Hon. Eric Robinson (Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I have a statement for the House.

I am pleased to report briefly on the delegation to Iqaluit, Nunavut territory, led by the honourable Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs (Ms. Friesen), and subsequent meetings including myself and senior staff from Manitoba Hydro, Tourism, Transportation, Intergovernmental Affairs and Aboriginal and Northern Affairs held last week.

Nunavut, as members of this Chamber know, now has a special relationship with our province. The seven Kivalliq communities of Nunavut, to the north of Churchill, have been major trading partners with this province for many years. The Churchill hospital provides valuable health services to these communities and to Sanikiluaq.

Northern Manitoba is not just a centre for shipping of goods and the provider of health services to Nunavut; there are strong personal traditional and cultural connections between the two regions.

Indeed, Mr. Speaker, your personal ties to Nunavut are well known and respected throughout the territory. Members of the Tootoo and Hickes families are very prominent throughout Nunavut. This past week we had the opportunity to meet with Hunter Tootoo, member of the Legislature for Iqaluit Centre, and Victor Tootoo, Assistant Deputy Minister of Finance, amongst other officials.

In February of 2000, our Premier (Mr. Doer) and Premier Okalik signed a memorandum of understanding in Rankin Inlet committing the two governments to work together. The meetings last week were the first multi-sector discussions held at the ministerial level concerning the MOU and our common goals.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to report briefly on the delegation to Iqaluit. Since the MOU, there has been significant progress in a number of areas, and many of our ministers, including myself, have met frequently with our Nunavut counterparts. We have some exciting opportunities upcoming. I look forward to seeing announcements in the near future.

Last April, at the Rural Forum, the Kivalliq mayors, officials and Norman regional mayors signed an MOU, further promoting ties between the two regions. Nunavut ministers Jack Anawak and Olayuk Akesuk, along with Manitoba ministers of Intergovernmental Affairs (Ms. Friesen), Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk), Education and Training (Mr. Caldwell), Consumer and Corporate Affairs (Mr. Smith), and I, witnessed this important accomplishment and pledged our support.

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The Manitoba government liaison officer for Nunavut, Mr. Richard Connelly, has linked more than 100 businesses and services with Nunavut communities and organizations, resulting in several Manitoba business expansions and new services and developments in Nunavut. We see great opportunities to build new partnerships in areas such as transportation, tourism promotion, business development, training and education in many fields, alternative energy and hydro generation, improved health care and dentistry services, cultural exchanges, to speak of just a few.

There are several potential mine sites in Nunavut. The mining industry in Manitoba is actively supporting their development. Manitoba Industry, Trade and Mines are actively involved in working with Nunavut and the Norman Regional Development Corporation on these developments. The Norman Regional Development Corporation is also working with the Province of Nunavut on a joint tourism initiative.

While in Iqaluit, it was our pleasure to observe and be recognized in a session of the Nunavut Legislature and to meet individually with several Cabinet ministers, including the Honourable Edward Picco, Minister of Health and Social Services and Minister responsible for Nunavut Power Corporation; the Honourable Jack Anawak, Minister of Transportation and Government; the Honourable Olayuk Akesuk, Minister of Sustainable Development; the Honourable Manitok Thompson, Minister of Public Works and Services; the Honourable Peter Kilabuk, Minister of Education; the Honourable Peter Kattuk, the Minister of Culture, Language, Elders and Youth; and the Speaker, the Honourable Kevin O'Brien.

We also met with Premier Okalik to discuss issues and potential new agreements between our two territories. The Nunavut government also hosted our delegation and shared their vision of how we can work together in a number of areas.

Many of the difficult economic and social challenges that they face, such as a shortage of housing, the high cost of living and severe unemployment rates, along with the resulting social concerns such as despair and suicides, are very similar to those faced in remote northern communities of our province.

We discussed the proposal from the Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra to tour Nunavut communities next spring, holding concerts in the communities and musical workshops, blending Inuit music and song with the orchestra. We also discussed building on a recent National Aboriginal Youth forum by increasing Inuit youth delegations at the Rural Forum and having a special youth seminar at that time.

While in Iqaluit, we also had the opportunity to discuss plans to undertake a regional round table between the Kivalliq region, including the Kivalliq Chamber of Commerce, and the Churchill, Gillam and Fox Lake communities, the first meeting to be hosted by the town of Churchill early in the new year. This initiative was first raised at the Norman conference in Churchill, in September, when many of the Kivalliq mayors and several Nunavut ministers were in attendance.

Premier Okalik and his government invited Manitoba to share in the excitement and experience of the 2002 Arctic Winter Games on March 17-23, 2002, that will be co-hosted by Iqaluit and Nuuk, Greenland. In turn, Manitoba extended an invitation to the National Aboriginal Achievement Awards celebration, which will be held next March in Winnipeg, and the North American Indigenous Games, that will be held next July 25 to August 4 here in the city of Winnipeg. All of the meetings were informative and useful in strengthening ties between our regions.

We greatly appreciate the warm hospitality of the Nunavut legislators. The strong support of the Manitoba Assembly for the partnerships between Nunavut and the province is very encouraging.

I am very confident that we can build upon the work done over the last few years and provide new benefits to both Nunavut and Manitoba. I want to also note the work of the previous administration in promoting greater ties between our two jurisdictions. These efforts helped immensely in creating the momentum that we now have in our discussions and negotiations with Nunavut officials and businesses.

Mr. Frank Pitura (Morris): I thank the minister for sharing his statement with the House today. I think that we on this side all realize the importance of establishing a relationship with the Nunavut province and continuing to further our relationship.

I am also pleased the minister recognized that the previous administration had started the relationship with the Nunavut province, and recognizing that is certainly worthy of note. Also, Mr. Speaker, between Nunavut and Manitoba, northern Manitoba in particular, we have many common interests, and we have also many issues that we share with regard to the issues that the minister pointed out in his statement.

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I also think that it provides a great potential for the province of Manitoba in the development of the Churchill area, and particularly the town of Churchill, as becoming a gateway to the North for not only Nunavut but probably for all of the northern parts of Canada.

I would also like to recognize that the Speaker, our Speaker, has many ties with the Nunavut region and relatives, both in the legislative area and in the sports area. I believe that having the Speaker here as a part of that relationship will create a greater bonding between the Nunavut region and the province of Manitoba.

I also noted in the minister's remarks that he met with the Honourable Manitok Thompson. I just want to relate here to the House that my sister spent a great deal of her life in the Northwest Territories, as they were then called, and in the Arctic Circle, in the education area, and that Manitok Thompson was one of her students that she had go through her classes.

I am also pleased that the Nunavut region invited the province of Manitoba to share with them in their Arctic Games and, as well, to share with us in the National Aboriginal Achievement Awards here in Winnipeg, which is of interest, very much common, and also to have them participate and enjoy the North American Indigenous Games next summer here in the province of Manitoba. I would point out to all members of the Legislature, that the previous administration had originally approved the funding for the North American Indigenous Games here in the province.

So I am confident, Mr. Speaker, based on the minister's statement, that many good things will come as a result of the relationship with Nunavut, and I encourage the minister to follow up on the common interests and the issues that he has outlined in his statement. We look forward to having a long-term congenial relationship with the province of Nunavut.

Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I ask for leave to speak on the minister's statement.

Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave? [Agreed]

Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I have listened with interest to the minister's statement. I think the list of some positive developments, in terms of partnerships between Manitoba and Nunavut, is a good thing and look forward to more developments in this area.

On the other hand, I would like to draw attention to one of the areas which I believe was not only absent but which should have been there. Recently I had a chance to visit Cross Lake, and in subsequent discussions learned about the problem, not only in that community but in other communities with a very high level of suicide among young people in northern Manitoba. The people in Cross Lake have developed a crisis intervention centre and a crisis line which appears to be having some success and is being used in other areas.

This is very relevant because this is a northern issue. It applies to not only northern Manitoba but to parts of Nunavut. There is an opportunity for a partnership in preventive health approaches such as suicide prevention, which I believe was missed.

Hon. MaryAnn Mihychuk (Minister of Industry, Trade and Mines): I am pleased to table copies of the following 2000-2001 annual reports, copies of which have already been tabled in accordance with intersessional procedures: the Co-operative Promotion Board; the Co-operative Loans and Loans Guarantee Board; the Economic Innovation and Technology Council; the Industrial Technology Centre; and the Annual Report for the Department of Industry, Trade and Mines.

Hon. Scott Smith (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the following reports, copies of which have been previously distributed: Annual Report of the Manitoba Liquor Control Commission for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2001; Manitoba Liquor Control Commission, Quarterly Report, Three Months, April 1 to June 30, 2001; and the Manitoba Liquor Control Commission, Quarterly Report, Six Months, April 1 to September 30, 2001.

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Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Family Services and Housing): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table copies of the following reports: Annual Report for Healthy Child Manitoba and the Annual Report for the Department of Family Services and Housing, copies of which have already been tabled in accordance with intersessional procedures.

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister responsible for the Status of Women (Ms. McGifford), that leave be given to introduce Bill 8, The Limitation of Actions Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur la prescription, and that the same be now received and read a first time.

Mr. Mackintosh: This bill provides that a civil action for assault can be commenced at any time, regardless of when the assault took place, if the assault was sexual in nature, the victim had an intimate relationship with the person who committed an assault, or the victim was financially, emotionally, physically or otherwise dependent on a person who committed the assault, and also notably allows for transitional provisions.

Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us, from the University of Manitoba, 35 English as a Second Language students under the direction of Mr. Tim Podolsky. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau).

Also in the public gallery we have from Lockport School 79 Grade 9 students under the direction of Mr. Tony Mravnik. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today.

Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, on Friday I asked the Premier if he had been open, honest and consistent with respect to his Government's relationship with HOPE. He did not answer the question.

Today, I would like to ask the Premier some questions about consistency. I hope that he will deign to answer them.

On November 9, the Minister of Education (Mr. Caldwell) appointed an official trustee to run the Morris-Macdonald School Division and removed the board trustees and secretarytreasurer of the school division.

I would like to table three copies of section 28(3) of The Public Schools Act. Section 28(3) reads: "Upon the appointment of an official trustee under this section for any school division or school district, all other trustees and officials of the school division or school district . . . shall cease to hold office . . . ."

My question to the Premier is straightforward. Is the superintendent of a school division, in his mind, an official of the school division?

Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I will take the specifics as notice. But when people are talking about deigning to answer questions, perhaps the Leader of the Opposition–

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I understand that with the leaders' latitude, but the Premier has already stated that he would take it under advisement.

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An Honourable Member: As notice.

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): As I recall, the Premier said he would take specifics under advisement, but he was prepared to answer the general aspects of the question.

Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable Official Opposition House Leader, I will have to take it under advisement because I did not hear the full context of the Premier's comment, if he was taking the question as notice or if he was taking a portion of it as notice. I will have to review Hansard and come back with a ruling on that.

Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, we are still awaiting on this side, and I would refer the Leader of the Opposition to a precedent made and a speech made by one Clayton Manness, then the member for Morris, former Minister of Finance and former Government House Leader. When a former leader of the Opposition, Mrs. Carstairs, made a comment about an individual, a Deputy Finance Minister, the next day, the former Finance Minister requested and received an apology in this House.

Mr. Speaker, given the serious nature of the fraud allegation made by the Leader of the Opposition with the misrepresentation of the comments made, one would think the Leader of the Opposition would deign to stand up in this House and apologize, as Mrs. Carstairs did a number of years ago.

Mr. Murray: Well, Mr. Speaker, again we hear no answers. When the official trustee was appointed for Morris-Macdonald, the superintendent kept her job while the secretarytreasurer who reported to her and the board that she reported to, lost theirs. I will repeat for the Premier if he does not understand it. I will repeat again 28(3): "Upon the appointment of an official trustee under this section for any school division or school district, all other trustees and officials of the school division or school district, if any, shall cease to hold office . . . ."

Does the Premier believe that his minister's action in keeping the superintendent of MorrisMacdonald is consistent with The Public Schools Act?

Mr. Doer: I am sure the Department of Education in the issuing of an Order-in-Council receives legal opinion prior to its signature. As a matter of–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Mr. Doer: Members opposite are talking about taking responsibility. It is unfortunate they did not have the same kind of political will in 1998 when there was a request made to have an audit of the Morris-Macdonald School Division adult education, and they saw no evil, they heard no evil, they could hear no evil. It is unfortunate, when they talk about responsibility, those words ring hollow in this Chamber.

Mr. Murray: Again, if there is one thing the Premier is consistent on, it is not answering questions. We know, Mr. Speaker, that the superintendent was actively involved in attempts to obtain funding for the adult learning centres, both in Morris-Macdonald, very active, and we know that. That was back in February. She was also in contact with the Deputy Minister of Education with regard to Classroom 56 and HOPE as early as February, and the audit was not called until March 29 of 2001.

We have heard that the Minister of Education has great latitude with respect to his budget. Apparently he does not need to go to Treasury Board for approvals. Does the same latitude extend to his being free to interpret the law as he sees fit? Is that the standard the Premier sees fit for his ministers?

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Mr. Doer: We have a Leader of the Opposition who decided to interpret the law and interpret the comments of the Provincial Auditor, and then, not only interpret them, misrepresent them in this Chamber. We need no lectures from the member opposite. [interjection] Perhaps if members opposite would stop heckling they would hear an answer. It might not be the answer they want, but they will hear an answer.

Mr. Speaker, the individual put in charge of the school division by the Minister of Education, Mr. Krawec, is, in our view, a very competent individual, a person who has a very positive reputation, I would argue, across all sides of this Chamber. He is the individual now who will be dealing with many, many issues that arise from the situation in Morris-Macdonald, the situation dealing with the transition with the reduced school divisions in that area, the situation dealing with the transition on adult education, a situation dealing with the transition of programs and students who are affected by the adult education situation.

I know that we are concerned, as the member from the constituency is concerned, to make sure that transition takes place with a balance between the findings of the Provincial Auditor on the financial side and a balance on delivering programs to students, youth and young adults who are involved and enrolled in the adult education section.

Mr. Speaker, the decision was made, regrettably, to replace the trustees, but I think the individual who has been chosen to deal with all the matters, not only the Auditor's report, but if there are other matters the MLA or others would want to raise with us, I think we have a very, very credible individual put in place, and that for us is the key decision. Given the serious nature of the decision that was made by the Minister of Education, we had to ensure there was a knowledgeable, credible, experienced public educator who had credibility across these aisles and credibility with the public in education. I think we have done that with Mr. Krawec.

Mr. Mervin Tweed (Turtle Mountain): Mr. Speaker, we on this side of the House noticed it is not the first time the Minister of Education has drawn the attention of the Auditor. I would refer the members in the House to the conclusions of the March report where the Auditor stated about the minister: The minister should not have provided direction to this board to contravene their enabling legislation.

He went on further to state: Public monies have been disbursed without proper authority.

Now, Mr. Speaker, we see the same situation seeing itself shown in The Public Schools Act. My question to the Minister of Education is: Does the minister believe he has contravened the law?

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): I would just call the members and your attention to Beauchesne's 409: It must be a specific question, not an expression of opinion, representation, argument or debate.

It then goes on to say, Mr. Speaker: The question ought to seek information and, therefore, cannot be based upon a hypothesis, cannot seek an opinion, either legal or otherwise, and must not suggest its own action, be argumentative, or make representations.

Mr. Speaker, the question was really asking for an opinion. In fact it was asking for a legal opinion. Question Period is about seeking information.

Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Turtle Mountain, on the same point of order.

Mr. Tweed: Just for clarity, I will make it very simple: Did the minister break the law?

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Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable Government House Leader, he does have a point of order. "The question ought to seek information and, therefore, cannot be based upon a hypothesis . . . ." That is under Beauchesne 409(3).

The honourable member, would you pose a new question?

Mr. Tweed: Again, referring to the document produced by the Auditor where he states the minister should not have provided direction to the board to contravene their enabling legislation. It would appear in his comments that he has made in the past that he is contravening The Public Schools Act, section 28(3).

I would ask the minister if he broke the law.

Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education, Training and Youth): I will give a factual answer to that question, although it is hard to give factual answers when the questions contain so many factual errors, as they have all week, and not only factual errors but personal attacks and character assassination at an unprecedented level in this House.

With regard to the decision to have Mr. Alex Krawec, former mayor of the village of Stonewall, well-respected educator and well-respected municipal official, attend to this situation as a trustee, we in this House have a lot of confidence in individuals. All we have heard from members opposite for the last two weeks is character assassination at an unprecedented level in this Chamber, including another request again for another resignation which was just in the first series of questions.

Mr. Tweed: I will try and make this perfectly clear. The minister seems to have a hard time coming forward with any definite answer.

Has the minister broken the law, section 28(3) of The Public Schools Act, by not dismissing the superintendent at the same time that he fired the school board?

Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, the citation has already been put forward, but the question was seeking an opinion as to law and seeking an opinion from a particular minister. The member opposite, if he wishes to seek a legal opinion, has places he can go to get it, but Question Period is about seeking information.

Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable Government House Leader, he does have a point of order. The question ought to seek information and, therefore, cannot be based on hypothesis, cannot seek an opinion, either legal or otherwise, and must not suggest its own answer, be argumentative or make representations. That is from Beauchesne 409(3).

I would ask the honourable member to please reword his question.

Mr. Tweed: Has the minister sought legal advice as to whether he was breaking the law re subsection 28(3) of The Public Schools Act?

Mr. Caldwell: I must say that I am impressed with the disingenuousness of the member opposite, if nothing else.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Mr. Caldwell: We are working assiduously on this side of the House to bring some accountability to a system of adult learning in this province designed by members opposite that had no legislative framework, that saw tens of millions of dollars of taxpayers' money going out the door without any staff in the department to monitor taxpayers' money as it went out the door, no accountability in terms of program excellence for adult learning centres in this province, and no fiscal accountability.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): Beauchesne 417: Answers to questions should be as brief as possible, deal with the matter raised and not provoke debate. The question to the minister was whether he sought a legal opinion.

Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader, on the same point of order.

Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, I know the Opposition. They want to make sure that Manitobans hear the question, but not hear the answer, particularly when it is embarrassing to them about their scandalous cover-up of millions of dollars of misspent money.

Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable Official Opposition House Leader, he does have a point of order. Beauchesne Citation 417: Answers to questions should be as brief as possible, deal with the matter raised, and to not provoke debate.

Mr. Speaker: Has the honourable minister concluded his comments on that question?

Mr. Tweed: Just for clarification, this is my second supplementary. Again, Mr. Speaker, I will try to make this as simple as I possibly can for the Minister of Education. Did he seek a legal opinion re 28 subsection (3) of The Public Schools Act, before he fired the trustees of the school division?

Mr. Caldwell: We acted in accord with The Public Schools Act.

Mr. Mervin Tweed (Turtle Mountain): Well, then I would like to remind members opposite of the act itself, section 28(3) states: "Upon the appointment of an official trustee under this section for any school division or school district, all other trustees and officials of the school division or school district, if any, shall cease to hold office . . . ."

My question to the Minister of Education (Mr. Caldwell): Is the superintendent that was working for the division prior to him dismissing the school board still working with that school division?

Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Last week members opposite took various and selective parts of the Manual of Administration to try to: (a) forget what they had done under the same sections, and (b) to try to say and purport to the public through the media something, only half of the administrative requirements, which were clarified by the Minister of Finance.

I suggest there are other sections of The Public Schools Act that have to be considered when dealing with the question raised by the member opposite. The minister obviously had that legal advice, as I said before.

Mr. Mervin Tweed (Turtle Mountain): My question goes to the Minister of Justice (Mr. Mackintosh). Does the Minister of Justice or his department have an opinion, or have they presented an opinion to Government re the issue section 28 subsection 3 of The Public Schools Act, which says basically when the Minister of Education fires a school board, he must fire all employees within that school division? Has the Minister of Justice or his department taken a position on this?

Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education, Training and Youth): Of course, as the Premier has just indicated, members opposite are quite selective in their reading and quite selective in their interpretation of not only statements made by myself, but statements made by the Provincial Auditor, statements made by school board officials, statements made by individuals, statements made by deputy ministers. It is very, very difficult in this House to give factual answers when the questions contain so many factual errors.

Again, I come back. Members opposite here, the first thing they did this afternoon is to ask for another head on a platter. This whole issue has been so replete with character assassination, innuendo in this House, personal attacks. It is unprecedented in this Chamber. We are acting in accord with the best interests of education and learners in this province.

Mr. Tweed: Again, no one from that side chooses to answer any of the questions that we put forward. My question to the Premier, simply put: Is this the standard you set for your ministers?

Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): I think it has been on three occasions now that we have said we had legal advice. That is a standard. It was followed.

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Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Mr. Speaker, throughout this whole issue we have seen that the Minister of Education has been less than forthright with us in the Chamber and with Manitobans.

Mr. Speaker, just a moment ago, the Premier said: If you do not like the way we have put the act in place, then take us to court.

Well, my question to the minister is very straightforward, and it is this: Can the minister explain why he allowed Pat MacDonald to remain a superintendent of Morris-Macdonald School Division, when in fact the act spells out very clearly that the board and the officials must be removed when the minister appoints an official trustee of a school board?

Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education, Training and Youth): Mr. Speaker, we stand by our decision to dissolve the Morris-Macdonald School Division. We stand by our decision to put into place a trustee who has wide respect across this province, if he does not from members opposite. The former mayor of Stonewall does have respect across this province as an able and capable municipal official, as well as an educator.

I have absolute confidence that Mr. Krawec will set right a situation that went woefully wrong under the guidance of members opposite.

Mr. Derkach: Well, Mr. Speaker, I think this is just an example of what my preamble was. I ask the minister why he would allow an official of the school board, the superintendent, to remain as the superintendent of the school division when, in fact, section 28(3) of the schools act says very clearly that when a board is dissolved so are the officials of that school board. That is what the act says.

Mr. Caldwell: Mr. Speaker, there have been a number of times already in the House, I think four or five already, when the statement has been made that legal advice was sought on this point, and advice backs up our decision.

Mr. Speaker, members opposite have put into place a debate that seems to advocate blood running in the streets. It is fire this person; fire that person. Resign here or resign there. This person has no integrity; that person has no integrity.

I will tell you what has no integrity, Mr. Speaker, it is an adult learning centre with tens of millions of dollars of taxpayers' money involved in it with no legislative framework backing it, no accountability provisions for fiscal management and no accountability provisions for educational programming, and that is the program designed by members opposite.

Mr. Derkach: I ask the minister one more time: Why would he allow an individual who is the superintendent of Morris-Macdonald School Division, who was reporting to her board, who was the leader of her board throughout this whole fiasco, why would he allow her to continue on as superintendent when he appoints an official trustee to take care of the affairs of that division?

Mr. Caldwell: Again, Mr. Speaker, more factual errors piled upon factual errors. In fact, Ms. MacDonald is a relatively new superintendent of the Morris-Macdonald School Division. In 1998–

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Mr. Mervin Tweed (Turtle Mountain): I am sure that the Minister of Education under Beauchesne's is provoking debate, because he just now told us that was his excuse for not firing her.

Mr. Speaker: The honourable Minister of Education and Training, on the same point of order.

Mr. Caldwell: Well, of course, Mr. Speaker, there is no point of order. I had not finished my comments.

Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker: Order. Before making a ruling, I would just like to remind all honourable members when rising on a point of order, please point out to the Speaker where the breach of the rule is or the use of unparliamentary language. I ask the co-operation of all honourable members.

On the point of order raised by the honourable Member for Turtle Mountain, he does not have a point of order. It is a dispute over the facts.

Mr. Speaker: The honourable Minister of Education and Training, to conclude his comments.

Mr. Caldwell: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said in earlier remarks and as has been said a number of times in the House, legal advice was sought in this matter. The advice backs up our action. It is very, very important to maintain and ensure stability in the public education system during very difficult times. We have an unprecedented situation in this regard, where we have a system of operation that involves tens of millions of dollars of taxpayers' money created without a legislative framework, as identified by the Provincial Auditor, and important improvements are being made under our watch.

Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, on Friday I asked the Premier whether he had been open, honest and consistent with respect to the funding of HOPE. He refused to answer the question. Instead, he said his Government's response had been consistent with that of the Auditor's report. Today, I would like to specifically address the Auditor's investigation of HOPE and Classroom 56.

The Premier will know that the audit was specifically called to investigate allegations about the operation of HOPE's project Classroom 56, not the Morris-Macdonald School Division but one ALC that is operated by the Orlikows, friends of the Premier. We have heard in this Legislature that strict new funding guidelines were in place for the school year 2001-2002. On Friday, we tabled a copy of the 2001 funding application for adult learning centres.

My question to the Premier: Were the new standards and new criteria applied in 2001-2002 school year?

Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the member will know that the Minister of Education (Mr. Caldwell) answered about the specific application, and he is able to answer those questions. The Leader of the Opposition goes on and on, and now he is making an allegation of political friends and other things that are shameful, have no reason to be in this House. There are people in organizations that have been dealt with throughout this affair without fear or favour.

The audit itself, right on the cover written by the Provincial Auditor, contradicts again the preamble of the Leader of the Opposition. It says the Morris-Macdonald School Division right on the cover of the audit.

Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, the funding of $625,000 was approved for HOPE programs in Winnipeg School Division on May 10, 2000, while HOPE was being investigated by the Provincial Auditor, among other things. I quote from page 19 of the Provincial Auditor's report: "significant problems with quality of education and administration practices in this ALC." One of the stated criteria for funding in an ALC spelled out in the minister's own document, and I quote: Demonstrated experience with the delivery of high-quality effective programs for adults.

My question to the Premier (Mr. Doer): How did HOPE qualify for funding under your own strict guidelines, when they were already being under investigation?

Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education, Training and Youth): Well, of course, Mr. Speaker, as the Premier just stated in answer to the earlier question, the audit undertaken by the Provincial Auditor of Manitoba is an audit of the operations of the Morris-Macdonald School Division.

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Incidentally, it is worth noting again in this Chamber for Manitobans that the ALC, operated by the Orlikow family under the name of Upward Bound in 1996-97 under watch of the members opposite, began their partnership with Morris-Macdonald School Division, '98-99, under the watch of the members opposite. A request for an audit of the operation was made by the department to members opposite and someone shut it down within the members opposite's ranks. Three times that audit was shut down. It took a changing government to begin to get to the bottom of an adult learning centre program in this province that had no accountability under members opposite.

Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, the Premier said in this House on November 20: "If the Auditor had stated that no improvements had been made since we took office in 1999 then questions of the minister's incompetence would be legitimate." That was his quote.

My question to the Premier is whether an inability to adhere to his own guidelines for funding is enough. Will he finally do the right thing and ask the Minister of Education to resign?

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, last week I did state and quoted the Auditor's report, pages 99 and 100, where the Auditor stated that improvements had been made to the program. It is right on the record. It is right in the Auditor's report, and I would refer those again to the Leader of the Opposition.

I also asked the Leader of the Opposition if he was wrong about fraud in the Agassiz School Division, would he resign. I am asking him today: Will he resign?

Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, the only AIDS strategy on the Government's Web site has a photo of Jim McCrae. Many in the AIDS community when they first saw this document many years ago and noted that it lacked clear goals and targets and lacked any effective action plan suggested the Tory policy then was to produce a report and not to do anything more.

My question to the Minister of Health: When will the NDP government bring forth a real AIDS strategy?

Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I am not sure where the member was last year when I went to the official opening of the Nine Circles clinic, where all of the AIDS agencies or most of the AIDS agencies involved in the delivery of service were brought together under one roof, and I think it was greatly appreciated by the community of Manitoba.

Mr. Gerrard: My supplementary to the Minister of Health. I ask the minister when he is going to act, because the number of women who have tested HIV positive this year to the end of September is 24, more than in any previous single year in the history of Manitoba. His strategy is failing. When is he going to act?

Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, this same member last week said that we did not have a diabetes strategy, when the Canadian Diabetes Association came out and gave Manitoba a "B" rating on its diabetes strategy.

The issue with respect to AIDS and an ongoing AIDS strategy is developing, when we have an AIDS strategy and we are working on an AIDS strategy. In fact, we are in the process of going after some of the more difficult areas. I look for support from the Member for River Heights and members opposite as we deal with the complex issue of dealing with AIDS with respect to difficult target populations, which includes the Aboriginal population, which includes high-risk population. I hope we have the assistance of all members of this House in dealing with this scourge.

Mr. Gerrard: My supplementary to the Minister of Health. I ask the minister: What are his plans for spending this fiscal year, and what are his targets for reducing the number of people who are HIV positive in the years ahead, year by year?

Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, I was very pleased last year (a) to announce the Nine Circles, which is a co-ordinated effort. I am very thankful that we had the participation of people in the Aboriginal community with respect to an Aboriginal AIDS strategy. I am very thankful about all of the groups and organizations that work on our AIDS strategy on an ongoing basis and the fact that we have a co-ordinator of our AIDS strategy to implement. The key issue with respect to AIDS is implementation. We continue to do that. There are additional resources going in to try to deal with this situation.

I find it very strange that one day the member is saying you are spending too much and the next day he says spend more on a process. We have a strategy, we have additional funding, and we are moving forward.

Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): On March 29, 2001, the Deputy Minister of Education requested that an audit be conducted on the program known as Classroom 56, which commenced operation in September 2000 under the watch of this minister. It was operated by the Orlikow family under the acronym HOPE.

HOPE's funding was granted in May 2000, cancelled in May 2001, reinstated in July 2001, all the time while the Auditor was conducting his review, cancelled again on October 4 and reinstated less than two weeks later.

My question to the Minister of Education is: Why did he reinstate funding two weeks after the Auditor had filed his report to an adult learning centre that the Auditor had identified as using non-certified individuals, as not providing appropriate facilities and as not providing either textbooks, supplies, or curriculum documents? Why did he reinstate their funding?

Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education, Training and Youth): Again we have a situation where a number of factual errors are put onto the record by members opposite. Of course, the salient point, I suppose, where this sad tale begins in terms of audits is 1998, a full year before we came into office.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Mr. Caldwell: A letter to Lionel Orlikow from the Deputy Minister of Education dated August 1998 indicates that the adult learning centre operation would be subject to an audit, an audit that never took place. As is cited in the Auditor's report, we have two other memos from the department making further inquiries as to why that audit was not taking place in raising flags and alarm bells, a full year before this Government came to office. We are working to restore confidence in the adult learning centres.

Mr. Loewen: I think the Minister of Education owes an answer to the people of Manitoba. I want to know what steps the minister took to insist that the Orlikows, what steps did he insist they take to clean up the mess in Classroom 56 before he recommended their funding be reinstated.

Mr. Caldwell: Again, funding was terminated with notice. I know at least some members on the benches opposite think this way because we had children in the House on Wednesday concerned about their teachers and the contractual obligations of their teachers. We on this side of the House believe in education broadly, adult learning, post-secondary education, public education. We believe in providing stability to that system. Unlike members opposite in their creation of the adult learning centre program in this province, we believe in having accountability before millions of dollars go out the door.

In the Throne Speech, we indicated that adult learning legislation would be featured this session, as it will be.

Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): If this minister believes so heavily in audits and accountability, why did he insist that Agassiz School Division shut down their audit of their ALCs just because it was going to prove him wrong?

* (14:30)

Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education, Training and Youth): Mr. Speaker, factual error on factual error again. This Government treated the Morris-Macdonald School Division and Agassiz School Division equally. We continue to have concerns about the stability of the learning environment for learners as we transition from a program with no accountability, which the people of the province of Manitoba have been burdened with these past years, to a system that has accountability as a central feature, including legislation that will be tabled this session.

Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): In the spirit of co-operation, which we always hear our Premier (Mr. Doer) speaking of in this House, I would like to ask my question of the Attorney General. Seeing as it has been approximately a year and a half since we have had Public Accounts and we have had discussions about it coming, and in the spirit of co-operation and seeing that this House is probably coming to an end by the sixth of this month, I am wondering if the House Leader could give us a date on when the Public Accounts Committee will be called.

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): I look forward to having some discussions with the member opposite. We can set some scheduling in place for the coming weeks and months.

Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): On a new question, I was wondering if the House Leader could assist me. I am looking forward to when the Public Accounts Committee comes forward in moving a motion that would bring forward witnesses. Will the minister support us on that initiative?

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): The member knows of course that there are discussions that have begun and must move to conclusion on strengthening the public accounts process in Manitoba. We are very anxious to put in place better checks and balances and a more effective committee system with regard to public accounts, and I look forward, I am sure the member knows that, to discussing with him how we should move ahead with that process.

Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): One final new question. There is a very big urgency here in this matter of bringing forward the public accounts. Seeing as this House is coming to an end on the sixth, and we expect a very early shuffle of this Minister of Education (Mr. Caldwell), can we have a guarantee that we will have a call of this committee by the middle of next week?

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): I am surprised the member would have the nerve to ask that question because, as I recall, when we were in opposition asking for public accounts there was no Public Accounts Committee meeting held month after month, I believe year after year. We do not intend as a government to have that kind of delay in calling the Public Accounts Committee.

Mr. Speaker: The time for Oral Questions has expired.

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin-Roblin): I rise before you today to speak about the Winnipeg Blue Bombers Football Club which has experienced a remarkable season and entered the Grey Cup in Montreal for the first time in eight years. The Blue Bombers regular season play has proven to be a great success with 14 wins and only 4 losses, a reflection of the team's dedication and hard work.

At the conclusion of the 2001 regular season, the Bombers held a commanding lead of the Eastern Division with 28 points and led the league in both points for and against. The Blue Bombers' league-leading finish is all the more exceptional when compared to the CFL team standings. With a season of 14 and 4, the Bombers finished well ahead of the second-best team in the Eastern Division, the Hamilton Tiger-Cats, who completed the season with an 11 and 7 record; moreover, compared to the final standings of the Calgary Stampeders, who finished the season with a significantly weaker record of only 8 wins and 10 losses.

The Eastern Division final game against the Hamilton Tiger-Cats was a true display of Winnipeg's strong offence and defence who stopped quarterback Danny McManus twice from the one-yard line and secured the win with Juran Bolden's interception return and touchdown for a 28-13 victory.

Further to the team's success, four of the five 2001 Eastern Division most outstanding player award-winners were Winnipeg Blue Bombers, including Khari Jones, Dave Mudge, Doug Brown and Charles Roberts. The Winnipeg Blue Bombers have also tied the franchise record for the most consecutive wins in a single season and have a number of top 10 placings in the league, including first in wins, fewest points against and punt return touchdowns.

Yesterday at Montreal's Olympic Stadium, to the second-largest Grey Cup crowd in history, Mr. Speaker, the two teams put on a spectacular game and added to the excitement with a close finish which saw the Stampeders edge out the Bombers, thanks to a blocked punt.

Some other key plays of the final included a near impossible catch by Milt Stegall from Khari Jones in the second half, a Bomber 62-yard drive in the first half and Marcus Crandell's 309 yards passing.

It is with great pride that I rise before the Legislature to congratulate the Winnipeg Blue Bombers on a great season. Thank you.

Mrs. Joy Smith (Fort Garry): Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to rise today to announce that the Winnipeg Police Service's gang unit has been nationally recognized for outstanding achievement in their efforts against organized crime. This past Thursday, gang unit co-ordinator, Sgt. Rick Lobban was awarded the Mark of Excellence Award by the Criminal Intelligence Service of Canada at a ceremony in Ottawa. The award is in recognition of the gang unit's efforts in Operation Snow, which took place in November of 1998.

Mr. Speaker, Operation Snow was a highly successful series of raids intended to cripple the criminal operations of the Manitoba Warriors. One hundred and twenty police officers were directly involved with this initiative and as a result of their efforts, 33 Manitoba Warriors members and 15 of their associates were charged with a total of 142 criminal charges, including drug trafficking, weapons possession, fraud, conspiracy and prostitution. I may add that that was under the watch of the members on this side of the House.

Operation Snow was an excellent example of outstanding police work and one of the first tests of new anti-gang legislation in Canada. The Winnipeg Police Service has a long history of excellence and now this achievement can be added to that list. Having members of the Winnipeg Police Service nationally recognized is truly an honour. These men and women risk their lives everyday to serve their community and work hard to keep us safe.

On behalf of all the members of this Legislature, I would like to commend Sgt. Rick Lobban and the gang unit of the Winnipeg Police Service for their tireless efforts to keep the streets of Winnipeg safe and also to congratulate them for winning this prestigious award. I must add, Mr. Speaker, that this award was merited under the watch of members on this side of the House, 1998, and that is an astounding achievement nationally. Thank you.

Ms. Linda Asper (Riel): Mr. Speaker, on September 29-30, 2001, St. Mary Magdalene Anglican Church celebrated 75 years serving the community in Riel. Bea Montgomery and Betty Cobb co-chaired the anniversary committee that planned a memorable weekend.

At the seniors tea, guests from all over Canada reunited to reminisce. The anniversary dinner brought more than 200 people together to share an evening of entertainment, including the Seniors' Choir, the Men's Club, the Prayer Quads, the Altar Guild and the Wednesday Bible Study Group.

William Birtles, retired teacher, wrote a short history of the church for the celebration. His book deals with social and cultural change in the church and the community, with interviews of people such as Shirley Elcomb, whose father, Fritz Munn, was the architect for the new church in the '60s. Bill also wrote about topics like the increasing role of women in the church, sponsoring African and Albanian refugees and supporting Winnipeg Harvest.

I was delighted at the banquet to present the 75th anniversary committee with a miniature Red River cart to honour the occasion. Congratulations to Bea, Betty and all the committee members for their hard work, to Bill for his interesting book, and to Reverend Bob Webster and Brian Crow for their leadership in the community. May they all continue to contribute to our residents in Riel. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to rise today and to share with this House the accomplishments of Mr. Dale Gislason, a fellow resident of Winkler. Mr. Gislason will serve as the chair and CEO of CGA Canada for 2001-2002. That is a certified general accountant.

Mr. Gislason and his wife, Bernice, moved to Winkler in 1980 when Hermiston, Brent and Company asked him to head up their newest branch. He discovered the firm had very few clients and made networking and building a client base his No. 1 priority. Upon receiving his CGA designation in 1983, Mr. Gislason became a partner in the firm. In 1993, Mr. Gislason, Mr. Ernest Peters, and Mr. Saul Targownik bought out any remaining Hermiston partners and renamed the firm Gislason, Targownik, Peters Certified General Accountants. It went on to become the largest accounting practice and only CGA firm in Winkler, with 15 staff in Winkler and 11 more spread out throughout Winnipeg, Altona and Carman.

This 41-year-old husband and father of three has been a member of the CGA-Canada's board of directors since 1998, having served as first and second vice-chair and also chaired the national education committee, a professional affairs committee, the international strategy task force and the degree task force.

He was a member of the nominations committee and the working group on the internationalization of the syllabus for international markets. He was awarded the FCGA designation in 1997. A large part of Mr. Gislason's success is his focus on honest communication with clients.

On behalf of the citizens of Winkler, the people of Pembina constituency and the members of this Legislature, I would like to congratulate Mr. Gislason on his accomplishments and belief in ethical business practices and wish him continued success.

I should also add that those interested in finding out more about Mr. Dale Gislason can read about him in the November-December 2001 edition of the CGA magazine. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Cris Aglugub (The Maples): I rise today to tell the Legislative Assembly about a new and exciting development in my constituency.

There is an extensive system of trails in the process of being built in the Seven Oaks area. These paths will highlight sites of interest in the area and will promote the health of local residents by providing a safe public place for walking, running and cycling.

Seven Oaks path will have kilometre markers for users to keep track of distances. There will be benches, play structures, washrooms and emergency phones along the 60-kilometre path for the comfort and safety of those using them.

I commend the hard work that has been done to date by the diverse group of organizers. The project has been made possible by more than 35 committee members, who have worked over 640 volunteer hours themselves as of October 31.

The community sponsors of this project include: the Maples Youth Activity Centre, the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Manitoba and West Kildonan Residents Association. It is heartwarming to see so many groups working in partnership on such a worthy community undertaking.

In addition to improving the health of citizens, these trails will strengthen community bonds and thus create safer neighbourhoods. Further, the co-operation between private and public sectors makes for a project that all can be proud of.

The trail is due to be opened on Canada Day, 2002, and will be celebrated with a community walk, fireworks and other celebrations. I urge members of the Assembly to take advantage of such trails, for they are ideal ways to commute and improve personal well-being. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I am rising under rule 2.(7), which permits the Government House Leader to interrupt the debate on the address in reply to the Speech from the Throne for up to three days to call government business. I am interrupting the debate to deal with second reading of Bill 4, The Order of Manitoba Amendment Act. I would also seek leave of the House to deal with Bill 8, The Limitation of Actions Amendment Act, for second reading, as that bill is not listed on the Order Paper for second reading yet, although it has been distributed.

Therefore, I would ask that, under Orders of the Day, Bill 4 be called for second reading debate and that leave of the House be sought to deal with second reading of Bill 8.

Mr. Speaker: We will be dealing with Bill 4, The Order of Manitoba Amendment Act. There is leave required to deal with Bill 8, The Limitation of Actions Amendment Act. Is there leave to deal with Bill 8 later? Is there leave? [Agreed]

Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): I move, seconded by the Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk), that Bill 4, The Order of Manitoba Amendment Act, Loi modifiant la Loi sur l'Ordre du Manitoba, be now read a second time and referred to a committee of the House.

Mr. Doer: Well, thank you very much and thanks to members of the Chamber. This bill provides for the Order of Manitoba to be awarded to more citizens each year. It would increase the number of people who are able to be awarded this Order of Manitoba. It would move from eight, which is the present limit, to twelve.

This is in keeping with the overwhelming number of deserving Manitobans who have been nominated for this honour. We have an abundance of worthy Manitobans who have made outstanding contributions to the social, cultural and economic fabric of this province.

It has been difficult, according to the nominating committee which is a non-partisan committee, to limit the award to just eight recipients each year. Since the Order was created two years ago, several hundred Manitobans have been nominated for membership. According to the committee, many, many Manitobans are worthy of this honour, yet with the limit of eight people have not been able to receive this award.

The Order of Manitoba was established by my predecessor, the Honourable Gary Filmon. It was supported by our side of the House when it was brought in in 1999, Mr. Speaker. I want to congratulate my predecessor for this award. I have to say that in working with the Lieutenant-Governor and others who are responsible for the implementation and the selection and the medal and all the other kinds of considerations that have to be taken after the bill was passed in 1999, that we have found that this award, through the people who have received it, has been considered to be quite prestigious. They are quite honoured. They are honoured not only that they receive the award, but their families are able to be invited to the awards ceremonies and are able to celebrate the success of their loved ones and their family members in the Order.

The last year's honorees, I think, are an excellent example of the quality and diversity of people in our province. Last year, the individual award winners were Lloyd Axworthy, Clarence Barber, Heather Bishop, Mr. Colomb, Mr. Gary Filmon, Ms. Carol Shields, Mrs. Gwendolyn Wishart and Mr. Richard Martin. Regrettably, Mr. Speaker, I am sure members in this House know that Richard Martin, Dick Martin, passed away since he received the award in June 2001. I know on behalf of the family, and on behalf of Mr. Martin, that he was very moved to be receiving this award with the wonderful other applicants who have received this award.

Mr. Speaker, the one real emotion I have when I have been able to participate with these award recipients, and the event that is held in the Legislature and then following that in the Lieutenant-Governor's residence, is the diversity of backgrounds and the inclusive nature that the selection committee has used to ensure that there is a variety of people from business, labour, government, from social movements, from literary movements, from cultural movements, from artistic movements, who have received the award.

I think it is very, very appropriate that this province of Manitoba that prides itself in citizenship and volunteerism is able to award people who have given so much to the rest of us in the name of the people of this province.

Mr. Speaker, as I have said, this is the highest award that this province can bestow on its citizens. Those invested in the Order are members for life. They may wear the insignia of the Order on special occasions. The eligibility includes any Canadian citizen who is a current citizen of this province or has been a long-time resident of Manitoba can be nominated for membership in the Order. People who already exist in office cannot be nominated. Posthumous nominations are not accepted, except where a nominee dies after being recommended by the council. Only individuals can be nominated, not groups or organizations.

* (14:50)

Mr. Speaker, we have had recipients from agriculture, business, industry, volunteer, education, research, literary, visual and performing arts, occupational professional achievement, public and community services. This is a special way of honouring our individuals in Manitoba that are respected and admired by their fellow citizens for the contributions they make to this province.

We also have established an advisory council to ensure that the people that are making the decisions or the recommendations are people from all walks of life and that will also consider people from all walks of life. The Order of Manitoba advisory council includes the Chief Judge of Manitoba, Clerk of the Executive Council, the president of the University of Manitoba, Brandon and University of Winnipeg. That means that we have truly a non-partisan organization to make these decisions and make these recommendations. The advisory council itself was the body that recommended that we the Legislature expand the list from eight to twelve. They felt with the hundreds of nominees or proposed applicants each year that we are the ones that should expand the list.

I mentioned already the recipients from last year. I would like to go on the record and mention the first citation awards, the first 24, which is also in the legislation, that received the award: the Right Honourable Edward Schreyer, the Honourable John McKeag, the Honourable Pearl McGonigal, the Honourable Duff Roblin, the Honourable Howard Pawley, Israel Asper, Robert Beamish, James Daly, Reg Forbes, Edwin Jebb, Sol Kanee, Mary Kelekis, Sue Lambert, Leo Mol, the Honourable Alfred Monnin, William Norrie, David Northcott, Pam Rebello, Strini Reddy, Mary Richard, George Richardson, Roger Smith, Arnold Spohr, Baldur Stefansson and Bramwell Tovey.

An Honourable Member: Burton Cummings got it. Burton got it too.

Mr. Doer: You are absolutely correct. Burton was on the list from the first year and was–[interjection] Yes, I mentioned those. Burton Cummings was indeed given the nomination award in 1999-2000 for the 2000 recipient year, and because he was out of town performing he received his award, as I said, in the year 2001. Of course, anyone that is part of repatriating Salisbury House from its ownership from Québec to Manitoba is indeed a worthy recipient of the Order of Manitoba, notwithstanding all his international fame for his wonderful music and, I might add on a personal note, a great, great supporter of goldeye and the unique nature of the goldeye fish and the need to conserve the goldeye for our wonderful consumption here in Manitoba.

So, Mr. Speaker, I recommend Bill 4 to the Chamber, and I applaud my predecessor who brought in the original Order of Manitoba. This just builds on the work of the Legislature that was conducted in 1999 and allows more Manitobans to receive this award that pays tribute to their talent and their merit to the people of Manitoba.

Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (St. Norbert): I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Lakeside (Mr. Enns), that debate be now adjourned.

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, by leave, I move, seconded by the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. Robinson), that Bill 8, The Limitation of Actions Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur la prescription, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House.

Mr. Mackintosh: I am pleased today to have been able to move first reading, have distribution of the bill and now, by leave, have second reading of this legislation which we place some urgency on and some importance on. Essentially, this bill will eliminate certain limitation periods in the civil law, allowing people to file their claims and proceed to justice when they are alleging victimization from sexual assault, including incest, as well as physical assault when it occurred in an intimate or dependent relationship such as instances of child or spousal abuse or abuse by a person or institution, for that matter, of authority.

Mr. Speaker, a recent decision of the Manitoba courts, in this case in the Manitoba Court of Appeal, the decision of Mohr, has determined that the current Limitation of Actions Act of Manitoba precludes many, indeed perhaps most, claims of what are called historical, sexual or physical abuse, including claims arising out of child abuse in institutions and by implication from incest. This determination has been made on the basis of the unique language and earlier interpretations of Manitoba's Limitation of Actions Act, which is a very complicated piece of legislation and appears to be different from the legislation and the case law that has developed in other Canadian provinces.

Under the current Manitoba legislation, claims based on assault of any character must be filed within two years after the cause of action arose. Under Manitoba law, a cause of action arises when all the facts of the material character relating to the claim have occurred. The time period does not arise during the time in which a person was a minor or under legal disability. The current Manitoba legislation also provides a window for a person to apply to extend the limitation period, but only where an application is made to court not more than 12 months after the date on which the applicant first knew or, in all of the circumstances of the case, ought to have known of all the material facts of a decisive character upon which the action is based.

In effect, Mr. Speaker, for an assault that occurred when the plaintiff was a minor, the plaintiff must, in most cases, apparently bring an assault claim within two years of becoming 18 years old. It is now recognized professionally and indeed in the courts, including at the Supreme Court of Canada, that very often victims of abuse will not be able psychologically to initiate legal actions until they develop an awareness of the psychological harm that they have suffered and the cause of that harm being the act of abuse. In many cases, this realization does not occur until many years after the harm, often after the person receives therapy. It is very likely that this realization would not occur until long after the current limitation period had expired. Therefore, the claims of these persons would be barred before they were capable of instituting the claim. Therefore, strict limitation periods will often work an injustice to victims of abuse.

The Supreme Court of Canada, in 1992, in a landmark case, recognized that the policy basis for strict limitation periods does not apply to abuse cases and sexual abuse as it would do to other civil cases where the plaintiff is not subject to the psychological effects of the abuse. The court described the reasons as: first, the damages often remain latent until the victim is well into adulthood; second, when the damages begin to become apparent, the causal relationship between the activity and present psychological injuries are often unknown to the victim; third, a limitation period will not be an incentive to prosecute an action for a victim of abuse if they have been psychologically incapable of recognizing that a cause of action exists; and, finally, these issues exist in the social context that has discouraged these cases from coming to the fore.

The Supreme Court of Canada and the Manitoba Court of Appeal now have both expressed the view that deficiencies in limitations legislation should be addressed through legislative amendment. Indeed, Mr. Speaker, we accept that this is a matter within the realm of public policy and an important area of public policy.

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This legislation, Mr. Speaker, will achieve two main objectives. First, it will provide that claims will not be precluded by a limitation period if they result from either assault of a sexual nature or other assault in circumstances where, at the time of the assault, the person bringing the action had an intimate relationship with the person alleged to have committed the assault or the person was financially, emotionally, physically or otherwise dependent on one of the persons alleged to have committed the assault; second, it will address what the Manitoba Court of Appeal called a gap in the current legislation. Currently, there is an ultimate limitation period for claims that arose while the person was a minor or otherwise under a legal disability of 30 years after the occurrence of the act or omission that gave rise to the cause of action. This ultimate limitation period does not apply if the claim arose while the person was an adult or otherwise not under a disability. This ultimate limitation applies even if the specific limitation period is based on discovery of the cause of action. The effect is that the current legislation would prevent certain types of claims, for example, breach of a fiduciary duty or other claims on equitable grounds that have a general six-year limitation period from the discovery of the cause of action from proceeding if the claim arose when the plaintiff was an adult but not if the claim arose when the person was a minor, such as a school student.

This amendment, Mr. Speaker, will bring Manitoba more in line with other provinces so that cases of assault in institutional settings or within relationships of intimacy or dependency would not be precluded by a strict limitation period. This limitation, in my view, is accurately construed as a technicality. We do not think that such a serious allegation as child abuse should be barred from being pursued in the courts of justice or in alternative dispute resolution processes based on such a technicality.

Limitation acts, of course, Mr. Speaker, differ somewhat in each province, but this amendment will allow claims to proceed that would be precluded right now only in Manitoba. I think for us to sit by while claimants in Ontario or Saskatchewan, for example, are being dealt with but here in Manitoba they are being barred, clearly, I think, calls on the Legislature to act.

Overall, this amendment is closest, in fact nearly identical, to the amendment in Saskatchewan which was passed by that Legislature in 1993. The then-Attorney General of Saskatchewan, the Honourable Bob Mitchell, said in debate in support of the Saskatchewan legislation: I am confident that the amendments proposed today will empower many victims of sexual assault, and spousal assault in particular, to take action to hold their assailants responsible for the damage inflicted on them. The reality, in so many cases, is that the victims of a sexual assault, in particular that happens at an early age, will block that memory out as children and not have it in their conscious memory as they grow older. Only when they are in adulthood, when they are undergoing therapy in respect of all the problems that they are having with life, do they discover that the real source of their problem is something that occurred while they were children, end of quote.

Mr. Speaker, this is a very narrow amendment designed to address the circumstances in which strict limitation periods may create an injustice because of the inability of persons to advance their claims due to their psychological condition. Limitation periods in respect of all other matters remain unaffected. This legislation only provides that persons bringing a claim will be entitled to have their claims considered on their merits. The legislation does not change the requirement of a claimant to be able to prove a case in court. Indeed, we recognize the difficulty of claimants proving cases that are based on incidents that occurred many, many years ago. We also recognize that there is in place in the civil law of this country and in the rules of court checks and balances to guard against prejudice to a defendant who has to reply to claims based on incidents of years ago.

The Government and the Legislative Assembly have no role, though, in determining the merits of particular cases. This is not about who should win or who should lose or what the strength of cases may be in certain circumstances. This is simply to allow individuals to pursue justice and to pursue having their day in court or their claim dealt with in an alternative dispute resolution process. The substantive law relating to assault cases is therefore, of course, unaffected by this legislation.

This legislation will affect many of the cases relating to residential schools in Manitoba but is not limited to residential schools cases. In fact, Mr. Speaker, the Province may have some increased liability, because, after all, it is the Province that has historically run such institutions as child welfare institutions, special needs institutions, for example, mental health facilities. I think of other institutions for those who are disabled from deafness, for example, or have intellectual disabilities. Indeed, reformatories as well have been run by the Province, and the Province is responsible for foster care in this province.

On the residential schools issues, though, that are certainly a current matter of concern in this province, we understand that there are about 800 residential schools plaintiffs with cases in the system in Manitoba. If this law is not revised, most of those cases, it appears, would be prevented from proceeding in the courts while they would very likely be allowed to proceed if they occurred, for example, in the province of Saskatchewan.

The Government is hopeful that the change in these limitation rules will assist parties now in pursuing more appropriate resolution and reconciliation, will allow the parties now to turn from focusing on this technicality and get on and deal with the merits of the case and the need for healing. The Government of Canada has agreed to pay 70 percent of compensation found to be owed jointly by the federal government and church organizations to those who allege sexual or physical abuse at residential schools. The federal government is involved in several alternative dispute resolution processes to attempt to reach settlement with residential school survivors. Many of those cases in Manitoba have not yet been settled, at least in part due, I think, to the consideration of issues relating to limitation periods.

Mr. Speaker, I urge the timely if not expeditious consideration of this matter in the Legislative Assembly, and I look forward to seeing this matter proceed. Thank you.

Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): I, seconded by the Member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer), would stand the debate on this bill.

Mr. Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Member for Arthur-Virden, seconded by the honourable Member for Gimli, that debate be adjourned. Agreed?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Mr. Speaker: Agreed and so ordered.

Mr. Speaker: Resumed debate on the proposed motion of the honourable Member for Flin-Flon (Mr. Jennissen). The debate remains open.

Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): I appreciate the opportunity to be able to say a few things about the Throne Speech. First of all, I find it very unusual that on our motion of the first day that the Government would not support the motion, that it would not come to a vote. Really the motion was about telling the world and Americans, really, that we in Manitoba are behind the United States in their efforts and their fight against terrorism, and yet this Government would not allow this to come to a vote.

I find that very unusual and very disturbing because we have to support our neighbours to the south and especially in our fight against terrorism, because this is not only a one-country thing. It is a world situation that we are in. It is a world fight against terrorism. It is not only Canada or the United States. It is so important, I believe, that we should stand behind our allies in the fight against terrorism.

I find it very unusual and I cannot see why they would not allow this to come to a vote and support this 100 percent in the Manitoba Legislature.

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Anyway, there are a number of issues that came up in the Throne Speech and that some of the other members talked about. Of course, I think in the Throne Speech they talked about flood protection for Winnipeg. Well, I think the expansion of the floodway is important to Manitobans, and it is important to Winnipeg. I think flood protection for the city of Winnipeg, a city of some 600 000, 700 000 people, is very important.

The study done by the KGS group recommends two different options of how flood protection can take place. One is, of course, the expansion of the floodway, making it deeper and wider to increase the flow by more than doubling the capacity of the floodway.

Well, there are some problems with that. I certainly support the fact we have to protect the city of Winnipeg from flooding, but there is a problem where the floodway releases the water into the Red River. In the report it says modifications to the floodway outlet structure to permit the conveyance of more water. Well this is fine. Forcing that water in the Red River from there to the lake runs through my constituency. It runs through the town of Selkirk. Where is that water going to go? How are we going to increase the flow of the Red River from Selkirk, or from where it comes in at Lockport to the lake? That is where the problems are. Just in this week's Selkirk Journal, there is an article regarding the mayor of the city of Selkirk. Bud Oliver even concedes that the flood protection for Winnipeg is fine, but you have to consider the consequences downstream from where it comes into the Red River. He admits that we have to have a level playing field, but we want to be treated the same as everyone else in Manitoba. We want this floodway to protect us north of Lockport or north of the city as much as we should protect the city of Winnipeg.

So I think the mayor of Selkirk and also the reeve of the Rural Municipality of St. Clements, including the reeve of West St. Paul, are all consistent, I believe. They do believe we need protection, but we have to be treated fairly north of Winnipeg so that we have the protection that they have in Winnipeg. So, if they can change the floodway to increase their capacity, they have to increase their capacity from where it comes into the river at Lockport and north right through the lake. Whether that is done through dredging or increasing their capacity of the river or however, that has to be recognized and addressed.

The report also said that there is a need to further analyze and predict the potential hydraulic effects of the expanded floodway on the areas north of Winnipeg, but it does not go any further than that. It stops right there. It does not say how they are going to do this. They say now we are going to have an all-party committee and going to hold hearings. This is fine, but this does not outline how we are going to stop the flooding, how we are going to stop the damage done on the Red River and including the town of Selkirk and the R.M. of St. Andrews.

If we look back to 1997, when we had the flood of the century, the damage done there, especially to the Red River, of where the outlet of the floodway comes into the Red River, there was a lot of damage done, a lot of erosion done on the west side of the river, and this was because of the terrific flow that comes down that floodway, the damage done there. So we, through the Department of Natural Resources at that time, under our ministry, did help St. Andrews to shore up the road, the river road, to help the riverbank stabilization, but since then, there has been a lot more erosion. This Minister of Conservation (Mr. Lathlin) has not done enough to help St. Andrews to provide the stabilization that is necessary there at the riverbank to stop the erosion of the riverbank there, and because of the increased flow coming, it is going to be much more serious. That has to be addressed.

When we do have hearings during that time, when we do have the hearings on the floodway expansion project, certainly I am sure that a number of my constituents and a number of constituents from the city of Selkirk and those north of Selkirk will certainly make their ideas known as to how that can be dealt with.

Another issue I want to deal with, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is the fact that a number of municipalities north of Winnipeg or the city of Selkirk and the rural municipality of St. Andrews, they are looking at an eastern Interlake recycling co-op. This was started by some 21 Interlake municipalities. When we were the government, we funded the study as to how they could come up with a gasification plan, and a plan to help with recycling and to do away with the number of landfill sites that we have in the Interlake area. When they first started, they had 21 municipalities involved. I believe now they are down to 16 municipalities. Some have backed out.

But it still is a very major issue in the Interlake. I think the committee has done a great job, and the work that they have done and the study they have done to come up with a project that would help the environment and would do away with a number of landfill sites.

Just then again, in this week's paper, they talk about the Eriksdale dump as a potential hazard to health. No one wants a landfill site or dumps, if you want to call them that, nobody wants them in their backyard. If you have started to look for an area to build a landfill site nowadays, it is almost impossible. Although St. Clements has one on the east side of the river, it still is controversial, and it is a controversial item throughout Interlake.

Here was a group of municipalities trying to do the right thing. They have come up with a plan. They worked together. They came up with a plan, and we were funding them to get this plan done, and now this Government, provincial government and this federal government, especially in Ottawa, will do nothing to help them continue and build this thing to help with the environment and to do away with the landfill sites and make one central recycling depot just outside of the city of Selkirk. That would handle the whole Interlake, but this Government plus the federal government in Ottawa have done nothing at all. They turned down the infrastructure application to get this done.

I find this unusual, and I would hope that this Government, provincially, and our Minister of Conservation (Mr. Lathlin) would take it on to help the eastern Interlake recycling co-op and get this thing underway, and then we could help protect the environment and be able to close some of the landfill sites in the area whereby already they are hazards. Certainly, before they damage the water supply in the Interlake area and north of Winnipeg, it is important that this recycling project get underway, and the fact that every municipality was involved and still 16 municipalities, which is a fair representation of the whole Interlake. It includes the city of Selkirk, Rural Municipality of St. Andrews, the town and the arm of Gimli, Selkirk, Springfield, some of the bigger populated municipalities. It is important that this thing get off the ground and to get going as soon as possible.

I just want to say a few things about the health care system in the Interlake region. We had a hospital approved when we were in government. We approved the construction of a hospital, about a $13-million project in the Gimli area. The Kinsmen Club of Gimli took on the project of raising 10 percent of the funds so that the local community could come up with 10 percent of the funds to get the project underway. They have already done that.

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They have just done a terrific job on fund raising. I believe they have raised close to a million dollars already, so they virtually, with the land values, I believe have their 10 percent of the project already done. Plus there are other organizations that have come forward to help fund some of the amenities of the hospital.

I could go on and on about this, about how important this hospital is to Gimli and the Interlake, and we certainly hope this minister approves of this capital project and gets it underway, because it was approved by our former Minister of Health. The Honourable Eric Stefanson and myself were out in Gimli and turned the sod on this project, and because of the importance and the need, I would hope that this Government and this minister approve this capital as soon as possible.

That is only one of the items in the Interlake Regional Health Authority that is important. That is a major capital project. There are others that we hope would get the nod. As an example, I think there was a 20-bed expansion of the personal care home in Teulon that certainly needs to be extended. That was recognized as one of the first areas of priority by the Interlake Regional Health Authority, and I would hope that that project also gets the go-ahead as a capital project because it is very important. There again, that community already has the 10 percent of the money waiting and ready to go. If the Government would come up with their portion of it, this project could move ahead also.

We also, a number of years ago, started the dialysis program in Selkirk at the Selkirk General Hospital in the city of Selkirk. That is a very good program. It is doing very well, I understand, and I am glad to see that it is up and running. The Member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar) and I were there last year for their grand opening. It is up and running, and it is doing a great job. It certainly helps the local population if they do not have to come into Winnipeg for dialysis anymore, and that is an improvement to health care in the Interlake region.

I just want to talk about the highway situation a little bit and the drainage in the Interlake region. Actually, I should say that I am glad to see the improvements that were made to some of the highways in the Interlake this year, especially Highway 8, Highway 7 in the Interlake constituency north of my constituency. These are improvements that we certainly appreciate and hope that we will be able to continue Highway 8, especially all the way up to Hecla, and widen that road. Hopefully, next year that project can be extended and we could move further north on that.

The one highway that I have most concern with is Highway 9 between the city of Selkirk and Winnipeg. In the Throne Speech, the Lieutenant-Governor did not mention anything about what this Government is doing for highway construction. Actually, I believe they have cut the capital for highways. They did last year, and they probably do not intend to expand that capital, but I have one of the most dangerous highways in Manitoba in my constituency. That is Highway 9 from Selkirk to Winnipeg. The problem is it is busy. A lot of people live along that road that work in Winnipeg, and they have to travel on that road every day. There are school buses on that highway. It is narrow, there are no shoulders, plus there is no median. Even though it is four lane, there is no median there in the centre. The problem of where the accidents happen is where people are turning left across their lane where they have to stop. It seems that creates a real hazard. It is a problem that there are a lot of accidents on that road, a dangerous highway to drive on, and it certainly needs upgrading.

I am not sure exactly how it can be made safer, and what all has to be done, but certainly the department of highways, I have been trying to get the minister to do a study there, to come up with a plan that would make that highway safer. One of the things that has to be done, it has to be a divided highway and you have to have a median down the centre with proper turn lanes. Plus where streets cross, something has to be done to identify those areas to make sure that it is safe for school buses and for the residents of St. Andrews and West St. Paul and everybody along the highway.

Over the years the area has expanded to such an extent and the growth in that area created the traffic that we have there, and it is certainly necessary, now that there has been nothing done on it for many, many years, it is absolutely imperative that our minister look at that highway and try to get something done on that as soon as possible.

I want to also mention that in the last two years, I have introduced a bill in this Legislature to try to change the name of my constituency from Gimli to Gimli-St. Andrews. Both years the Government would not approve of this change. The reason I have done this, I had requests from people in St. Andrews, I had motions from most of the municipalities involved that it is important that this name should be Gimli-St. Andrews. The municipality of St. Andrews actually is the largest municipality in my constituency, and therefore it is important that we try to change the name and better depict the make-up of the constituency. There is some history also behind this. We did have at one time in the Manitoba Legislature, there was a constituency of St. Andrews, so I see nothing wrong with having a double name such as Gimli-St. Andrews to better depict how the make-up of the whole constituency is, because it represents right from the city of Winnipeg here, West St. Paul, St. Andrews, Winnipeg Beach and town and R.M. of Gimli, so the name Gimli-St. Andrews would better depict the whole area and give people an understanding of what area is represented.

Just to give you an example of how important that is, this morning you noticed that we had a school from Lockport here with some 75 students. I did meet them and talked to them a little bit about the constituency of Gimli, and they said: Why are we in the constituency of Gimli? They live in St. Andrews. Why are they in the constituency of Gimli? Well, it is how the boundaries were drawn up. Every 10 years, I explained, that we have a review of the boundaries. The last time it was done in '97 or '98, and it changed the boundary of the Gimli constituency, but it did not change the name or take into consideration the importance of St. Andrews to the new constituency.

It is difficult for those people in St. Andrews to realize why they would be in the constituency of Gimli, although they are, so I think it is important that we do change the name there.

Just a couple of things on agriculture, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that I want to talk about. One that is very important is the drainage factor and the fact that we need to make it easier for municipalities and farmers to be able to drain their fields, improve the ditching and improve the drainage, especially in the Interlake area. We have a real problem, and this past summer as you know, even though we have had a dry spell since the first of August, prior to that, we were very wet. In the beginning part of August there, we had a very large rain, some 6, 7 inches, and it did create a real problem for farmers in the Interlake area, especially some parts of St. Andrews and Rockwood and including West St. Paul.

The problem now, at one time, farmers and municipalities were allowed to improve drains providing they did not make a cut more than 6 inches. Well, the Minister of Conservation (Mr. Lathlin), through his department there, has taken that away from municipalities, and now they do not have that option anymore, where they can improve drains by small cuts. I would hope that the minister would look at this provision and make some changes to give municipalities some leeway whereby they can improve the drainage in their own ditches, and it would also help farmers to drain their fields. Whenever they can do this, it will help to increase production. Also, when we do have large rains, this water can get off the fields.

It is important that the soil and water management, through the Department of Conservation, look at this very soon and give municipalities and farmers the right to be able to drain their fields and improve their drainage.

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Something that happened in the past year that certainly was of great importance to many communities in my area and the Interlake area, where the provision of natural gas or the extension of natural gas lines was extended into the rural municipality of Rockwood, into Teulon, Arborg, and some parts of Woodlands, Warren. All these areas are now served by natural gas. This is important, especially now that natural gas prices have come down to where they were a couple of years ago. They do provide a cheaper source of energy, especially for some of the industries that we have such as poultry, goose processing, Northern Goose Processors, which has now switched to natural gas and saving considerable money. Plus it will give us the opportunity to bring new industries into the communities there that were not served before, to be able to improve their operation and make it more viable for them to operate, especially one such industry as the hay operation that is located in Rockwood there that needs natural gas to be able to provide the needed energy to dry some of the hay down.

So it is important that this gas was installed. I think it was an excellent project, and I am glad that our Government plus the federal government were able to supply some of the funding through the infrastructure program to help natural gas go into these areas. So I think that was certainly a good addition, and that will help everybody, including agriculture.

One thing that I am concerned with, with this Government, is their labour laws, of course. The NDP government of Saskatchewan is pressing ahead with plans to change its labour laws, imposing industrial labour standards on large-scale livestock and hog operations. This would be certainly detrimental if this were to ever happen in Manitoba because our farmers could not then have the flexibility to build and operate hog barns. So I hope that our Government here in Manitoba does not look at changing, look at Saskatchewan's laws there and try to change the labour standards act to include hog barns and intensive large-scale livestock operations. This is very important. Unfortunately, this will probably end the expansion of hog operations, hog farms in Saskatchewan if they do that. So I just hope that this does not happen in Manitoba.

Also, in the Throne Speech they do not talk about agriculture very much. They talk a little bit about rural development for a change. They finally have come to the realization that there is life outside of the Perimeter Highway and that we need some development in rural Manitoba. There are many ways that could be done, and I would hope that through the infrastructure program we could help municipalities improve their infrastructure, highways, drainage. There are many projects out there that were turned down in this last go-around. I would hope that before too long, when the next approvals come up for the infrastructure program, some of the projects that have been recommended by the municipalities would certainly get the approval.

Before I adjourn, I just want to congratulate our new pages and the interns who are with us for this session. I also want to congratulate our Member for Tuxedo (Mrs. Stefanson) and her husband, Jason, on the birth of a baby girl, Victoria Diane. I am sure that the Member for Tuxedo and her husband are very pleased with the new baby girl.

I also want to congratulate Rick Yarish, who is our Clerk's staff member here, and his wife on the birth of the second member of their family, a baby boy, a couple of weeks ago. So I want to congratulate Rick and his wife.

Also, to our leader, Stuart Murray, and the Member for Tuxedo who celebrated just one year since their election to the Legislature; so I want to also congratulate them.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I could go on for some time, but I understand there are more members who want to speak today, so I will stop there and let other members have an opportunity to speak today.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Family Services and Housing): I am absolutely delighted to rise in support of this Throne Speech which we are going to be voting on very shortly. [interjection] I think we will have to get some advice on that from my estimable House Leader.

An Honourable Member: I am just going to go next. That is why I wanted to know.

Mr. Sale: Oh, you are going to go next. How long would you like me to be?

I am absolutely delighted to rise in support of this Throne Speech, which we are going to be voting on in a matter of hours, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I am particularly pleased to be part of a government that has been very clear with Manitobans about what it is we are setting out to achieve. We are setting out to fix our health care system from a disastrous 10 years of neglect and abuse. We are setting out to make education the centrepiece of our economic development strategy. We believe that you cannot have an economic development strategy if you do not have an education strategy.

We are absolutely delighted to be recognizing the achievements of Red River community college, for example, the achievements of our Minister of Education (Mr. Caldwell) who has put more funding into the operation of public schools in the last couple of years than the previous government put in in the previous 10 years. So I am absolutely delighted to rise in support of the objectives of this Government.

When you go down to the heart of our city, Mr. Deputy Speaker, you see a new vital heart of our city emerging out of a decade of neglect. Whether it is the Millennium Library project or the waterfront drive or the exciting renovations that are going on in the Exchange District, you see Winnipeggers expressing in public opinion polls and by their investment decisions a sense of hopefulness, a sense of the potential of our city as we move into this new century, this new millennium.

I had the opportunity the other day to meet with Annitta Stenning, who is the director of CentreVenture. She said that there were 26 separate development projects underway in CentreVenture, in the heart of our city, that CentreVenture is extending its mandate to look at housing in the immediate core area of the heart of our city. She exudes the kind of optimism and can-do attitude that we are delighted to be partners in funding with the City of Winnipeg, the project called CentreVenture. Finally, there is a will and there is a mechanism to lead to the revitalization of the heart of Winnipeg.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, our Government made a commitment that we would see the future development of our province linked inextricably to the development of our vast hydro resources, the development of our energy potential in this province. So I think we can take great pride in the fact that we have signed joint equity agreements with First Nations partners to say that the future developments in the North will be by and with and for the northerners of Manitoba, as well as our whole province.

We will see the clean energy potential of hydro, recognized as we put into place the gas turbine generation system in Brandon, as we convert the coal-generating station at Selkirk to gas. When those two projects are finished, we will have the cleanest energy source in North America. We will be the cleanest energy generator and provider on this continent when those two actions are completed, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

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We talk about the commitment to our children and to our families. I am going to spend some time on that issue, Mr. Deputy Speaker, because I think that it is increasingly recognized that what social democrats have said for decades, in fact what they have said since the founding of the CCF and its predecessor, the League for Social Reconstruction, in the 1920s and 1930s, that sound social policy goes hand in hand with, is inextricably interwoven with, sound fiscal and sound economic policy, that there cannot be this hierarchy of policy which members opposite seem to think is still possible in the modern world, where they believe that first you have to get the economic issues right, and then at some kind of future date the social policy issues will flow. Well, the modern economies of the world, the leaders of the economic world, increasingly recognize that that is simply not true.

I want to refer honourable members to a report that was done for someone whose policies we do not generally support, someone whose actions, in fact, we deplore. That is the Premier of Ontario, the now departing and probably not much lamented Michael Harris. He did, however, have the foresight to engage Dr. Fraser Mustard, and the Honourable Margaret McCain in a study which is called the Early Years Study. How Fraser and Margaret got the tall foreheads of Ontario to agree to do this report has been a bit of a mystery to me, but this report has shown the way for early childhood and, in fact, family policy in Canada.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, the Early Years report I commend to all members to read, but let me tell you a little bit about what it says and why what we are doing in Manitoba under this Government's leadership is so important for the future of our province and the future of our country. The Early Years Study summarizes all of the current research on neural brain development, on neurological development. Essentially what it says is that the wiring of a child's brain is completed after birth by all of the things that happen to that child, that it is not just a question of the genetic potential, it is not just a question of the nutrition of the child, although those things are terribly important. It is a question of the quality of parenting. It is a question of the handling. It is question of breastfeeding. It is a question of whether the family's nurture of that child is comprised of lots of contact, lots of singing, lots of holding, lots of the kind of treatment which I am sure that we all love to give to our grandchildren and children in the nurturing of each of these precious human lives.

You know, we have always known that parenting was important, but I do not think we knew, for example, that the immune system of that child is also determined by the handling the child has pre- and post-natally. If the child has a nurturing parent in pregnancy and a nurturing parent after birth, and there is lots of handling and there is lots of contact, particularly breastfeeding, that has the effect of changing the child's immune system. Now you might ask, how could anything as miraculous as that happen? How is it possible that a system so finely balanced as the immune system of our bodies is moderated not by some kind of internal genetic potential, but is moderated by the human contact that that child has?

Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, modern research on brain development on infants shows that that is indeed the case. If we ever needed to have any evidence of the miraculous nature of creation and the miraculous nature of reproduction and human development, surely it is that something as subtle and as complex as the immune system of a human being is determined in very significant part by how that little baby is held, breastfed, nurtured, cared for. I find that one of the most amazing miracles that we can talk about. That is that it is not just whether the kid grows, it is not just whether the kid's speech develops, it is whether its immune system is fully developed. One of the most fascinating things is that children who are poorly nurtured, that is, who are not loved, not stroked, not handled, not breast-fed, also wind up having higher incidence of cancer, higher incidences of heart disease, higher incidences of mental illness later in life. Men who develop heart problems in their 40s and 50s have been linked to having a childhood that was at least in some significant sense deprived.

So the knowledge that is exploding across North America and across the developed world in terms of infant and child development, perhaps exemplified best by the McCain and Mustard report, I think, shows the wisdom of what we intuitively always knew and, in fact, what women, I think, have always known, and that is that the raising of healthy children is not simply a matter of feeding. It is not simply a matter of physical care. It is a matter of the bonding between parent and child and a very intimate physical relationship that goes on in those early years. That, in some way that we do not yet understand, produces a strong immune system. It produces people who do not have the incidence of heart disease, produces people who do not have the incidence of mental illness and other families of illnesses later in life. I find that, as I have said, both miraculous, heartening and absolutely amazing in terms of the understanding of the kind of mystery of our creation and the mystery of our being as humans.

So that is why, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we have invested $29 million new dollars in the last two years in services to the most vulnerable and the youngest of our citizens, and that is our unborn and our newly born children and their families. Now, it is interesting, there probably was a time 10 years ago when such policies would have been seen as, well, New Democratic policies. It is those socialists over there. They are just doing these things because they are kind of soft-hearted and they like to do stuff like this for families and kids. It is just a socialist thing.

Well, you know, it was just a socialist thing and it remains just a socialist thing, but it is interesting that big business has now endorsed this in a very, very forthright way. I had the opportunity, Mr. Deputy Speaker, to meet with the Manitoba Business Council whose executive director is Jim Carr, a former member of this House whom I ultimately replaced as the MLA for Crescentwood a couple of elections back after he had retired to do other things.

I met with this group–these, of course, are the elite of Manitoba's business community–and I shared with them the Healthy Child presentation that we do for various groups. It was absolutely fascinating. First of all, these were all men. There was not a single woman in the room, unfortunately. They were all men and they absolutely endorsed what it was we were doing. They said: This is the right thing to do and we support it.

You know, you could ask why. Well, I think there are at least three reasons why. First of all, they are all parents themselves, and they all love their children. They all love their grandchildren, and they know intuitively that this is the right thing to do, to spend money, at least a modest and reasonable amount of money, on the most vulnerable of our citizens.

But, you know, they also know the research. I was astounded, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that these people who are the sort of captains of industry in fact already knew what we were going to share with them. They already knew what Fraser Mustard had said because he visited with them, and, indeed, some of them are on his board. So they were glad to hear what we were doing, but they also were glad to tell us that they agreed with this and had known about this for some time. So they were very much supportive.

The third reason, of course, is the reason that they are in business, and that is to make a return on their investment. Increasingly, people in industry know that in the world of today and tomorrow, it is human capital that is the most important kind of capital.

We talk about the formation of capital in the financial sense as a big issue. Well, I am told that Manitoba has an outstanding record of capital formation under the last 10 years and under the current government's direction as well, but the real issue for the future is human capital. Financial capital is as mobile as the flick of a switch, the placing of an order with a stockbroker, the movement of currency from one form to another, but human capital is not nearly so easily moved around.

Human capital has commitments to community. Human capital has family. Human capital cares about where it lives, cares about its quality of life, cares about the safety of its communities. Human capital has a long-term investment in the well-being of the humans who are part of that whole family system represented by a particular person's knowledge.

The industrial leaders, the economic and financial leaders of our country, know that their edge in the future, in fact their survival in the future, depends critically on their ability to attract and retain a high, high value of human capital.

Now, that is a kind of crass and cold way of putting what we are doing, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but it is the third leg of why the Business Council strongly endorses what we do. They endorse it because they care themselves as human beings. They endorse it because they know the research. They also endorse it because they know that their success in the future is critically linked to their ability to attract and retain highly skilled, highly competent people.

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You know what the skills are that they prize most highly? The research on this is very interesting, too. It is very clear that what you know will get you your first job, but how you work with your colleagues will get you most of your jobs from that point onwards. In other words, you come in with a resume, and the first thing that is going to be examined is what is on it. Are you an engineer or are you a child care worker? What does your resume say you can do?

But your progress through the organization you work with and your capacity to make a mark both on that organization, on any you might work for in the future, and your capacity to be a leader, an influencer in your community where you live, who you worship with, who you work with is based not on what you know but how you conduct yourself. Do you know how to deal with conflict? Do you know how to problem solve? Do you know how to work in a team? Do you know how to share in the credit for things that are done? Do you know how to take responsibility when there is a problem that needs to be owned? These are the skills that critically, critically affect the ability of our society to be a competent, caring, inclusive kind of world in the future.

So that is why we have invested so heavily in our daycare system. That is why we have put in place North America's first prenatal allowance, because we know that if we can work with higher risk women prenatally, that we can make a difference to the outcome of their pregnancy and we can make a difference in the life of their newly born child.

We know that if we interrupt the cycle of despair and alcoholism with women who have given birth to FAS children, we can save the human grief and misery of FAS, we can save the financial cost now estimated at $1.7 million per child over their lifetime, and we can add to our capacity as a society to be effective and successful, compassionate and inclusive.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am also delighted to report that we have made a dent in the whole housing area. Under the leadership of this Government, with its commitment to neighbourhood renewal and neighbourhood safety, approximately 500 units of housing have been either built or committed in the first year of grant making, 14 months to be exact.

That is a very significant achievement. I am particularly pleased that both Brandon and Winnipeg have benefited from these initiatives and that they are more than just the building of physical spaces called houses. They are the building of neighbourhoods through the community capacity-building approach that we take where we fund the community organizations to do their own work, where we fund and believe in the community capacity to develop its own housing, to develop safer streets, to develop more attractive neighbourhoods. I am delighted at the work that has been done in the city of Brandon and in the area of the North End and West Broadway and in the Spence neighbourhood in Winnipeg.

I also want to tell members that it is clear that it is working. About two and a half years ago, prices for the average home sale in West Broadway were $21,000. Twenty-one thousand dollars would buy you a house in West Broadway. This year it is $35,000. Now, that is an increase of more than 50 percent in the average sale price in a neighbourhood that has worked very hard to renew itself. That is an incredible, incredible record for West Broadway. It is not something that we as a government deserve the credit for. We have been partners with them. It is the people in that neighbourhood who formed the West Broadway Development Corporation, the Westminister Housing corporation, the land trust, the community housing construction corporation. It is Art City; it is the community club; it is the business district who came together and said we can put our neighbourhood back together, and the numbers suggest that indeed they are doing just that. It is now hard to buy a cheap home in West Broadway.

So the assessment base of the community is going up which means that the city of Winnipeg benefits. It means the suburbs do not have to pick up the shift in assessment. We all win when the inner city wins, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

So I am delighted to speak in support of this Throne Speech. I urge members opposite to support its vision, to support its compassion, to support its economic record and to support the Government as we move forward with an exciting vision and a vision of participation, a vision of increasing success as a community as we move into the second year of the new millennium. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Mr. Denis Rocan (Carman): It is a pleasure to rise today and respond to the Speech from the Throne on behalf of the people of the great constituency of Carman. To begin with, I would like to take this opportunity to welcome back all of the elected officials for the Third Session of the Thirty-seventh Legislature. We have all been given the opportunity to do the business of representing the people who have given us this privilege to stand in our places without fear or favour to discuss the issues that could affect each and every one of them, regardless of where they might live.

Special recognition to our Speaker as he endeavours to do an admiral job of trying to steer us through some of the guidelines and rules that have been put in place for our benefit. It is without question that each and every one of the table officers, Pat, Bev, JoAnn, Monique and Rick–and Rick, I might add, congratulations on the birth of your new son a couple of weeks ago–and also their support staff, Pat, Michelle and Connie, who are and, I am sure, will continue to give each and every one of the members of this Assembly the best support that they have to offer. I especially like the Friday doughnuts.

To the Sergeant-at-Arms and his deputy, Blake, and the messenger room attendants, Denise and Jeanette, the gallery attendants who are all charged with the responsibility of making sure that we are secure and that the normal flow of official documentation flows on an even keel, welcome back and thank you again, Gary, to you and your staff for being so devoted.

To each and every one of the Hansard staff hiding inside of these little microphones, most sincere congratulations on producing one of the finest documents produced in the Commonwealth, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

To the young pages, I am positive that your time here will give you a complete new outlook on life. You have been chosen because of your high academic background, without which you would never have had the opportunity to take the amount of time off that is required for you to fulfil your duties.

Also, to the six new interns who have joined both sides of this House, a sincere welcome and a very small "I told you so." I have had the good fortune for many years to be a part of the committee that screens and then hires these wonderful interns who endeavour to try and make some sort of sense out of what we all do as they try to make us all look good.

To the Member for Wellington who is now the Member for Inkster (Ms. Barrett) and also the current Member for Burrows (Mr. Martindale), whom I have really enjoyed working with, along with the Clerk and the many academics who help us sift through all of the CVs and subsequent screenings that makes it all happen, I would personally like to say thank you for all your time.

You have probably noticed that I have mentioned on several occasions the young people. I feel the members opposite have failed to address in their Throne Speech a single thread of hope with regard to our young people. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the members opposite boast a 12% increase in enrolment at our public colleges and universities and strategic investments, the bulk of which has gone to creating new spaces and programs. Well, with an increase in enrolment comes an increase in the number of Manitoba students struggling to make ends meet to pay the cost of tuition, books and supplies, not to mention the basic needs of food, shelter and clothing.

The University of Manitoba food bank has seen an increase of 117 percent in the number of people it has fed so far this year compared to the same time last year. Continuing at this rate, the food bank will have fed 1856 people by the end of March, an increase of 585 individuals over the previous year.

The awards and financial aids office reports that approximately 1000 University of Manitoba students have an assessed need that exceeds a maximum amount awarded through the student loans program, and this, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is only one of the province's four universities. I am sure these students who are worried about where their next meal is coming from will be comforted to know that their Government has invested $50 million in the buildings that surround them.

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With the increase of nursing and medical students in the province that the members opposite speak of, this situation could get much worse before it gets better. Programs in nursing and medicine are very demanding, involving long hours both at school and in clinics, hospitals and personal care homes. Students in their second year of medicine at the University of Manitoba calculated that the amount of time required for them to be at school and found it to be the equivalent of taking 12 undergraduate art courses. This does not even include the time they spend studying. Such programs require students to memorize a great deal of material in a very short period of time. Therefore, it proves difficult, if not impossible, for students wishing to succeed academically to also work part time while enrolled in one of these programs. These students are obviously one of our province's most crucial resources at this time. The NDP government should be doing all it can to ease the financial burden bestowed upon these students.

Sections of Throne Speech emphasize remote communities of northern Manitoba. Well, hello. What about southwestern Manitoba? What about southeastern Manitoba? What about central Manitoba? How could a government that is supposed to represent the entire province have such a vast oversight? I ask you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, how can the people living in the many communities contained within these sections of the province have any faith that their Government aims to represent their best interests? Thus, the NDP government's so-called rural development strategy is clearly a misnomer. Once again, the members opposite have failed to offer any viable reasons for young people to remain in or move to the province's rural areas. Increasing numbers of rural high school graduates are flocking to Manitoba's cities because they are finding the opportunities available to them to be limited and continuing to decline should they remain in their home communities. But now, their problems are solved.

Do you know why that is, Mr. Deputy Speaker? This Government has offered them improved drainage systems and cleaner drinking water. Much needed, I will say, and I thank the members opposite for that, but I am sure that the young people can hardly contain their excitement. Surely this will give them the income required to buy a house, raise a family, and all the while being able to remain in their community.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, in all seriousness, it is a sad day when a government's rural development strategy provides zero opportunity for stable employment for the rural residents of this province. How, then, can the members opposite call it a development strategy?

On a personal note, Mr. Deputy Speaker, this leaves me with a dilemma of what to tell my constituents when they ask what the Government is doing for them in the coming year. Regretfully, these will be very short conversations. They are constantly being disappointed by their provincial government.

First, a nursing shortage forced my Minister of Health (Mr. Chomiak) to close down the Tiger Hills health centre in Treherne last summer. Upon doing so, he exercised no regard for the people dependent upon this facility's services. The Minister of Health has since had more than a year to rectify the situation. Yet the nursing shortage remains a major crisis in his department and, indeed, this province.

I find this extremely shameful, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Yet this Government of this province still refuses to look out for my constituents' best interests. Now, more than ever, less and less rural young people desire to assume ownership and responsibility of the farms that their parents, and perhaps generations prior to that, have so diligently worked on.

Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, honestly, can you blame them? This provincial government's redundant promises, talk to the federal government, certainly will not change any minds. Young people need to see a more pro-active approach, to know that their Government really wants to see the farm that they grew up on stay in their family. Or do you folks over there not even care?

Sad though it is, this year's Throne Speech is simply not showing them that this Government cares about what happens to their parent's farm. Project 2000, the NDP government's answer to ease the transition between generations of farming families clearly misses the point.

First of all, common sense dictates that young people eventually wanting to take over the family farm would have expressed some interest in the logistics of its operations. And I might add that in the majority of cases they would have had their parents or grandparents or whatever the case right there to answer their questions without any unnecessary funding from the provincial government.

In the case of prospective young producers not having been raised on a farm, a mentorship program will hardly send them running to purchase 1000 acres of farmland. The financial burden assumed by farmers in this province far surmounts any obstacles Project 2000 was designed to overcome. Under this Minister of Agriculture's (Ms. Wowchuk) watch, the total outstanding debt for farmers in Manitoba increased from 1999 to 2000 by almost $200,000 or a 5.4% increase.

Until the members opposite implement changes that will actually make a difference, the state of agriculture in Manitoba will not see improvements. The crop of willing young farmers in this province, unless nurtured, could suffer a series of bad growing seasons.

In the two full pages in the Throne Speech in which the members opposite outlined their proposed security measures, never once do they express a willingness to support the federal government in its fight against terrorism. A few weeks ago, my colleagues and I pleaded with this Government of this province to fully endorse and support any economic, diplomatic and military sanctions undertaken by the Government of the United States of America and its allies in response to the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

Prime Minister Jean Chrétien has declared that we, Canada, are at war against terrorism. Clearly, this makes us an ally with the United States of America. Not only did the members opposite refuse to agree to this, they also failed to take their own initiative in declaring to the people of Manitoba that they condemn terrorism and support Ottawa in its attempt to put a stop to it.

The free world is experiencing some heightened tensions and understandably so with a war going on. With these intensified emotions comes a great deal of finger pointing and suspicion on the basis of nationality, race and religion.

I fear that if the province's leaders fail to grab the reigns and put intolerance of all kinds to an abrupt halt, our young people will believe this practice to be acceptable. The youth of my constituency and other rural constituencies are of particular concern to me. All too often in our province, young people living in rural areas are deprived of certain opportunities available to those living in the larger urban centres, whether intentional or not. Difficult as it may be for some of us to fathom, some young people who are raised and choose to stay in a small town may never encounter a Muslim, a Hindu or an Arab. The list could be quite extensive if we think about it further.

Knowing this, I worry the more we distance ourselves from others, the more indifferent we may become. I fear too many human beings practice an out-of-sight, out-of-mind approach, which the members opposite have rehearsed time and time again with the people of rural Manitoba.

What happens if the indifference of which I speak leads to intolerance? If the events of September 11 have taught us anything, it is that intolerance is in essence a principal cause of terrorism. It is our responsibility as leaders and legislators not to let that happen. Sadly, nothing in the Throne Speech nor the NDP government's actions on the day of the debate sends that message.

The members opposite have dedicated themselves to ensuring a better future for our children through access to education. Well, what about the education that people deserve to be free of judgement? What about the education that just because an individual belongs to a religion that has been taken entirely out of context by some harm-causing scumbag does not make him or her guilty by association. Who is going to teach them these things? Is it up to our educators, our parents, the media? What initiatives is the provincial government planning to take to ensure our children are learning these important principles?

I was hoping that these answers would lie within the Throne Speech, but clearly my hopes have been dashed. Also, I had put on the record during this Finance Minister's first Budget to the people of this province, I had actually given him some sound advice which I will read back to him at this time.

Women in this province are subject to gender-based taxation. Only females have to purchase feminine hygiene products and they have to purchase them regularly for much of their lives. Despite this, they are required to pay the regular rate of provincial sales tax, regardless of the fact that feminine protection products are an absolute hygienic necessity for only the women of this province. There is certainly no luxury aspect to them.

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I also have in my possession several notes from his colleagues on that side of the House from that day on which I spoke when I made those remarks that congratulated me for bringing this issue forward, remarks like bravo and it is about time. Well, Mr. Minister, it is about time that we who are seen as a private boys club do something that is fair. Would you not agree to this statement?

There might be certain individuals who would say that this is a way to get the young female vote to join their particular cause, but I would respond that even though an opposition member raises the issue and that this Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) acts on this, it would be a totally non-partisan issue done out of fairness.

You will have the opportunity fairly soon as you now start to produce your Budget for the next fiscal year. I sincerely hope that you do the right thing, because I know that you are a gentleman, indeed a person of character.

The Deputy Speaker, while speaking on this debate, went to great lengths in informing us of a higher being. Because of his remarks, I would like to share with the House a beautiful poem which was sent to me by one of my constituents who lives in the Roseisle-Graysville area.

It is simply titled A Beautiful Prayer: I asked God to take away my pain. God said no. It is not for me to take away, but for you to give it up. I asked God to grant me patience. God said no. Patience is a by-product of tribulations. It is not granted; it is learned. I asked God to give me happiness. God said no. I give you blessings; happiness is up to you. I asked God to spare me pain, God said no. Suffering draws you apart from worldly cares and brings you closer to me. I asked God to make my spirit grow. God said no. You must grow on your own. But I will prune you to make you fruitful. I asked for all the things that I might enjoy in life. God said no. I will give you life so that you may enjoy all things. I asked God to help me love others as much as he loves me, and God said, aha, finally you have the right idea.

I often say to my three grandchildren two little sentences I want to share with everybody here: To the world you might be one person, but to one person, you just might be the world.

So, from my wife, Anita, and myself and our extended families, I would like to take this opportunity to wish each and every one a very, very Merry Christmas and God bless each and every one of you for taking the time to represent your constituents. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): I want to welcome the new pages, and especially one, Meaghan Ballantyne-Dickson. I supervised her father when he was an internship student from St. Andrews College on Prairie Neighbours Pastoral Charge in Etonia, Saskatchewan, almost 25 years ago. He is now the minister of Shaughnessy United Church in Burrows constituency, Mr. Speaker.

I would also like to welcome the new interns. I am in agreement with my colleague from the constituency of Carman, since we both serve on the supervisory committee and help choose the interns, to say that I enjoy serving with him and enjoy being part of this process.

Someone has said that all politics is local. So I would like to spend a little bit of time on some of the things that I have done since the House adjourned at the end of the last session on July 5. Immediately after it adjourned I volunteered for a week with Habitat for Humanity with the Ed Schreyer Build, along with Premier Doer and the Minister of Housing (Mr. Sale) and other MLAs, where we helped build 10 houses. Habitat for Humanity has greatly expanded. They were building four houses a year. Now they are going to hopefully build ten houses every year. This past fall they built a house in Burrows. I think it is only the third house in Burrows constituency. Most of the time we are working in Point Douglas, but we are very happy to do that.

In July, I attended the Gathering of Nations along with the MLA for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Faurschou) in the constituency, I believe, of the Member for Carman (Mr. Rocan) in the town of Holland. It was the first time I had been there. It was a pleasure to be there representing the Government, and I look forward to going back. I am pleased to see that probably they have taken an idea, namely Folklorama, and taken it to Holland and a couple of other towns. [interjection] I am told that the Festival of Nations was first. Maybe we imitated them. Well, I congratulate the organizers of the Festival of Nations then. I am glad you were here to tell me that.

In July, also, I went to the annual anniversary service for Breadalbane Presbyterian Church. This church, which is about six miles north of Virden, near the Assiniboine River Valley, was built by pioneers, if memory serves me correctly, about 1895, including my great-grandparents John James Anderson Fraser and Christina Fraser. I was there with the Member for Virden (Mr. Maguire), and we unveiled a plaque to commemorate the former Breadalbane school of which my great-grandfather was a trustee and secretary treasurer.

I was recognized at the ceremony, but the Member for Virden brought greetings on behalf of the Government of Manitoba. I hope he enjoyed representing our NDP government that day. Anyway, it was a pleasure to be there with him and his wife. We sat beside them in church that day. Two of my mother's first cousins were present, Dorothy Finlay from Brandon and Lillian Dryden from Virden, and some of their family.

So I am proud of my roots in rural Manitoba. I have been to Breadalbane three times, and I look forward to returning there. They were homesteaders there about 1880, first generation on the land.

On the same weekend, I also visited Canupawakpa First Nation, which is south of Virden. I went to seek out good news stories about things that are happening on First Nations communities. I am tired of hearing people talking about mostly negative stereotypes and things that are not true. I was looking for positive stories that I could use when talking to constituents and others.

Indeed, there are some good things happening at this First Nation. For example, they have a cabinet and furniture making shop which employs six people. They are marketing their products in Manitoba. They are looking to expand to the United States with partnerships with American First Nations.

They have Dakota language classes for everyone of all ages. I think this is important. We know this from our immigrant communities in Winnipeg. For example, in the Ukrainian community they have a saying that language is the key to culture, and if you want to keep your culture alive you need to keep your language alive. This is no less true amongst First Nations people, that language is the key to culture. It is good to see them promoting their language. They currently have a gas bar on the reserve. They want to expand this and open a truck stop on the highway. Shortly after I was there, the same week, they were having a visioning process for the whole community. They invited me to attend, and I was sorry that I was not able to.

Also, during the month of July, I attended a logo unveiling for Lord Selkirk Tenants Association. They have a unit at Lord Selkirk developments in the constituency of Point Douglas. I was pleased to represent the Government at this event, as we and the previous government try to give more authority and responsibility to the tenants association to manage their own affairs.

I attended the North End Housing Project's community barbecue. A few days before the barbecue, I went on a walking tour of Alfred Avenue to see the housing that they are renovating, many of these houses formerly boarded up. This is one of the very positive initiatives of our Government that we are undertaking in the inner city and the North End to renovate and put renovated housing back on the market. At the same time, Just Housing is training people in carpentry and other skills so that they can get jobs renovating these houses. We have only made a first step. We have only made a beginning. It is going to be a long process to turn neighbourhoods around. This afternoon we heard about a very successful neighbourhood revitalization in West Broadway and housing prices increasing. We certainly hope that that will happen in the North End soon, as well.

In August, I had the honour of being part of the official opening of the Warsaw, Poland, Pavilion at Folklorama, the first time I had been invited to take part in an official opening. I was pleased to do that. I recently attended a banquet celebrating the 95th anniversary of the Polish Gymnastic Association Sokol. This organization has been very instrumental in keeping the Polish culture alive in the north end and in Winnipeg in general. I always appreciate being invited to events there. They always invite my wife. Sometimes, we attend events there, along with the Member for St. James (Ms. Korzeniowski), who gets invited as well.

Also, during the month of August, I represented the Government and made a speech at Hiroshima Day, an event that takes place annually in Winnipeg to commemorate the thousands of people who died due to the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It is quite a poignant ceremony because people light candles and put them on lanterns that float in the pool behind Centennial Library.

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In August, I was out to rural Manitoba again to bring greetings at the official opening of the United Church Men's Conference annual gathering. I led a workshop on Christians in politics. I know that many members would find that interesting. I would be happy to tell them what I said about Christians in politics.

In August, the Rozmai Ukrainian Dance Ensemble did a tour of Ukraine. I would like to congratulate them on all their fundraising efforts and on putting on an excellent concert when they came back, with new dances that they had learned. Three of the people who went on the tour were my wife and our son, Nathan, and our daughter, Tanissa. My wife was very proud of them because they spoke Ukrainian every day when they were in Ukraine. This is one of the benefits of learning a second language. They hated going to Ukrainian school on Saturday morning from nine till one, but it finally paid off. In fact, as I told someone recently at a Ukrainian gathering, I said to my daughter, Tanissa, when she hated getting up on Saturday morning: If you learn Ukrainian some day, you can work at Carpathia Credit Union. This is her third year as a part-time teller at Carpathia Credit Union. So I am proud of my children for their accomplishments with the Rozmai Ukrainian Dance Ensemble, and also with learning their mother's ancestral language.

In August, along with some other MLAs, I had a tour by the Exchange District BIZ leaders and was very interested and excited to hear about some of the things that are happening there, including many things that do not get coverage in the media. We know about Red River College expansion, the Big 4 renovations, the Mountain Equipment Co-op, but there are many new businesses and stores that are opening in the Exchange District BIZ. We were pleased to take the River Ferry to the Osborne dock, a very successful small business.

Later in August, I attended a farewell lunch for Maureen McCatty, the executive director of the North Winnipeg Council for Seniors. I wish her well as she works on her Bachelor of Nursing degree at the University of Manitoba, and welcome her successor.

One of the more interesting things that I attended in October, was the official opening of the Wat Lao Xayaram Buddhist Temple and Community Centre in a former city of Winnipeg fire hall, located in Burrows constituency on Sinclair Street. After the official opening, a couple of weeks later, I was there again, along with representatives of the Canadian Red Cross and people in the neighbourhood whom we invited and other Laotian organizations in Winnipeg, because what they had done was they had collected money from four Laotian organizations across Canada for the victims of the September 11 terrorist attacks in the United States. They presented a cheque to the Canadian Red Cross for the American Red Cross to help the victims. So, I would like to thank the Laotian community and also the Red Cross representatives: Mr. Marc Derosiers, the regional director, and Lynda Gilchuk, also of the Winnipeg office.

I would like to welcome our new friends and neighbours who are occupying the Buddhist Temple and Community Centre. They tell me that some of their members plan to buy houses and renovate them in the neighbourhood, and we are very happy to hear that.

In October, I had the town hall meeting for my constituents. I believe in being accountable to people, so I am planning to have a total of four town hall meetings–I have had two already, have two more to go–so that during the next election, when people ask me what I have done, I can say I have been accountable to my constituents, I invited everyone in a certain geographic neighbourhood and people came. I talked about what our Government has been doing and I answered questions. I think it is a good idea that everyone should be doing.

I would like to conclude, because I am being asked to wind up here shortly, by talking about one of the more important things happening in Burrows constituency, and that is the public consultation that has taken place about the future of the former North YM-YWCA, which has been vacant since 1995 because the previous Conservative government did not do anything. We have done something. We have set aside a million dollars for a new building or for renovations, and we have given money to the North End Wellness Group, who are coming up with a business plan and consulting the community. They had four public meetings. I was able to attend two of them, and we are looking forward to their final recommendations on what should happen.

We are probably going to need some help from the City of Winnipeg and from the federal government. We had an offer from the Member for Fort Whyte (Mr. Loewen) to raise a million dollars in the private sector. We are going to need that as well. Probably the most difficult task is to find $300,000 for the operating budget every year. We do not really know where that money is going to come from, but I am sure that the North End Wellness Group will find various sources.

I would like to congratulate the Filipino Seniors Association on their 28th anniversary. I had the pleasure of attending their celebration, along with the Speaker and his wife and the member of Parliament for Winnipeg North Centre, Judy Wasylycia-Leis.

I also attended the 25th anniversary of Rossbrook House, and I attended Remembrance Day ceremonies at Lord Nelson School, West Kildonan Legion and 141 Legion. I met with the new board of directors of the Gilbert Park Tenants Association. I want to congratulate them on their election in July. With one exception, they are all women so it is a new era, and their president, Vicki Meekish, is doing an excellent job spending many, many hours volunteering as the president.

I also had the pleasure of attending two out of three dinners held on the 20th anniversary of the election of the MLA for Thompson (Mr. Ashton). It was a pleasure to take part in those celebrations.

Since I am running out of time, I would like to conclude with something that I wrote and it is as follows: "I am not a captain of industry,/ Or a laissez-faire capitalist,/ And I don't live in Tuxedo or on Wellington Crescent,/ Or own a Mercedez Benz,/ And I don't know the Richardsons/ Or the Bob Kozminskis or anyone/ From the Manitoba Club/ Although I'm certain they are really very nice people.

"I have principles, not shibboleths./ I speak plain English, not the/ Latest jargon like Total Quality Assurance and/ I pronounce the Queen's representatives in/ Manitoba Lieutenant not 'Lootenant'./ I can proudly wear my Canadian flag tie without the/ Idolatrous worship of nationalism.

"I believe in sharing, not greed,/ Inclusiveness, not exclusiveness,/ And that medicare is one of the most important/ Things that define us as a nation.

"An individual is part of a community./ We are all interdependent./ No person is an island and/ We are our brothers and sisters keepers.

"Social democrats care about one another./ We put people ahead of profits./ My name is Doug/ and I am proud to be a social democrat and a Canadian."

Mr. Mervin Tweed (Turtle Mountain): I am not sure if I am pleased to stand and put too many comments on the record in regard to the Throne Speech, but I am going to give it my best shot.

I do want to start out by saying hello and welcoming back the Speaker. I know that we look to you for guidance, and as we commented earlier to each other, I know that you are coming out into the community to talk to young people, and I think that is an admirable thing to do. I welcome you to my constituency at any time. I know that your message will be good for young people, and we desperately need to get young people back involved in government and understanding the process.

To our new pages, I welcome you. I hope it will be a good experience. Sometimes you may see some bad sides of politicians and our behaviour, but I think at the end of the day, hopefully you will have a good understanding of what we do here and how we do it. Sometimes it is not all in the process; it is the end result that we look for that makes it work.

To the table officers, again we look for your direction and support and know that the job you have is not always an easy one. We appreciate the fine work that you do.

Mr. Speaker, I did open my comments with the concerns that I have about the Throne Speech. I have to tell you, part of me is ashamed of the House that we call the Legislature and that we work in. When we came back after the summer break, after the tragedy of September 11, which saw so many things change in our lives, I came back with the idea or the thought that the government of the day would take true leadership on this issue and present something on behalf of all Manitobans, something on behalf of all members of the Legislature, and I think we failed. I really think we have failed Manitobans by not doing so.

It is something that has affected us all. I was speaking with some friends shortly after the tragedy, and the gentleman said to me: You know, we measure our lives from an event in history and move forward. Older people can remember the war. They can remember the end of the war. For some of them, that is where their lives started and moved forward from that point. Many people, next generations, can remember when the president of the United States got shot. From that point forward, history for them, that was the mark point where they started, when they referred back to the days of the history that they remembered.

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I think for us, at our age, but more importantly and more particularly for our children, it will be a point in history that they will measure the rest of their life from. I think we have to do everything we can as adults, as legislators, as people who live in the province of Manitoba, to ensure that our children understand the events of that day, that they realize the tragedies that took place and that they never forget. So too easily or too quickly we try to pass those things off as just another event that happened, and I think sometimes we do a great disservice by not acknowledging it.

I can remember travelling in Germany with some friends and, actually, some colleagues from the NDP government in Saskatchewan, travelling and touring a concentration camp, and the emotion that came forward from that event. It did not mean as much to me at the time, or until I saw it, and when I shared that with someone who had deep feelings about it and had family and had a history of understanding it, I truly recognized the importance of it and the fact that it was a tragic, tragic part of our history. Sometimes, if we forget about it, we tend to desensitize ourselves to those types of issues.

When we came back on November 13 after the break, I was prepared to support the Government in a resolution. In fact, we had had discussions on our side of the House that we expected it. We were very disappointed when it did not show up on the Order Paper. I think at that point we decided that it should be something that we should do as a province and we should do as an all-province, because it affects and impacts everybody involved. So, Mr. Speaker, I was very disappointed by it.

I had just attended a Remembrance Day service on November 11, and throughout the service the veterans of the wars got up and spoke, told their stories and their history. The last part of the service was a young girl from the high school, I would guess 14, 15, who got up and recited a poem. She talked about the tragedy of war, but she also talked about politicians and how quickly they can gloss over things, and through words alone they can make people forget the tragedies that happened, and if they are not prepared to face the realities and we do not make it the issue that we should, it is easy for people to not have the same sensitivity and the same understanding of what happened.

Her message was very, very clear. We stand here every day as honourable people. We make the laws. We make the legislation that runs our province and to a greater extent our country, yet in the biggest time of need we tend to run and hide. We tend to turn our backs to the people who meant so much to the freedoms that we have and the ability to do the things we do. It struck me as so real, that the fact that we could ignore this when we came back to the Legislature has had an impact on me, and I can tell you it will be impact that I will not soon forget.

I have gone out to my communities and spoken to them about this, and, regrettably, I do not think anybody feels that good about it, the fact that a group of free-thinking people who represent the province of Manitoba and the people in Manitoba, that we could not agree as a collective unit that we condemn racism, we condemn discrimination against any individual, group or organization, that we encourage all Manitobans to treat all people with compassion, dignity and respect.

How hard is that? Is that not what we ask of each other every day? Is that not what we stand up and say, and the Speaker when he admonishes us from his Chair, when he says to us: We are all honourable people in this building? I really question sometimes our motives and the things that we do, and I question whether we are.

How hard would it be for all of us to stand together as an Assembly and say that we are going to do everything within our power to ensure that there is no place in Manitoba for agents or supporters of terrorism? Who does not agree with that in this province? I cannot understand that.

We try and teach our children to respect others, to learn to live a good life and lead a good life, and we cannot stand in unison and tell them that, as parents, as grandparents, as brothers, as sisters. To me, it is a shame. Who in this Assembly cannot say that they fully endorse and support the necessary economic actions that countries have to take in times as drastic and as tragic as September 11? It is beyond me.

I find it very frustrating when I talk to people who gave their lives and their brothers' and sisters' lives, when I talk to them and they do not understand that we who speak the words, who understand the words, cannot stand together as a collective body in a Legislature representing the people of Manitoba and say: We stand together on this.

So in my opening comments, I do share some guilt and I share some shame that this House could not reach that resolution together. It was not meant, as others would say, to be a political statement. We waited. We talked about it on one side of the House and said we felt that the Government would bring this forward, as they have in other legislation. We saw no lead on it. We changed the words several times because we did not want to offend anybody on any side of the House to get a unanimous agreement.

So I say to all members that I think we have had a shameful day in this House. I would hope at some point we could correct history and support a resolution like this and send it on and have it so it is recorded in the histories of this building, that for one day, for the sake of Canada and the sake of the nations around the world who support peace, who support people's rights, we would stand together and support this. I feel like we have let a group of people down. In fact, I feel like we have let a lot of Manitobans down on this particular issue.

The Throne Speech is about looking forward. In many cases, I find as I read the document that was presented by the Government, that we had a history lesson as opposed to a lesson or a look into the future. It frustrates me because people are looking for optimism, especially after the events of September 11. This is a time for a government to make bold, new statements on the direction that we want to go and the things that we see in the future of the people of Manitoba, and the opportunity that presents itself.

We had some discussion in the Throne Speech about water and about building a protective system around the city of Winnipeg. That has been talked about for years. It has been done. What I would like to have seen this Government talk about are the opportunities that we can take with water across this province, and not only turn it into the expense that everybody sees it as, but to the opportunity of what it could create for all Manitobans. With a series of dams, a series of controls, a series of water reservoirs throughout this province, we could build a protective system that would protect Winnipeg, and at the same time, enhance every region of the province, north, south, east and west.

* (16:40)

I think the Government is very nearsighted to be looking at investing the type of money that they are in this province to protect the city, which I agree has to happen. I think, looking into the future, there is a lot more opportunity, and there is probably an ability and a way that we can make it pay for itself, as opposed to just being a burden on the taxpayers, and saving Winnipeg, which is what we want to do in the long term, but the opportunity was missed. In fact, it was not even discussed by this Government. They show the lack of vision that I think people in this province want to see and want to hear from a government.

I want to talk a little bit about health care. I have had discussions with the Health Minister. I say he is an honourable man in a very tough position. He is in a position that he was put into with promises that were made that, I think, in reality, I am not sure whether anybody believed they could happen or be accomplished, and, yet, he has been thrust into the position of trying to make them happen. I think, sometimes, in the haste that we embark upon to serve the promises that we make, we probably do a disservice to the rest of the province and to the people of Manitoba in our haste.

We have seen spending in health care go up continually. We see it everywhere, but the question is: Have we seen any improvements? We have had discussion across the floor and some dialogue about rural Manitoba. Rural Manitoba is suffering, Mr. Speaker, in the health care field, the recent announcement by this Government that there is going to be a 0% increase in funding next year is going to put them in a terrible bind. It is going to force them into decisions that I do not think are good for the health care of the people of Manitoba.

We have talked about this Government providing funding for ambulances and transportation services, but that is not the type of care that the people want. They want to be able to access their health care in their communities. They want to have reasonable access for other services, and I think there is a system out there that we could develop and proceed forward with that would make it work for everybody and be beneficial to everybody, but in our haste to meet our promises that we think are probably unattainable, we have embarked in a completely different direction, and the people are seeing it and they are feeling it. They are having to travel longer distances.

I can cite a personal example of my own and the fact that I had to see a doctor this summer. I had to travel to four different locations in the city of Winnipeg to make appointments with one doctor. I just cannot understand anyone that can tell me that is an efficient use of tax dollars. Not only that, I think of my family, I think of my parents having to do that and the stress that they would be involved in coming into the city, finding their location, finding they have been moved to another location and bumped through the system. I think there has to be a better way. I think we have to step back and take a look at it and get rid of all the fear that people have about their health care and talk openly and honestly with them and show a vision, not just talk about the status quo and the past but look forward instead of behind.

Mr. Speaker, we have spent a lot of time in the last little while talking about education, and we have seen a series of contradictions from the members opposite. People everywhere in Manitoba have some serious concerns about the direction this Government is going in education. They talk about educating young people. They talk about increased enrolment in universities. They talk about opportunities for young people in education, but beyond that, the idea, their economic plan is graduate in Manitoba, get a job in Manitoba.

Statistics Canada is now saying that we are training more people in Canada today for export jobs than ever before. I think it is one in fourteen automatically going, and then the percentages go up as they get through their graduate periods. I think that sends a wrong message to Manitobans, to our young people. It is not about just getting the education, it is about the opportunities that present themselves afterwards. I do not think this Government has looked forward enough, and they certainly did not present it in the Throne Speech that we heard just recently as to the direction and the opportunities of where we are going when our graduates come.

We have seen the government of the day talk about graduating more nurses, and I applaud them for the idea that we need more people in the system, but the challenge of every government, and I think the biggest challenge that we are going to see, is how we keep these young people in our province. Are they going to stay in the highest taxed province in Canada or in Western Canada, west of Québec? I think not, Mr. Speaker, and I do not say that casually or with intent to hurt the Government. I say it because I think it is a fact. We all have young children, and we all want them to succeed and be successful and create and see the opportunities and reap the benefits of their education. If we do not offer them an opportunity to stay here and be competitive with the rest of the world, I think we are setting ourselves up for a big fall because the opportunities are everywhere and endless.

I was talking to a young woman who was working in New Zealand, and while she was there, there were seven American states there recruiting in her profession. Basically, they would cover the costs of her transportation. They would give her a flat bonus to move and, basically, set them up on a two-year contract. We have to understand that that is the new way of competing in this world. We have to move our Government and our province in a way that we are going to compete head to head. I am not satisfied being the same as or better than Saskatchewan, although this Government seems to be very complacent about that and seems to be very satisfied that we will take the poorer parts of the country of North America and of Canada and say, "Well, we are better than they are." That is not good enough, I do not think, Mr. Speaker.

I think what we should be doing is saying to our children, "We want you to be the best. We want to give you the opportunities to be the best." I do not think that happens with this Speech from the Throne.

Further in education, Mr. Acting Speaker, I have to say, and it is being said across Manitoba now, people are very disappointed with what has happened in education in the last couple of weeks, of what has been uncovered, what is taking place. They do not believe that the Government is telling them the truth. It is kind of like when you were a small child, when you tell one story and it does not catch. You have to tell another story and another story, and eventually the stories become connected in some way and people create doubt. They create questions. I do not think what has happened has been good for anybody in government. In fact, I do not think it has been good for any elected official because I think, unfortunately, we all get painted with the same brush from time to time. This type of behaviour on behalf of a government, on behalf of a new government that is interested in showing a new direction for the province of Manitoba, I think, is unfortunate.

I would like to see the Government just come clean, tell the people what is going on, because the more confusion they create out there with the differences of stories, the differences of remarks–we hear one story one day; we hear another story the other day. We work in this Legislature to ask questions on behalf of the people of Manitoba, and we never get an answer. Yet we go outside, and the media can ask one question and the spin doctors are out there spinning everybody every direction, and they provide some answers. Whether they are true or not or correct or not, no one will ever know.

In fact, I suspect some day we will know the truth, and when we do I suspect it will be an embarrassment for us all. We have a government that seems to be prepared to say anything, to do anything. When they do something that is not right or is not within the rules, they simply ignore the rules, do what they want and then try and change the rules afterwards. I do not think the people of Manitoba want that. I do not think they deserve it. I do not think that they have asked for it. It has been a sad, sad session, I suspect, for people who have any interest in the political world. To see this type of behaviour, it has to be discouraging.

* (16:50)

Mr. Speaker, when we talked earlier and I opened in my comments about you travelling around the province to talk to young people, I think that is a good thing. I will be there in my communities, in my constituency of Turtle Mountain as often as I can because I think we have to get the message out, and we have to get young people involved.

We had a group of students here the other day from the constituency of Morris, and they were talking about losing their teachers because of the situation in the Morris-Macdonald School Division. I spoke to those young people and they were very saddened by the events of what has taken place. My comment to them was that they were to be congratulated because they took an issue and they got involved in it. They are circulating a petition to support them. It is for their community; it is an interest that they take in their community; and they should be rewarded for the input that they are taking. I am sure they will recognize some of the frustrations that we all do in public life, but the fact that they took the bull by the horns and got involved, I think, is a very positive thing.

Mr. Speaker, I do want to just mention a few things that are happening in the constituency of Turtle Mountain. I think that it is probably one area in the province, and I, certainly, am not condemning any other area, but it has been tremendous in the last few years in the constituency of Turtle Mountain. We have seen growth, population growth. We have seen small industries start up. We have seen areas of the constituency that have grasped the hog industry and taken it to heart and turned it into a positive thing for the communities. We have seen the construction of elevator and grain facilities. We have seen the construction of feed mills. We have seen investment.

I recently attended an opening of a feed mill. The owner of the feed mill commented that their company, personally, had invested over $30 million into our community. By investing that $30 million, they leveraged another twenty-five out of local money. Now, that is $55 million of investment. That has to be good. I would suggest that they might have done it in spite of the things that have happened, in spite of the things that have happened.

So it is positive, and I think that there are more things happening, Mr. Speaker. They are concerned. They have issues about drainage, as most parts of the province of Manitoba, and I touched in comments as to some of the things that I think that governments can do to enhance those opportunities.

They are concerned about agriculture. They feel abandoned, and I do not say that directly at this Government. They feel abandoned by all governments. One gives them lip-service. The other will not return their phone calls. So it is frustrating for them. The studies in the province, particularly in rural Manitoba, say one of the biggest challenges that rural Manitobans have is on the marketing side. They produce a good product. They produce a product that is ready for the market, but their challenge is getting it out to the market, and I think they need help in that area, and I think that it is incumbent upon governments to sit down and talk to them, find out what their needs are, and help them develop those parts of their business plan that they do not have the necessary or, perhaps, they are not as strong as they should be.

They recognize it, and they acknowledge it. They look and seek for help, and I think that there is an opportunity there for governments to play an active role without being seen as just handing out money to industries or to segments of society. It is an assistance, similar to what I talked about with the water situation.

Mr. Speaker, in closing, I will look forward to some of the announcements that the Government has made in their Throne Speech. As I said, I believe that it is more of a history lesson than it is a vision of the future. I think that people will judge this Government very soon on the future, and as they presented to the people of the province of Manitoba. I suspect that there is going to be some disappointment. I hope that in the next Throne Speech the Government takes seriously the role of the Throne Speech and actually talks to the future and to the opportunity that is out there and not refer to the past and not look in the rearview mirror, and look forward, instead.

Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Well, I am glad to start my comments where the honourable member left off. He mentions with great reluctance the new increased investment in the feed plant operation in rural Manitoba. He mentions, Mr. Speaker, the work of our great Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk) in attracting more and more investments in rural communities. I mean, I just remember a couple of months ago getting the announcement on the largest feed mill in all of Canada, and I am not being humble for myself. I am being humble for the Minister of Agriculture.

What did Golda Meir say? There was a term: I do not have to be humble, I am not that great. I think I would rather use her lines than the honourable Member for Ste. Rose (Mr. Cummings).

But again, we start our comments with a positive, positive economic development and investments that are taking place in rural Manitoba and taking place all across this province, Mr. Speaker.

We on this side are builders. We are builders of real programs for real people living in real communities. The members opposite, the mighty Conservative Party of Manitoba, the party of Roblin, the party of Churchill, the party of former leaders with great, great gravitas and great strength has now become a party of inventors, inventors of the truth, daily, in Question Period.

I think it is very, very unfortunate, Mr. Speaker. Now the torch has been fumbled by members opposite and regrettably the type of debate that we were used to in previous years, where ideas and people and different values were debated in this Chamber, but they always were debated on the basis of fact, not on the basis of fiction, and I think it is carrying on from, again, the comments of the member opposite who became a Philadelphia lawyer in this Chamber. I did not know he was a Philadelphia lawyer on section 23 versus section something else in the act. [interjection]

Yes, there was an answer. Did we have legal advice? Yes, we did. Oui, Monsieur.

Mr. Speaker, we are building today and we are building for tomorrow. This Speech from the Throne throughout its pages goes through the various efforts, activities and initiatives to build Manitoba for the future. We have a lot of building to do. We have a lot of heavy lifting to do. We have a lot of work to do because there was a lot of neglect, a lot of drifting, a lot of lack of any muscle or intellectual muscle in Manitoba for a number of years.

Mr. Speaker, we are building this province on both a human side and a bricks-and-mortar side. We see the province is building, and the projects that we have are not one dimensional, but they are multifaceted, multidimensional with multitargeted goals and objectives for our province.

Mr. Speaker, we are starting, of course, with a five-point plan or a five-initiative strategy in health care. Throughout the Speech from the Throne we continue to build upon the initiatives that we have announced in the past to build results into the future. We are starting with a project and an initiative where we have miles to go before we can sleep because when we came into office we knew that there were not enough nurses in Manitoba. There had been a thousand nurses fired by the previous government.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Doer: They doth protesteth too much; they doth protesteth too much.

Mr. Speaker, we need more nurses in Manitoba, and we are training nurses to be ready for Manitoba patients throughout this province with the initiatives we have announced. We will have three times more nurses graduating in September of 2002, than graduated in 1999. Three times.

* (17:00)

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Doer: I guess I did not make myself clear; 1999, 2002, September to September. Three times more nurses graduating in 2002 than in 1999.

Now, who was in office in 1999? Who is in office now? Who is the Minister of Health (Mr. Chomiak) that is making this happen? The Minister of Health for Manitoba. The best health care minister in all of Canada, Mr. Speaker, I am proud to say.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Doer: They protesteth again. They protesteth too much.

Mr. Speaker, we are training more technicians. The ultrasound waiting lists are too long. We have increased the volume where we are training more sonographers to get on with the job of having more timely ultrasounds in Manitoba. We are training more doctors. It is going to take time to train doctors. You just do not add water and mix to get a doctor.

When you listen to questions from members opposite last year, why are there not more family doctors in Manitoba? Because you cut the family doctor programs here in this province. Four years ago you cut them; now we do not have as many people graduating. We are reversing that, and we are making it a priority for rural and northern students to be admitted to the Faculty of Medicine and be trained and ready to go in rural and northern communities. We are not turning our backs on rural Manitoba. We are not just making speeches in the Legislature on behalf of rural and northern Manitoba; we are going to have more doctors back in the communities where they belong. Again, reversing a trend from members opposite.

We are, beyond the training programs, investing in needed capital programs. Let me start with the community of Brandon. Members opposite and their so-called leader went into that community last week and made insulting comments about the members of the Legislature that the people in Brandon had the wisdom to elect to this Legislature. I will not even repeat the insults that were made by the Leader of the Opposition, but it shows you some arrogance to say to the people of Brandon that they did not have the proper judgment in terms of the people they sent to this Legislature.

If we have to choose between the member from Kirkfield Park, the Leader of the Opposition, and the people of Brandon and what kinds of judgments they will take and make, we will go with the people of Brandon every day of the week. We do not second-guess the knowledge of the people in their areas. We would never, I would never, in my formative years in opposition, go into Lakeside and say they did not know enough about whom to vote for, or go into Morris. You always respect the democratic decisions that other people make. You may not like them, but you always respect them. You do not insult members and, by through that and doing that, insult the people that voted for them. That is a sign of arrogance. That is a sign of the old Conservative belief in the divine right of kings and queens that they will be in office forever, because they have deigned to be so.

Let me tell you the reason why there are two excellent members from Brandon sitting on the Government side. Let us go through the real reasons. Seven times members opposite in government, seven times promised to build a new renovation and capital project at the Brandon Regional Health Centre, the Brandon General health centre, and seven times you broke your word. In 1989, 1990, August of 1990, just before the election campaign was called on August 11, a promise to build the Brandon General Hospital, and cancelled after the election.

It was promised in '92 and cancelled; promised in '93 and cancelled. Then in March of 1995 the former Member for Brandon West (Mr. Smith) promised that if they were re-elected the Brandon General capital project would proceed. Oh, no, Mr. Martin's budget cuts of February that year would not make any difference because the patients of Brandon needed those projects.

It was cancelled in June of 1995. I think it was repromised again just before the 1999 election. Well, you know what? If members opposite ever do a self-analysis of why they lost, it is because they could not keep a promise once, twice, three times, six times, seven times. So, when they are looking for the reasons for why they lost Brandon, instead of going into some cheap, cheap insults at members on our team that members of the public elected, all they had to do was drive three blocks and see a sign that says $58 million to have new investments in Brandon to ensure more out-surgery, more out-patient work, more lab work, more diagnostic care, and a real centre of excellence in the city of Brandon.

We do not have Perimeter vision on this side of the House. We believe in investing in hospitals, in centres outside of Winnipeg to make a difference. [interjection]

The member is so bitter. The member opposite from Fort Whyte is so bitter about his failed attempts to get an arena going that he will do everything in his power to stop the new arena, again proving why we are builders and he is a failure when it comes to getting the job done. [interjection]

Well, the member heckles about the arena and then he does not like the response back. Oh, I am sorry if I hurt the member's feelings. I am really, really sorry.

On Friday, this Minister of Health (Mr Chomiak) announced another capital project to take the oxygen programs that were causing great difficulty for nurses at the women's pavilion and other centres in the Health Sciences Centre, and he has announced that those old portable units will now be replaced with new modern technology. That is the second major capital announcement at the Health Sciences Centre. It follows the other announcement to put more diagnostic equipment in the Health Sciences Centre, which of course builds upon the diagnostic equipment we are putting all across Manitoba–Seven Oaks a couple of weeks ago, Victoria Hospital, the Children's Hospital rehab program, Thompson Hospital, and a new MRI at the Health Sciences Centre; again, more capital but targeted capital for needed health care services.

* (17:10)

Yes, we did buy the Pan Am Clinic and we have doubled the number of procedures that are now going on in that hospital. We are only in second place when it comes to knees and hips, and we are not going to rest on being in second place. We are going to go to first place under these new procedures and new availability.

We are also working very strenuously on preventative health care. We are going to have procedures in place to give the health care minister more authority dealing with West Nile. We have brought in already graduated licence procedures, and I applaud the member from Portage la Prairie (Mr. Faurschou) for helping work on this idea. I applaud him for his efforts. Mr. Speaker, the graduated licences and the way we have introduced it, the research from Nova Scotia and other jurisdictions indicates, in fact, Ontario indicates a 37% reduction in death and accidents.

We have to do more in terms of safety in our training programs. I would like to see more training under the driver ed program on gravel roads. I would like to see more training in areas that can reduce accidents. We know that the driver's education program under the public insurance program is a good program.

I want to thank the car dealerships and the car dealers, the Motor Dealers Association of Manitoba, for helping to donate cars along with the provincial government program and MPI to make this a very, very successful program, public and private ownership working together for kids and for drivers and for the future.

Mr. Speaker, we are going to introduce photo radar legislation that is targeted, as we said, to safety. We looked at some of the research and some of the issues around photo radar. We looked at the fact that members opposite had brought in legislation and never proclaimed it on red lights and intersections. We looked at what is the objective of photo radar legislation, what is the real objective, and, therefore, the legislation should be streamlined and targeted for the objectives that we had set out. We looked at our objectives, and they were safety, safety. The safety issues we thought could be dealt with by proclaiming legislation that the former members had passed and did not proclaim; secondly, having photo radar available in controlled intersections; thirdly, looking at playgrounds; fourthly, school grounds and; fifthly, construction sites. We think that provides for a very balanced approach to allowing these devices to be in place, targeted for safety.

We know in other jurisdictions that they have become successful and we also know that in other jurisdictions that they have become perceived as a "revenue grab," so to speak. Well, for us, we will administer the court system and deal with our costs in a realistic way. This will be, obviously, revenue-neutral for us. We certainly would encourage members opposite–

An Honourable Member: That is what they said when they introduced income tax, too.

Mr. Doer: Oh, yes, income tax. You are going to abolish income tax now, are you? Merv Tweed is going to abolish income tax.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Doer: I am sorry, the member from Turtle Mountain (Mr. Tweed) is going to abolish income tax.

We already had the copy of the fair tax commission report, and it recommended lowering income tax and raising sales tax. What we have done is, we did not raise sales tax when we lowered income tax. We actually have tried to make Government more affordable as we have proceeded in our budgets. In fact, we did not lower income tax and raise property taxes. That is what used to happen. My school taxes, property taxes, doubled in eight years. Well, maybe the Member for Fort Whyte's (Mr. Loewen) taxes did not double in eight years. I suggest maybe it did.

An Honourable Member: That is because you raised income taxes.

Mr. Doer: The member opposite is sucking too many lemons. He is getting too bitter in his old age. Loosen up, relax, be more positive, be optimistic. See the future and seize the future. Do not be so negative.

The member opposite behaved a lot more positively in this House when he was seated beside the member from Springfield (Mr. Schuler). His behaviour is really deteriorating since the two of them have been separated in this Chamber. I think the seating plan for the Leader of the Opposition must be analyzed for its shortcomings that we see with the separation of the inseparable two with this recent change. But I digress.

In my limited time, I want to continue on, on building. When we came into office, the Deloitte & Touche special financial review–I did not want members to get up on a point of order– identified a $200 million deficit in the university and post-secondary capital plans in Manitoba. What did we do about it? Did we continue to drift? Did we continue to go around and say that we have a high-tech economy like the previous members with a leaking engineering faculty roof? Is that the kind of high-tech vision that they envisioned having in the future? We did something about it.

We have now just announced last week, as a result of the $50 million investment over five years that we have put into place, that the university private sector, to their credit, has now pledged $131 million. Further to that, they are targetting $200 million. Again, here, we have confidence in Manitobans. Instead of having leaking engineering faculty roofs, we put our money where Manitobans' investment was needed. It is their money. It is their future. It is our universities and we are going to build leading-edge universities with the private and public campaign that we have going on in this province.

Besides the excellent investment in downtown Winnipeg of Red River community college, the $32 million new campus, and besides the number of courses that we are bringing closer to home in northern Manitoba for Aboriginal people, we are also announcing very important new leading-edge centres for agricultural diversification. The nutraceutical centre, the national centre, announced for Manitoba, is truly a first and truly very, very important to farmers and to researchers and to our future in this province. If we look at the development of new forms of wheat and grain, many of those new inventions were made at the University of Manitoba a number of years ago, and then they became the products of farmers across western Canada and became the food for the world.

* (17:20)

Canola was also developed by Baldur Stefansson at the University of Manitoba and grown in western Canada for people all across the world. That is the future that we see for the University of Manitoba with the nutraceutical centre: new foods, new products, taking agricultural products at its most natural form and adapting those to new diets, to new medical technologies and to tie in with the St. Boniface research investments that we are also making. We see those as very, very positive not only for our diets but for our medicare, for our research, but, most importantly, for our farmers to be able to grow those new crops, those new foods that will be sold all across the world in a $200-billion industry of which Manitoba has the first centre in all of Canada.

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank members opposite and the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Murray) for their great support on the security issues that we have been confronted with. I also want to thank the Member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard) as well. I received a call from the Leader of the Opposition the day of the two planes hitting the New York buildings, the planes that crashed into the Pentagon and the fields of Pennsylvania. He offered his party's support and his caucus's support for the short-term challenges that we were faced with. At that point we heard that it was going to be 40 planes, 60 planes, 80 planes, many going from various lands to the United States. We worked immediately with the U.S. Consul General, Mr. Tadie, who is an excellent addition to our community. We worked with the airport authority, the City of Winnipeg, all airport authorities across the province to make sure we could deal with the short-term challenge.

I want to thank the thousands of Manitoba families that offered their homes, even though the security provisions did not allow us to use those homes. I want to say I want to thank the members for giving us their ideas, continuing to give us advice. We do not see the legislation that is before this House or the procedures that we are looking at or the care that we are trying to provide in any way, shape or form as part of any partisan exercise, and I want to publicly pay tribute to the Opposition Party and opposition members. We believe that all 57 of us have a stake in providing a safe and secure province, a safe and secure country and a safe and secure future for ourselves, for our kids and for our grandchildren. That is more important than anything else we are doing in this House, and again I want to thank them.

I also want to thank them for adding their weight and heft to our meetings with John Manley on water and on security and also with Ambassador Cellucci whom we met with. I also think it is very important that they join with me in presenting the books of condolences to the United States that have been passed on from this Legislature to President Bush. Hundreds and thousands of Manitobans signed on the Net, signed on the book of condolences here in this Legislative Building, and we felt it was important again that all parties present those condolence motions to the President of the United States. Those have been passed on appropriately to the President of the United States, and I thank the members opposite for that work and for that solidarity.

I look forward to working in the same vein on flood protection. We wanted to pay tribute to Duff Roblin directly in the Speech from the Throne for the decisions that he made as premier of this province in the late '50s and early '60s. He said, to his credit, that flood protection was crucial for the ongoing economic stability of the province and the city of Winnipeg. He knew that, if you had a situation where the city of Winnipeg was under threat of flooding every couple of years, this would affect future investments, future growth, future quality of life in this community. To his credit, he has made a great contribution to this province with flood protection all across the province and flood protection in Winnipeg. I recognize there were three components of flood protection with the Winnipeg plan. It was the Shellmouth Dam, where I believe some work was carried on by the subsequent governments, the Portage diversion, and the flood protection in the city of Winnipeg.

Mr. Speaker, we want an all-party committee. Now we are dealing with an IJC report that looks at two options. I have talked with former Premier Roblin. He said the whole option of the Ste. Agathe dam system was one that was proposed to him by engineers, and he could not even consider it because it would flood people south of those devices. It looks like the preliminary reports, all the reports that we have received have the same kind of engineering backup to support the instincts of former Premier Roblin and feelings that some of us held before we got those engineering reports.

I would say to members opposite that want to have broader, more comprehensive stewardship of water, I think that is a good idea. We have an assignment in front of us given to us by the IJC, which is one of the two projects. To me, it is not an either/or. We should have the legislative committee make a decision on a recommendation which system to use because we have to negotiate that with the federal government, and we should continue to look at areas of flood protection and stewardship of water that will provide protection in drought years as well as protection in flood years. I support the ideas of members opposite, the Shellmouth Dam. Obviously, increasing the capacity of the Shellmouth Dam will increase the capacity for potato production in Portage and increase the nutrient level on the Assiniboine River in low water years. That is positive for everybody, and they are obviously the same views we have with the United States on their views of flood protection and mitigation on Devils Lake.

Education and training, Mr. Speaker, is also very important to our future economy. We have had some positive announcements in the last number of weeks, Acsion and Standard Aero, at a time when the aerospace industry is declining, and we have had some negative impacts. The softwood lumber decision is not a trade decision; it is a political decision. We are opposed to it. Of course, the new U.S. farm bill will further distort the subsidies onto the producers in Manitoba and in Canada. If we are going to have a relief in the WTO negotiations for agriculture, and if it is going to take five years, we need a five-year bridging plan from our federal government to bridge the subsidies that the U.S. government is making to the U.S. producers.

Mr. Speaker, I am rushing in my short period of time here. This will be an easier speech to give than the one with the Bombers tonight, believe me. It is not going to be as much fun.

Mr. Speaker, we have discussed the affordable government in our Speech from the Throne. We have taken an affordable, sustainable approach on our Government's affordability, but we are also investing in our future. We are investing in children. I am proud of the fact that the first program in all of the western world to put investments into prenatal programs for children on a universal basis has been introduced in this House. You know, it is not divided up by jurisdictions or it is not all of us running around saying: It is not my job. We believe a child is a child is a child and an undernourished child is an undernourished child. If we could have 10 less undernourished kids a year, we would have made a great significant investment, and we are hoping we will have even more positive results.

We are building our options for hydro development in the North. We are building rural support with water, agricultural diversification, and we have brought in comparable and equal hydro rates in all of Manitoba. Again, I could not believe the mighty Conservative Party of the past getting up in Question Period last year saying: Oh, will you not refer this to the PUB; will you not refer this to the Public Utilities Board; take your election promises and send it to some third party. Mr. Speaker, did Douglas Campbell build the rural electrification program or Tommy Douglas in Saskatchewan by referring it to somebody else? They went out and did it. I think members opposite looked weak when they went out and stated that we should take something like this, not take leadership, but go and take it to the PUBs. Members opposite that turned their backs on rural Manitoba with drainage programs. We are reversing that, Mr. Speaker.

Our future includes all Manitobans. We are an inclusive government. Aboriginal people will be part of our new hydro-electric proposals and projects. We will not, we will not leave people behind as we build for the future. We will have all our people involved in a very, very optimistic future, Mr. Speaker. We are going to build downtown communities. We are going to build the downtown arena, the new library, the new Ashdown centre, the new Red River community college. We are not going to abandon downtown Winnipeg. We are going to build that new hospital in Brandon. We are going to build those new projects in rural Manitoba. We are going to build the roads in northern Manitoba. We are not going to neglect it, and we believe in Manitoba. We are optimistic about our present, and we are optimistic about our future. Join us in building Manitoba for the future.

Mr. Speaker: Pursuant to subrule 43.(4), I am interrupting the proceedings in order to put the question on the motion of the honourable Member for Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen); that is, the motion for an address in reply to the Speech from the Throne. Do members wish to have the motion read?

Some Honourable Members: No.

Mr. Speaker: Dispense?

Some Honourable Members: Dispense.

Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Some Honourable Members: Yes.

Some Honourable Members: No.

Mr. Speaker: All those in favour of the motion, please say yea.

Some Honourable Members: Yea.

Mr. Speaker: All those opposed, please say nay.

Some Honourable Members: Nay.

Mr. Speaker: In my opinion, the Yeas have it.

Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): On division, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker: On division.

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Six o'clock.

Mr. Speaker: Is it the will of the House to call it 6 o'clock? [Agreed]

The hour being 6 p.m., this House is adjourned and stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow (Tuesday).