was his membership in the Russell and Inglis legion, Mr. McKenzie operated in the same personal manner as he did when he was an MLA for which he gained so many high marks.

Mr. Speaker, the last time that I had the opportunity to talk with Mr. McKenzie was in August of 1998 at the Roblin parade. The member for Swan River and myself participated in that parade. As we were talking to people I heard somebody yell, called us over, and there was Wally McKenzie sitting on the back of a flatbed truck. What I noticed first of all was the big smile on his face but also he had on his lap a fiddle and an accordion. He was laughing and saying that he–I think he was kind of goading us to try to guess which of the instruments he was going to play during the parade. You could just tell that he was having a lot of fun. He was still interacting with his constituents and he was providing everybody who cared to come and visit with Wally with a little bit of brightness and some good cheer that afternoon. I did note that as they took off in front of us in the parade that it was the fiddle that he pulled out and was playing and participating in and just having a good time.

I want to, on behalf of the constituents of the Roblin area, express our condolences to the family and also to say thank you to Wally for representing the people of the Roblin area so capably for all those years here in the Legislature. I want to thank his wife and his family for standing with Wally and being able to represent so well the people of the Parklands but also Manitobans. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, I would like to add the condolences on behalf of not only myself and my family but on behalf of the constituents of Ste. Rose. I only knew Wally briefly during his tenure in the House, but I have to say that one of the things that he implemented was unique and interesting. He was one of the few individuals who was elected as an MLA who used to put an ad in the paper advertising his phone number and encouraging people to call him if they had a concern. I must admit that there were quite a few MLAs, including myself, who have since picked up that small but I think significant demonstration of the dedication that Wally felt towards representing the people of his constituency.

I wish to share my condolences and thank his family for the many years of public service that he put in.

Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I just rise briefly, representing the people of River Heights and the people of the Liberal Party, to extend my condolences. Wally McKenzie was not an individual who I knew personally but clearly he has a very considerable record as a politician and a contribution to his constituency. I extend condolences on behalf of the people of my constituency and the Liberal Party.

Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt this motion?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Mr. Speaker: Will honourable members please rise and remain standing to indicate their support for the motion.

Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): I move, seconded by the member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard),

THAT this House convey to the family of the late Robert W. Bend, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty and a useful life of active community and public service and that the Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family.

Mr. Doer: Robert William "Bobby" Bend was an individual who had a long political career, a longer educational career and a lifelong interest and dedication to sports. I, of course, want to start with his political contributions to Manitoba and this Legislature. He was elected in 1949 to this Legislature and, as I understand it, he originally rejected the idea of running for political life when he was recruited. Then he went back to his classroom and spoke of the virtues of public service and realized what a contradiction this was for him to be rejecting the request to serve or run in the 1949 election. He subsequently ran and was successful in 1949 as a member of the Progressive Coalition, I guess, at that time. I am not exactly sure of the title, but I think the Progressive Coalition, and then he ran again and was successful in 1953 as an Independent Liberal Progressive and ran again in 1958 and was defeated in May of 1959.

He was a member of the cabinet having served as the Minister of Health and Public Works, and he also served as a member of the Executive Council in the position of Minister of Education. Many people in Manitoba will know him as the Leader of the Liberal Party. He was selected as Leader by his party in 1969. It is certainly something I can recall when I was in school following politics in Manitoba. I was just shortly leaving school at that point, but he was elected in 1969. He ran against, as I understand it, the present member for Lakeside (Mr. Enns) in that election in 1969 and was unsuccessful as the Leader of the Liberal Party, but certainly it indicates a very, very successful political career when your own colleagues and your own peers select you to be the Leader, to carry the platform forward to the people of Manitoba and the policies forward as he did in the 1969 election campaign.

So there is no question that he had a successful political career in this Legislature, a career that spanned 10 years and included Executive Council positions. As the honourable Leader of the Opposition has pointed out before, a limited number of some 500 people have had that honour over the history of Manitoba, and so he was obviously an individual that had the respect of his Leader to carry on the duties and responsibilities in his elected political career.

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Mr. Bend or Bobby was and still is well known as an educator. He was an educator. He is well known as an educator. He taught for 24 years. He was a principal of many schools: East Poplar Point, I think it is East Poplar Point, Tilston Consolidated High School, Teulon, Stonewall, Sisler, West Kildonan and Victory School, and he was honoured with the Ed Brown memorial award for his contributions to education in Manitoba.

In 1981, in recognition of his contributions to education, Bobby Bend was awarded the honour of having the Stonewall East School renamed to the R.W. Bobby Bend Elementary School in that community.

Mr. Speaker, he was also very, very involved in sports. Bobby was interested in hockey. He, along with Bryan Hextall, went on to National Hockey League fame. Bryan Hextall, who went on to the National Hockey League fame, played in his hometown of Popular Point, and they won the national championship. Bobby played for the Portage Terriers, the Winnipeg Monarch Junior Hockey team and went on to help the senior Winnipeg Falcons win the Manitoba championship in '35 and '36 and the Canadian Packers championship in '36-37. Bobby was scouted by the Red Wings and he moved up to the minor professional ranks. However, on the advice of his mother, who told him unless he could make the NHL, he should get an education instead. He opted to remain an amateur and his younger brother, Lin, went on to become an NHL star.

He played a lot of baseball. I have certainly heard of his baseball reputation in Manitoba. He was one of the province's outstanding teachers of baseball. Apparently, he was at home umpiring a baseball game as he was occupying a front-row seat in the Legislature. His contributions to baseball in Manitoba were formerly recognized when he was inducted into the Manitoba Baseball Hall of Fame.

Bobby Bend was a person that had made many memorable comments over his political career, but he always remembered where he came from–his community, his profession of education, his love of sports. One quote that I found interesting for the record when he was the Minister of Health, he said: Being a cabinet minister and teaching are something in the same; in both positions, you are performing a public service and there is an inner satisfaction in that.

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of our party, I would like to wish his wife, Kay, their sons, Jack, Jim and Robert, and their five grandchildren, our sincerest condolences. I would also like to thank, on behalf of our party, Bobby Bend for his contributions to this Legislature, for his contributions to the Executive Council offices he held, for his contributions to the Liberal Party where he was leader, for his contributions to education and for his contributions to sports and the quality of life in Manitoba.

Mr. Gary Filmon (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise along with the Premier (Mr. Doer), on behalf of my colleagues, to pay tribute to Bobby Bend. Although his legal name is Robert William Bend, he was known, I think, to everyone as Bobby Bend.

I must say that I was very much aware of who he was as a person growing up in the '40s and '50s in Winnipeg. He, by the late '50s, of course, had sat for almost 10 years in this Legislature with the tremendous honour of serving in cabinet as Minister of Health and Welfare and Minister of Education. Lo and behold, when Sisler High School opened in the fall of 1958–sorry, it opened in the fall of '57, but when I got into Grade 11 in the fall of '58, Bobby Bend had just lost his cabinet seat because of the provincial election of that year. In those days, as has been referred to in the previous discussion, being a member of the Legislature was not a full-time occupation. So Bobby Bend came to Sisler High School as the Grade 11 physics teacher, and he was my physics teacher in Grade 11.

We were all enthralled by Bobby Bend. He had this raspy voice and this great ability to speak with great knowledge on a whole variety of issues. Although we were supposed to be learning physics, it seemed to me that we learned a lot more about politics and public service than we did about physics. We learned a lot from Bobby Bend. He was an absolutely fascinating teacher, the kind that you dream about having.

A lot of things are coming together for me here now as I read about Bobby in the obituary and the biographical notes. I did not realize that he was first elected as a Progressive Conservative. That probably speaks to the fact that I identified with his politics in those days, even though he was technically a Liberal. It also refers here to various things about him being a baseball umpire. I wondered about that strong, raspy voice that he had, and I guess that was part of it for calling people out on balls and strikes and all of those things.

He was a wonderful individual, even though, as I say, he seemed to exercise some influence on the choice of speakers to our graduating class. We had as the person who spoke to our graduation that year Ron Turner, who was the former Minister of Finance in the Campbell government. We had Graeme Garson speak to our graduating class, who at that time was I believe the executive director of the Liberal Party in Manitoba.

Bobby probably had some influence on those choices, but they were good speakers. They were very, very significant people in that era. I will say that Bobby Bend continued to have a strong presence in that Teulon-Rockwood-Stonewall area throughout the period that I have been involved in public life. Whenever I would be in that area, I often saw Bobby at public events. I remember him being at a summer fair in Teulon, coffee and conversations that we used to hold as caucus or cabinet in the area, and he was at, I am almost certain, the 25th anniversary celebration of the member for Lakeside. Every time that we met I was always very happy to see Bobby, and I think he was happy to see me.

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In fact, a year ago last spring, we had the grand opening of the expansion to the elementary R.W. Bobby Bend School in Stonewall. I specifically asked the Minister of Education if I could go with her to be part of the program because I had hoped to see Bobby there and to suitably pay tribute to him for all of his contributions to public life, not only in this Legislature but in education, where he not only taught for 24 years, but he was a principal. He was ultimately a superintendent and, of course, served as Minister of Education in this House.

I think that all of this is to say that Bobby Bend was another one of those very significant people in the history of this Legislature and the history of this province. His influence was all-pervasive in so many areas of public life, in sports, as not only an athlete himself but a coach and an official who contributed well beyond the perfunctory aspect of just playing the sport. He was very much an influence in all aspects, which is why he was inducted to the Manitoba Baseball Hall of Fame, because of his many, many contributions in the field of sport.

It has been said earlier that he was given the Ed Brown memorial award for his lifelong contributions to education in our province. He certainly remained active in his church in the community, the Anglican Church. He was always a person interested in the community. I believe that he used to write for the community newspaper in his retirement years. That was one of the reasons why he showed up on a number of occasions at things that the government was doing in the area. So this was a person of tremendous substance, a person of tremendous talent and ability who contributed in so many ways to our community and our province's history.

So it is a privilege to be able to speak in this Legislature about the life and service of Bobby Bend. It is a privilege for me to express condolences and to celebrate a life of devotion to the community and to the province, and to be able to express all of this to his widow, Kay, to his sons, Jack, Jim and Rob. Rob is with us in the gallery. He is the principal of Crocus Plains Regional School in Brandon and is part of the legacy of Bobby Bend in education and somebody who has contributed mightily to education in our province himself.

So I offer those words as words of praise and celebration for one who has served in so many ways in the best traditions of our province.

Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I rise to join my colleagues, the Premier (Mr. Doer) and the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Filmon), in a salute to Bobby Bend who was the Leader of the Liberal Party in 1969, a salute to a man who made major contributions in numerous areas to the life and the well-being of Manitoba.

As an athlete, hockey player, a baseball player, and as an umpire, Bobby Bend is remembered fondly by many. His contributions to Manitoba were recognized in this area when he was inducted into the Manitoba Baseball Hall of Fame in 1996.

As a teacher, Bobby Bend taught school in various parts of Manitoba, being in turn a teacher, a principal, superintendent, a special assistant to the Deputy Minister of Education, and from June 9 to June 30 in 1958, the Minister of Education. These contributions and his special ability to talk to and relate to young people, to recognize the importance of discipline but the importance of inspiration, whether it be in physics or in other areas. These contributions to education were recognized with the Ed Brown memorial award and, of course, by the naming of the school in Stonewall as the Bobby Bend School.

In politics, Bobby Bend was first elected in 1949 for Rockwood, re-elected in 1953 and 1958 for the Liberal Party in Rockwood-Iberville. He served as Minister of Health during a rather important time for health care in Manitoba from 1955 to '58. It was a period when the polio vaccine was just becoming widely available, and there was a real transformation from the world before where polio was only treatable with the iron lung to the point where polio was preventable with a vaccine.

I think it is fitting that Bobby Bend was Minister of Health at that time, given the importance of investing in prevention in health care, as opposed to just trying to treat the very, very difficult disorders because clearly when one can invest in prevention with the vaccine, one has a tremendous potential not only to save lives and to decrease sickness but to decrease costs, so a period as Health minister at a very, very important time for Manitoba and making a significant contribution during this period.

Following his defeat in 1969, Bobby Bend continued to have a very active interest in politics. I remember as I was campaigning in 1993 to be a member of Parliament in Portage-Interlake, I visited Bobby Bend. We had a long chat then and chatted on a number of occasions since then, keeping in contact with somebody who was a very important public figure for many, many years in Manitoba.

So on behalf of my party, the Liberal Party, the constituents in River Heights, I want to say condolences but also a tremendous recognition of the life and the contribution that Bobby Bend has made to Manitoba, to the family, to friends. What a contribution Bobby Bend made. We are thankful for that. Thank you.

Mr. Harry Enns (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, I have two special reasons for wishing to be associated with this condolence motion. It was my privilege, as I indicated just a few moments ago, to be first elected from the constituency of Rockwood-Iberville, the same constituency that Mr. Bend served for those 10 years. Then in '69, Rockwood-Iberville merged with the Lakeside constituency, then held by the former leader and long-time Premier, the longest-serving MLA in the commonwealth history, Mr. D.L. Campbell, of course, the Premier that Mr. Bend had served under in cabinet in both health and in education.

I was still very much a rookie MLA watching with some fascination as the politics of this played out within the Liberal Party as to who would be running in Lakeside, Mr. Campbell or the then newly elected leader, Mr. Bend. It is a question that I often ask myself. Would I have been here today if Mr. Campbell had not chosen to at that point in time to step down, not to say that in any derogatory way of Mr. Bend, but Mr. Campbell was and continues to be a legend in this Chamber here.

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Mr. Bend succeeded to the leadership of the Liberal Party and very shortly thereafter we engaged in a general election in which, I confess, was the most tightly contested election that I faced in my political career. It was an honourable race. I recall very well on the evening of the election Mr. Bend, doing me the courtesy and the honour of calling me at my campaign headquarters and indicating his acceptance of the will of the electors of Lakeside, and that is how I have these two associations with Mr. Bend in a very real and a very political sense both as a former representative of Rockwood-Iberville and in the '69 election where we squared off against each other.

I think it speaks volumes for Mr. Bend and his reputation and his contribution that right to his last days his constituents, his people in Stonewall who particularly held him in such high regard, does not always follow that particularly after the hurly-burly of politics that one has remembered in such a way. Mr. Bend certainly enjoyed that reputation. I enjoyed running into him and meeting him at different occasions, sometimes just at the coffee shop in Stonewall where we would sometimes meet at the kind of regular coffee break that he in his senior years would enjoy with other residents in the Stonewall area.

Others have mentioned about his many, many facets of his active life in sports and in teaching and in politics. I got the impression in speaking to him that his tenure as Health minister–I am not taking anything away from his province-wide reputation as an educator, but he really felt his contribution in the Health portfolio was one that was extremely important to him. The Leader of the Liberal Party alluded to it. These were momentous changes taking place. These were days prior to the universal medicare system that we now all enjoy, where I know families–and I know of individual families who faced the kinds of hardships that in pre medicare and pre health care days families were subjected to–would and did prevail on him personally as the minister, or as the MLA for the area, to receive the kind of support when in many instances funds or resources were not available to that particular family. I run into those kinds of families who remember Mr. Bend for that reason, for the help that he provided to a member of their family, for advice that he gave to a family in need.

For these reasons, the Bend name will long resonate in the constituency of Lakeside. I consider it a privilege and honour to be the current MLA for Lakeside and to have had people like Mr. Bend run against me, be part of that part of the province to represent the people of Rockwood and Rosser and Stonewall and Teulon in this association. It is something that I constantly am aware of myself as I try to conduct myself in a similar fashion to live up to the kind of representation that the people of Rockwood-Iberville, of Lakeside, have had the privilege of receiving from their past MLAs. My condolences to the family. God bless.

Mr. Harry Schellenberg (Rossmere): Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to express condolences for Robert W. Bend who is better known as Bobby Bend, who was once an MLA and a cabinet minister in this Chamber. I feel honoured to be given this opportunity to speak here today. I personally learned about Bobby Bend as a guest speaker at sports and education events, but before I say much more about Bobby Bend, I would like to say a few words about his family. Some of the information about his family was given to me by his niece, Bobbie Janaway, in a recent interview, and I thank her for this.

I also had the opportunity to speak to his son, Bobby Bend, Jr., I might say, who gave me some information about his father. As already pointed out, his son is in the gallery here today. The Bend family originally lived in Poplar Point which is a small town, about 300 people, near Portage la Prairie. Poplar Point is a sports-minded town that produced NHL hockey players such as Hextalls and the Bends. Bobby Bend himself came from a very sports-minded family. His father, J.P. Bend, instilled sports in all three of his children. Bobby Bend had a sister Olive who played fastball or baseball for a team named the Rockford Peaches in the all-American girls' baseball league. Olive was the pitcher as the Rockford Peaches won the world championship in 1945. Olive Bend, whose married name is Olive Little, is inducted into the Manitoba Sports Hall of Fame and also inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, U.S.A.

Bobby Bend also had a brother, Lin Bend, who played in the NHL for the New York Rangers and had a great hockey career. Bobby Bend himself was very sports-minded. He took great interest in all sports. Baseball and hockey were probably his greatest interests. He is known as an excellent hockey player and as an umpire across Manitoba. I am told that as an umpire, he had complete control of the game. Any ballplayer as much as gave him a dirty look would probably find himself watching the game from the stands. As a result of his great interest in baseball, he has been inducted into the Manitoba Baseball Hall of Fame, which is located in Morden, Manitoba. His induction into the Manitoba Baseball Hall of Fame recognizes his great contribution to the game of baseball.

The Bend family has made a great contribution to sports in Manitoba. Bobby Bend believed the lessons learned in sports could be used in everyday life.

Education is another area where Bobby Bend made a great contribution. I would like to say a few words about this. As has already been pointed out, Bobby was a teacher, principal, superintendent and Education minister.

I first heard him speak at a teachers convention in Carman in the early 1960s where he was the after-dinner speaker. I was a young teacher at the time, like many other teachers present, and we were all inspired by his speech. We all sat at the edge of our chairs taking in every word. You could have heard a pin drop in that room. He had our full attention.

Although I have heard this speech more than 35 years ago, I remember it very well. We were all touched by the speech, because he had certainly challenged us to continue our work as young teachers in the classroom.

I am speaking in this Chamber today as a result of that speech many years ago. The thesis of that speech was that a teacher was more than an instructor, but a mentor, a counsellor, an adviser to students.

At the end of his speech he told us, if you do not like teaching, get out, it will be better for everyone. I remember that very clearly. Bobby Bend was very pragmatic. He strongly believed in discipline in the schools. He felt it was very important. I could give you some examples of that, but I will leave it. Although he is known as a disciplinarian, he was fair and firm. Another one of his strengths was that he could communicate and develop rapport with students, teachers, parents and the whole community.

He was a very people-centred person and he was well received in all communities he served. I also heard him speak at the Morden Collegiate in the fall of '69, as he was superintendent there at the time. I had just finished teaching two years in Morden Collegiate, and I went back for the graduation exercises. Again, Bobby Bend was at his best and again made a speech that held our full attention. He often made reference to the values and teaching of the Bible. He challenged us to reflect on these teachings. I thought he was a minister. I was informed he was not a minister, but a religious person who was very well involved, very much involved in the Anglican Church.

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The Bend family home is in Stonewall, where his wife, Kay Bend, still lives. Bobby had three sons. His oldest son Jack Bend is a scientist at the London hospital in Ontario. Jim Bend is a businessman in Calgary, and the youngest son, Bobby Bend Jr., is a school principal in Brandon. Bobby Bend Jr. has told me personally it was his father's influence that persuaded him to go into education.

The late Bobby Bend instilled strong values in all three of his sons that he lived and practised all his life. All his sons have a great interest in sports and education. Bobby Bend was very much appreciated as an educator and for his involvement in the community, but at the same time he did not forget his family. If you drive through Stonewall today, where the Bend family has always lived, you will see a school named in his honour for the contribution to education and his work in the community. The school named in his honour is a memorial to the late Bobby Bend, who served the people of his community very well. Thank you.

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Mr. Speaker, I would like to rise as well to add my comments with respect to one Bobby Bend. I will confine my comments more to the point of the personal life of Mr. Bend and leave the comments that others have added in this Chamber with respect to his career as the MLA representing the constituency of Rockwood.

Last week, Mr. Speaker, I had the opportunity to attend College Pierre-Elliott-Trudeau in my community. After the assembly there, I had the opportunity once again to speak to our longest serving Transcona-Springfield school trustee, Mrs. Mary Andree.

Now, one of the benefits of long public service is the opportunity and the ability to recall events and involvements with other community leaders and colleagues. I knew that since the Manitoba Legislature would be honouring the life work in public service and the person of Mr. Bobby Bend, I thought it would be appropriate to ask Mrs. Andree to recollect her time with Mr. Bend. I asked Mrs. Andree if she could recall some of the endearing characteristics of Mr. Bend. She was happy to share many thoughts of her time, since Mr. Bend had been at one time an employee of the Transcona-Springfield School Division.

In fact, I believe Bobby Bend was the first superintendent after the restructuring of the school divisions. When our school division moved, I think it was from the larger school division No. 39 and had then moved to division No. 12, which was somewhat smaller. Mr. Bend became the first superintendent of our school division after that restructuring. This was after, of course, Bobby had finished his first stint in provincial politics, which many members of this House have already described and talked about here today. I believe, in talking with Mrs. Andree, she indicated that Bobby's first love was in education. At that time he had applied for and was hired as our superintendent.

Mrs. Andree also recalls that Bobby was a very fair person but, at the same time, he could be a very determined individual once he had made up his mind.

In speaking to Bobby's determined manner, I do note, Mr. Speaker, that members of this House have talked about Bobby's athletic abilities and his involvement with various sporting activities in our province. I do note that Bobby had, I believe, three years ago been inducted into the Manitoba Baseball Hall of Fame. As my colleague the member for Rossmere (Mr. Schellenberg) has already indicated, Bobby was also a baseball umpire and was apparently a good athlete in his day.

Of course, Mrs. Andree indicates and relates to me that during the course of a ball game, Bobby would make many calls as the umpire, perhaps not all of them to the liking of the affected players that were involved. If Bobby were to indicate during the course of umpiring a game that a particular pitch was a ball or a strike and not a strike, and if the catcher or the pitcher would object to that particular call, Bobby would stop. He would stand and he would look at the individual and stare at them right in their eye, Mr. Speaker, looking at them eye to eye and ask them exactly what it was that they were going to do about the call. Of course, players soon realized the futility of the challenge. Once Bobby had made up his mind, he was not about to reconsider his decision just because someone did not like his call.

Now, Mrs. Andree also indicates and reflects back to the time when the Andres [phonetic] had a store in the community of Transcona. Of course, Bobby liked to smoke cigars, and he would come into the Andree store in Transcona to make his purchases. Apparently, Bobby's favourite brand of cigar was White Owls. Bobby, not to be dissuaded, after he made his purchase would frequently light up his new cigar in the Andree store, of course causing a big cloud of smoke inside the store, much to Mrs. Andree's chagrin. Bobby apparently thought White Owls were the best cigars and, of course, he wanted to demonstrate to Mrs. Andree how good those cigars were.

Bobby used to drive an old beater car back and forth between his workplace and his home. I know in those days our school division offices were located in the Transcona Collegiate, where Bobby and Mrs. Andree, who was a trustee at that time, would frequently encounter each other. Mrs. Andree would ask Bobby, why do you drive such an old car when you have so far to travel in all kinds of weather? It seemed to be apparently clear that Mr. Bend perhaps could afford a newer vintage of automobile to drive back and forth to work, but Bobby, being the astute person that he was, he would reply to Mrs. Andree: You know, Mrs. Andree, if I were to purchase a new car, then the teachers and the other trustees and the school taxpayers, what would they think? Would they think that the school division was perhaps paying him too much, and he was determined to avoid the controversy of having to drive that new car back and forth.

It was not long before Bobby once again had the urge to answer the call of public service, and he ran for the Leader of the Liberal Party, as members of this House have indicated here today, but instead of taking a leave of absence from his job as the division superintendent, Bobby, I believe, quit his job to become the Leader of the Liberal Party. Now, I am told that some time later, perhaps for the first time in his life, he came perhaps to reconsider that decision as it was a short time later that he left public office for the last time and re-entered the field of education where he ended his working career.

Now, Mrs. Andree tells me that one of the strengths that Bobby had was his ability to encourage and inspire people whom he would work with on a daily basis. I am told that it was very common for Bobby to encourage the teachers, especially the new, young teachers that he was working with, and he would praise them for their work. To this end, the teachers responded by going the extra mile for the students and for the superintendent they liked and respected.

On behalf of the families in the community of Transcona who benefited from Bobby's knowledge, his expertise and his leadership in the field of education, I extend to his wife, Kay, and to the family our sincere condolences at the loss of your husband, father and grandfather. We thank you for sharing Bobby with our community and for his interest in improving the quality of education for our young people, Bobby's continuing legacy to this province. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): Mr. Speaker, it is with fond memory and great respect that I would like to offer my condolences to the family and friends of the late Robert Bend, or Bobby, as he was known to many of us here. It is my pleasure to share some of Bobby Bend's legacy with the members of this House, as he was very familiar to most of you.

As was previously mentioned, Bobby was first elected in 1949 to the Manitoba Legislature. During his term, he served as Minister of Education and Minister of Health and Public Welfare in the Douglas Campbell government. He also ran for Leader of the Liberal Party in 1969. In fact, I was at that leadership convention. It was an exciting time, and Bobby was elected Leader of the Liberal Party.

But I would venture to say that above all else, Mr. Bend was first an educator. He always returned to education following his days in public office. He taught in several schools in the province, as well as serving as a principal for a number of years. I am most familiar with him from his days as superintendent of the Interlake School Division. Mr. Bend's contribution to education in the Interlake area was so great that a school in Stonewall now bears his name.

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I can still remember Bobby Bend from my school days. In fact, he was a judge at a public speaking contest that I was taking part in. Although I did not win, I can still remember Bobby Bend had kind, constructive words for each one of the participants. I can still remember the eloquence of his words and the fairness of his comments.

Mr. Speaker, one cannot talk about Bobby Bend without reflecting on the great contribution that he made to his community and his commitment to the betterment of the whole Interlake area, especially through his participation in baseball as a player and also as an umpire. In honour of his years that he spent playing and officiating baseball, he was inducted into the Manitoba Baseball Hall of Fame about three years ago. Bobby had a strong appreciation for the importance of recreation and sport in one's life, and he was committed to ensuring that recreational facilities and activities were available for his community. Indeed, throughout my years in public life, I became a very good friend of Bobby, and he became one of my constituents in 1990 when the Gimli constituency boundaries changed to include the Stonewall area.

Mr. Speaker, I was constantly impressed by the conviction with which he worked. He had strong principles that he would not compromise, and he was a man of integrity who will always hold a very special place in my memory, so I am pleased to pay tribute to the impact that he had on my life and the lives of many here.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to extend my personal sympathies and respect to the relatives of Bobby Bend, in particular his wife Kay and his children. They should certainly all be very proud of the life that he lived and the great contribution that he made to Manitoba. Thank you.

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, on a matter of House business, is there leave of the House to waive private members' hour? [agreed]

Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to express my sympathy and offer my condolences to the family of Bobby Bend. I did not know Bobby all that well other than through sort of being third party to some telephone conversations back in the late 1960s. A teenager at the time, my thoughts were on other things than politics, but my father and my mother both knew Bobby and had a tremendous amount of respect for him.

As our main family phone was in the kitchen and the family spent most of our time there, I was able to hear one side of many conversations that started by trying to convince Mr. Bend, Bobby, that he should let his name stand for the leadership of the Liberal Party in Manitoba and also many other conversations with other members of the Liberal Party in Manitoba as my father extolled the virtues of Mr. Bend and worked very hard and very diligently on his campaign to be chosen as Leader of the Liberal Party at that time.

I would just like to put on the record that it never ceased to amaze me how many good things were both said and confirmed during those telephone conversations of which I was just privy to one end of the conversation, but certainly my parents had the greatest respect and continued to have the greatest respect for Bobby Bend, in particular in his efforts in the field of education in which my father was very much involved.

Certainly there is a tremendous amount of respect for the work that Mr. Bend did in the education system in my family, and I just wanted to make those comments on the record and offer my condolences to them. Thank you.

Mr. David Faurschou (Portage la Prairie): Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to place upon the record a few brief comments in regard to a gentleman who has my respect and the respect of many constituents whom I represent. Poplar Point is now part of the constituency of Portage la Prairie, and there are many in that community who still know and remember with fondness Bobby Bend.

My only personal acquaintance with Mr. Bobby Bend was that of his attendance to my elementary school in the election of 1969, where Mr. Bobby Bend presented an inspirational address on teamwork. He extolled the virtues of hard work and perseverance. Mr. Bend made a tremendous impression upon myself, so much so that I went home that evening sporting a lapel button of prominent red and Bobby Bend's name upon that button, much to the chagrin of my father and grandfather who were very much supporters of the Progressive Conservative candidate of 1996 and now my colleague Mr. Harry Enns. But that just goes to show you how inspirational and how much effect that Mr. Bobby Bend can have upon a person in a very short time frame.

I would like to extend at this time my sympathy on behalf of the residents of Portage la Prairie and Poplar Point and extend, too, how much respect that we still have in our fond memories of Mr. Bobby Bend. Thank you.

Mrs. Joy Smith (Fort Garry): Mr. Speaker, I would like to personally put on record and extend my personal condolences to the family of Bobby Bend. I did not know Bobby personally, but I did know his family and worked with his son, Robbie Bend, for some time. One thing that stood out in my mind was a tremendous respect and vision that Bobby Bend had for this province, and even through his family I heard on many occasions of the kind of respect that his own family had and the kind of vision he gave his own family for this province and, in particular, in the area of education.

So I would like to personally extend my condolences to the family, because it is great Canadians like this who make a difference.

Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt this motion?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Mr. Speaker: Would honourable members please rise and remain standing to indicate their support for the motion.

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Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Yes, Mr. Speaker, on a matter of House business, I would like to rescind the previous change to the Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs.

I move, seconded by the member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs be amended as follows: St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau) for Southdale (Mr. Reimer).

Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the member for Wellington (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs be amended as follows: Transcona (Mr. Reid) for Inkster (Ms. Barrett).

Hon. Jean Friesen (Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I move, seconded by the Minister of Justice (Mr. Mackintosh), that Bill 2, The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur la Ville de Winnipeg, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House.

Ms. Friesen: I am glad to have the opportunity of a few minutes to put some comments on the record on this bill.

Bill 2 proposes to amend The City of Winnipeg Act to allow the city to register a variety of orders against the title of the property they affect. The proposed amendment was originally requested by the Community Education and Development Association and the West Central Residents Committee in a joint submission to Winnipeg City Council. I know that there are a number of other community groups and residents associations in the city of Winnipeg which have also been interested in this type of amendment to The City of Winnipeg Act.

This submission was eventually forwarded to the province for consideration. The amendment has also been identified as a priority in two city reports, the draft Winnipeg Housing Policy and the Action Against Arson proposal, recently put forward by a city standing committee which has been dealing with a variety of issues on arson. Mr. Speaker, I want to say that we are well aware that this is not the only amendment to The City of Winnipeg Act that many groups have proposed, but it is one that we feel can be acted upon relatively quickly.

This particular act, of course, applies to the city as a whole, amending The City of Winnipeg Act. The amendment may be used in a variety of situations where the repair and upkeep of a building is in question. The need for the amendment has certainly been recognized as important in the inner city, but I do want to stress that it is a law of general application and will apply to all houses or can apply, I should say, to all houses where this is an issue.

There are areas of the city where there are many boarded-up houses. In some cases there are several boarded-up houses on one particular block. In opposition, I invited the previous government to examine this issue and to provide remedies for it. We looked at issues of insurance. We looked at other issues of renovations to these houses. There were many opportunities, I think, that the previous government had to deal with aspects of this issue. We do not want to pretend that this particular amendment will solve all the issues, but we do indicate that it is one step that has been requested by the community and which we think may be part of a solution.

Boarded-up houses I think, as many members know, contribute to an image of neglect in parts of the city. They create concerns for personal and property safety. They do reduce neighbourhood property values. They reduce property tax assessment and hence city tax revenue as well. They can be, on occasion, the target of criminal or disorderly acts. Boarded-up properties in general place at risk the commitment that inner city residents have made throughout Winnipeg to their communities.

At present, The City of Winnipeg Act gives Winnipeg broad authority to deal with a variety of property conditions including nuisances–and that covers a wide range of issues–untidy and unsightly premises, as it says in the act, violations of The Public Health Act, conditions which may result in fires and violations of building standards including dangerous buildings.

Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair

The city can and has adopted by-laws to address these conditions and to ensure property and safety standards are met. The law must also, Mr. Deputy Speaker, ensure that orders to rectify problems can be implemented in a timely manner. Currently, if an owner is directed to comply with a by-law, The City of Winnipeg Act requires that the city must serve the order on the property owner. The order gives the owner a reasonable time to comply with the by-law. If the owner considers the order unfair, he or she may quite properly appeal the order, and there are a variety of procedures for that.

One problem that can arise is that owners may sell their property after being served with an order but before the deadline has expired for compliance. Since the new owner has not been served with the order, the city is required to go again through the process of finding and serving the new owner with the order and then, appropriately of course, appeal times must follow and giving the person a reasonable time period to comply with the order. Only then can the order be finally enforced. Of course, nothing prevents the second owner from selling it again as the deadline approaches, thus the city must go through the whole process yet again.

The bill offers a solution to the delays which, for a variety of reasons–and there are many reasons that properties are sold. It makes it possible under the amendment for the city to offer alternatives for a timely enforcement of these orders. So this bill will enable the city, if it so chooses, to register an order which has been issued for a property against the property title. This is enabling. It enables the city to do this.

The bill will also require the city to formally discharge the order from the title once there has been a compliance. A subsequent purchaser of the property will then be deemed to have been served with this order and will be just as responsible as the first owner for complying with the order in the time period permitted. No further service on the subsequent purchaser will be required.

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Bill 2, we believe, provides the City of Winnipeg with an important tool to support citizens in the maintenance of the city and particularly in renewing the inner city. In the past, the practice of transferring the property title could, on occasion, result in delays in executing an order, and there are certainly communities in the city, in the inner city, in particular, who believe they have been affected by this. This bill will allow the city to enforce the orders more quickly. It will be a benefit to neighbourhoods and communities throughout the city.

Bill 2 symbolizes our government's commitment to the people of Winnipeg and to inner city neighbourhoods. It also sends a clear message to the citizens of Winnipeg and Manitoba that the province is ready to participate in the process of revitalizing our capital's inner city.

This bill is one step and I emphasize that. It is one step, one part, in addressing the multiple challenges facing this important part of our community, and these challenges will need to be addressed in many areas. I have already spoken in the House many times on the actions that the Department of Labour and the Department of Justice have taken to assist the city in dealing with the current issues. There are many departments of government, Education and health care in particular, which also deal with the issues that are facing the citizens of Winnipeg.

But we in this government are prepared to take the necessary time to develop the long-term strategies that will guide our future initiatives. Most importantly, we are committed to working with, to forming alliances with others, particularly other levels of government as well as community organizations so that we can work together in the best interests of all the citizens of Winnipeg.

In the coming months, this government will be putting forward a number of initiatives around urban issues in the city which may include further legislatives changes, new programs and new focuses for existing programs. We are committed to continuing to work in partnership with the city, the federal government, community groups, businesses and individuals who care deeply about Winnipeg and its neighbourhoods to develop co-ordinated common sense and neighbourhood-based solutions.

In conclusion, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I recommend this bill to the members of the Legislature for their consideration and adoption.

Mr. Jack Reimer (Southdale): Mr. Deputy Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to put a few words on the record in regard to Bill 2. [interjection] Just a few, yes, because we will be supporting this legislation. It is a continuation, I believe, of a lot of the efforts and the programs that we initiated on our side of the government, and this was a continuation of some of the things that were brought forth for consideration as we were building up to the election of September of this year.

We had been in conversation with the city in regard to trying to look at some of the solutions in regard to the problems that were faced in what was referred to as flipping of properties so that the notices of nuisances and the notice for repairs for safety and health reasons were not being complied with, and as has been referred to by the minister, where they were just registered against the homeowner instead of the property itself. It gave the homeowner or the renter the opportunity to move that property along through other avenues, flipping it to other areas.

So this piece of legislation is legislation that we feel the City of Winnipeg can use as an enabling piece of legislation. It gives them the opportunity to make the decision on their own. We feel that that is a very strong area where the City of Winnipeg has indicated that they do want to be able to make their decisions. They do feel that the decision making should be empowered within council. We in government at the time agreed with them, and that was one of the reasons why the Cuff report was passed. This is, in essence, a continuation of some of the more specifics that the City of Winnipeg was looking for in regard to the Cuff report.

So I believe that it is encouraging to hear that the present government and the minister is talking about delegating or giving further enabling legislation to the City of Winnipeg with City of Winnipeg amendments. I know that there is a redraft of The City of Winnipeg Act. It is being finalized at this particular time, and, if I recall, the time frame was for presentation before year-end for possible implementation into the new year with some of the amendments, and that may be coming. We look forward to that, because I think that the relationship between the city and the province is something that both governments should work very, very continuously at because it is of benefit for not only Winnipeg but for Manitoba. If you have a strong Winnipeg, you have a strong Manitoba, and vice versa. So there is room for both to work in a co-operative manner, and I would think that the new government should look on that in a very positive manner.

I notice the minister mentioned a lot of the other departments in regard to working with the city. She mentioned the Justice department, the Labour department, but I would think within the Intergovernmental Affairs department there is a tremendous opportunity with some of the existing agreements that are in place with the City of Winnipeg like the Urban Projects Capital Allocation fund, the MWCRP fund, the Winnipeg Development Agreement funding. There are a lot of avenues available that are still there for the minister to explore for building upon the relationship with the City of Winnipeg.

The uniqueness of some of those programs, especially the Urban Capital shared programming, it was a $96-million program between the City of Winnipeg and the province, one of a kind in Canada. There is still a fair amount of funding that is unallocated, which I would think that the minister should look at very seriously for the enhancement and for the betterment of Winnipeg, whether it is in the core area or wherever it is in the city because it is meant to be a city-wide program.

I would think that there is an opportunity there to make some significant changes in working with the city for the allocation of funds, because there is the allocation of $36 million, $96 million or $90 million, or pardon me–$33 million and $60 million, with $60 million still allocated can be utilized through the province, gives the minister and the present government an opportunity to bring forth some very significant programs for the city of Winnipeg.

Under that program the Manitoba-Winnipeg Community Revitalization Program, there is a $7-million allocation there that still has not been utilized. I would expect that the new government and the minister would be looking at that in a very positive manner in trying to get that one off the ground very shortly. I know we were working with the City of Winnipeg and the mayor at the time was looking at how we could best utilize that program. I would expect that that should be coming forth to add into the revitalization of the downtown area or specific areas that they feel it should be looked after.

I would think that the new government has a task at force because during our tenure, the 10 years that we were in government, the funding to the City of Winnipeg never went down. It averaged 4 percent increase every year from the province to the city. So I would think that there is a precedent there that the new government can look at and point to our commitment that we had with the City of Winnipeg. I notice there have been comments saying that we have neglected the city in our relationship, but I can only refer back to a person that is even working within their staff now in a report that was compiled to the city that the City of Winnipeg gets the largest share of revenue on a per capita basis than any other city in Canada, Mr. Peter Diamant's report. It is encouraging that she is using his advice to increase even more funding for the City of Winnipeg. So I look forward to those directions that may come out of that department, so there is room for other programming in there.

I should point out that I found it interesting in regard to the Cuff report in the City Council, just recently when they were talking about the allocation of funding, the chairman of the finance department of the City of Winnipeg had allocated funding. I believe it was just over $4.4 million and then all of a sudden they realized that the money was spent, and they said: oh, we did not realize we could do that. Yet it was that same councillor and that same chairman of the finance department that was lobbying so hard with our government to give them the ability to make decisions. Once we gave them the ability to make decisions through the Cuff report, all of a sudden they realized that they were spending this money. So it was just a bit ironic that you give them the power, they make the decision, and then all of a sudden they are backtracking and saying: oh, we did not know we could make those decisions.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, with this bill, like I said, I think that the City of Winnipeg can benefit from them. It gives them the enabling powers to go after the clean-up of boarded up buildings, nuisances, health hazards, and things of those nature, and like I said we will be supporting this bill.

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Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): I am delighted to speak on Bill 2 and want to compliment our Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs (Ms. Friesen) for bringing this forward and getting agreement to pass it expeditiously.

I was founding member of the Housing Concerns Group in the early 1980s, and I can tell you that this was a problem back then. So I think I can say that it has been a serious problem for at least 20 years, that is, property owners buying and selling properties in order to get out of various kinds of orders by the City of Winnipeg. What problem does this bill address? It addresses the inability of the City of Winnipeg to issue health orders, repair orders, et cetera, and have them followed through. This is because there exists a loophole whereby property owners could sell their properties, and the result is that the city would have to start the process all over again.

For example, I was told just recently of a house on Flora Avenue and a business on Selkirk Avenue where the city had obtained a demolition order, the bulldozer was already to go to demolish these properties, and they were sold. The result is that everything grinds to a halt, and the city has to inspect them all over again, and it can be a lengthy process. It can require up to a year's time to successfully demolish a property.

Bill 2 means that the order to repair or improve a property will be registered against the title of the property. If the property is sold, the new owner would be deemed to have been served with the same order, effectively putting an end to it. I would like to give some examples of how this affects people particularly in the inner city, but as the minister pointed out, it could be anywhere in the city. For example, I have correspondence from the Luxton Residents Association from December 6, 1999, which points out that 1162 Lansdowne Avenue had been boarded up since the beginning of this year. There was an outstanding work order from the City of Winnipeg which expired in October, at which time the property was flipped to a new owner. The repair order on the property is still outstanding.

Well, because of the initiative of this government because of Bill 2 this will no longer happen, and the city will have the power to follow through on various kinds of orders. Even before the problem of flipping, another problem which I hope the government will address in the future is the fact that if houses are securely boarded up, inspectors cannot get into them in order to issue work orders and that can cause some serious problems. For example, in Burrows constituency one house was boarded up for over 15 years, and it was only because of two fires in the house that the city inspectors were able to get in. Fortunately this story has a happy ending, because the house was demolished and two new houses built with volunteers by Habitat for Humanity were erected on the same property.

In conclusion I would like to commend the government for acting so quickly to resolve this problem or to close the loophole, and we thank the official opposition for co-operating to pass this bill expeditiously. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): I appreciate the opportunity to say a few words on Bill 2. As the honourable member for Southdale (Mr. Reimer) mentioned, it is a bill that we will be supporting and certainly if there is a continuation of the work that was started under the previous government. I would like to thank the minister's staff for taking the time to brief us on the bill last week. It certainly was appreciated.

As anyone who reads the legislation will recognize, it is a very permissive and enabling piece of legislation which allows the City of Winnipeg to hopefully start to control a situation that I think we need to get a better handle on in terms of inner city housing, and it certainly gives the city, it has been mentioned, the opportunity to act when property owners are putting together schemes to avoid their own individual responsibilities.

I do however have some concerns about the legislation as it has been presented. I think the biggest concern I have is that through the wording in the legislation there is no guarantee that it will be applied in an even-handed manner to anyone who receives one of the orders described in the explanatory notes. I think this raises a spectre of danger in terms of the application of these orders and the registering of these orders.

Now, we have to go back to December 7, last week, when the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (Mr. Lemieux) in his response to the throne speech indicated that it is a fundamental belief of members opposite that everybody be treated on equal footing. Certainly the amendment as it is presented allows for certain property owners to have their orders registered and certain other property owners to not have their orders registered.

I know also through speaking with some of the staff at the City of Winnipeg subsequent to the briefing, they also have concerns as to how they, in fact, are going to differentiate between who they register an order against and who gets left off the list in terms of ordering registrations. It has been brought to my attention through the briefing conducted by the minister's staff that it indeed appears that it is a relatively small group of landlords, property owners in the inner city that are taking advantage of this loophole which now exists to flip property in order to avoid their responsibility regarding the orders that are given to them.

While that is a deplorable situation, it does not necessarily warrant that a system be put in place that allows for different treatment of citizens within our community who own property based on either where they own the property, where the property is geographically located. Although the reference certainly in the dialogue has been to inner city properties, this also gives the city the right to register these orders on any property throughout the city. So the conclusion one can draw is that some will be registered, some will not. In fact, people who have had orders registered against their property, will they have concerns that because they know a certain individual at the city or because they are on a little different terms with the City Council or a city councillor that orders are registered against their property and not against the different property owners? I think that is a legitimate concern.

There are a tremendous number of orders issued in a year. Speaking to people in the Housing department, there are over 2,000–simply in that one department, 2,000–orders listed already this year. The cost, I understand, of registering these orders is $35 per order. One naturally will draw the conclusion that the city would not want to register every order simply as a matter of not wanting to increase its cost of doing business. You know, if you extrapolate that to other departments, maybe there are 4,000 orders listed in a year, at $35 an order, well, that would come to $150,000, and maybe then the mayor would not be able to spend those funds on redoing his office. I mean, who knows? In any event, it is a concern of mine.

I also have a concern that after the briefing, I took the opportunity to phone the councillor responsible for Intergovernmental Affairs, Jae Eadie, who had not received a copy of the legislation to his knowledge and had not seen it. The next day I spoke to Councillor De Smedt, the chairman of the Property Development committee, who also had not seen the legislation. So I took the opportunity to send them both over a copy.

As I mentioned, I spoke to staff from the City of Winnipeg, particularly in the Housing department, who had no idea of how they would go about making a distinction between those orders that were to be registered and, in fact, those orders that would not be registered. I think that is a concern to staff. So I want to talk about working in partnership with the various levels of governments. I think it is important that the provincial government try and close the loop and make sure that the people not only who are responsible for the legislative changes at the city but the people who are responsible for implementing this policy have a clear understanding of where it is going and what ramifications they will have.

I think, Mr. Speaker, I point out to the members opposite that there are many fine examples throughout the country in terms of enabling legislation which operates in a fair and even-handed way for anybody who receives an order similar to as described in the explanatory notes. I will just give one example, the city of Edmonton, who, when they issue an order, impose a fine on the owner of the property at the time, and it is treated similar to any other ticket that would be issued by any other city department. There is a fine placed on the owner, and that fine would never be rescinded unless the order is complied with. That is a fairly recent change in the way the City of Edmonton handles it, and my understanding from discussions with people there is they are very satisfied with how it is working. So I would encourage the minister and her department to look at possibly more longer-term solutions which could be applied certainly even-handedly.

I think, as I mentioned earlier, this piece of legislation certainly is a first step. I am very pleased to hear that the minister admits that it is one first step, but I think it is a very small step and one that has very limited value in the long term. So I would hope that they would open this up through further consultation and further discussion. Just by way of I guess attempting to help, certainly in this day and age with the ability to pass information over the wires and with computerization in the City of Winnipeg and the Land Titles department, certainly there is not a cost of $35 per order, of passing this order from one body in the city to one body in the province. I think we will all do well to understand that at the end of the day, it is one taxpayer who is footing the bill. The more efficient that we can get the various levels of government, in particular, in this case, the Land Titles Office and the various offices in the city that are issuing the orders to work on an economical, efficient and co-ordinated approach, the better off we will all be.

I think what has happened here, Mr. Speaker, is that certainly the minister has provided the City of Winnipeg with the stick with which to beat the landlords, and quite rightly so. I mean, where they are avoiding their responsibility, it certainly at times does take some powerful enforcement in order for them to stand up to it. I would like to remind the minister that probably the most effective way of dealing with this issue is through some type of carrot for those individuals who own property in the inner city, who need some help, who need some support, whether they are renting that property or whether they are owning that property, and I do believe that the only real solution to this problem, which this amendment is attempting to address, is to provide the necessary hope and opportunity to the people in the inner city that they can build their community, that they can own property, that there is a hope that when they work together to improve the lot in the inner city that the value of their housing will increase.

I would certainly encourage the minister in her dealings with the city in a co-operative spirit look for creative ways to create the carrot that will allow the people of the inner city to take control of their own situation and have a feeling of hope and opportunity for the future. One only needs to look at the millions of dollars that have been spent over the years through the Winnipeg Development Agreement and other similar agreements that date back years and years to the '70s and the existing state of downtown to understand that it is not purely by spending public dollars. That is no key to revitalizing any area. I hope that would be taken forward in the minister's desire to support those people in the inner city who so badly need our help. Thank you.

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Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak on Bill 2, briefly compliment the minister on producing the legislation, at the same time to express some concern that after 11 years in opposition and a lot of time to prepare that we did not have a much more solid profile of legislation for this session. I think that many of us would have much appreciated an action-packed agenda with more real, substantive legislation this time around. We are a little disappointed that other ministers have not also produced legislation that could be tabled and looked at and evaluated and started to debate.

With the sort of enthusiasm that was present in the election, one would have expected a whole lot more activity quickly. We will wait and we will hope that, come the spring, in fact there will be a lot more legislation. Clearly there was a lot that was left undone. I hope that, while I support in general concept this legislation, the minister, perhaps in her closing remarks, will address today or in the committee tomorrow this question of ensuring that the application will be fair and equitable and will not be done on some sort of arrangement as too often happened in the past where individuals were singled out instead of a more general and equitable and fair approach to implementing law.

The other issue that I would raise that I think is important, and I would ask the minister if, in fact, together with the City of Winnipeg, she has done a cost-of-implementation analysis which we would expect in this sort of legislation and presented so that we know what, in fact, the cost of putting in place the bureaucracy, the cost of implementing this legislation is going to be. None of us in this House want to impose unnecessary costs of bureaucracy on the public. I think it is rather important in any piece of legislation that we look carefully at the costs as well as at its effects.

I look forward to the comments at the committee stage tomorrow, but I think that in putting on the record just a few things, the positive nature of this in general towards the inner city and perhaps in other areas of the city. I am pleased that, in fact, we have an initiative that relates to the inner city, because this is important not only to the city but it is important to the health of the province. With that and with those comments, we will sit down and hope that the minister can, in fact, satisfactorily address the concerns raised.

Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? The question before the House is second reading of Bill 2, The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Mr. Speaker: Agreed and so ordered.

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): On a matter of House business, Mr. Speaker, I wish to announce that the Municipal Affairs committee will meet on Tuesday, December 14, 1999, at 10 a.m. in Room 255 to consider Bill 2, The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act.

Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader advises that the Municipal Affairs committee will meet on Tuesday, December 14, 1999, at 10 a.m. in Room 255 to consider Bill 2, The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act.

Mr. Mackintosh: Is there leave to call it six o'clock?

Mr. Speaker: Is there leave to call it six o'clock? [agreed]

The hour being 6 p.m., this House is adjourned and stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow (Tuesday).