LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Wednesday, March 13, 2024


The House met at 1:30 p.m.

The Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O  merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom, and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of our people. Amen.

      We acknowledge that we are gathered on Treaty 1 territory and that Manitoba is located on the treaty territories and ancestral lands of the Anishinaabeg, Anishininewuk, Dakota Oyate, Denesuline and Nehethowuk nations. We acknowledge Manitoba is located on the Homeland of the Red River Métis. We acknowledge northern Manitoba includes lands that were and are the ancestral lands of the Inuit. We respect the spirit and intent of treaties and treaty making and remain committed to working in partner­ship with First Nations, Inuit and Métis people in the spirit of truth, reconciliation and collaboration.

      Please be seated.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

Introduction of Bills

Bill 18–The Community Child Care Standards Amendment Act

Hon. Nello Altomare (Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): I move, seconded by the Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care (MLA Asagwara), that Bill 18, The Com­mu­nity Child Care Standards Amend­ment Act, be now read a first time.

Motion presented.

MLA Altomare: Child Care Standards Act to enable funding to be flowed directly to post-secondary institu­tions to support the construction of learning labs for their early learning and child care training and education program.

      This is an important step, Honourable Speaker, in our government's commitments to develop a comprehen­­sive strategy for recruiting and retaining early childhood educators.

      Miigwech, merci and thank you.

The Speaker: Further introduction of bills?

      Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?  [Agreed]

Bill 19–The Drivers and Vehicles Amendment Act

Hon. Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Edu­ca­tion and Early Child­hood Learning (MLA Altomare), that Bill 19, The Drivers and Vehicles Amend­ment Act, be now read a first time.

Motion presented.

Mr. Wiebe: Hon­our­able Speaker, I'm pleased to intro­­duce Bill 19, The Drivers and Vehicles Amend­ment Act.

      This bill contains amend­ments to The Drivers and Vehicles Act that will enable Manitoba Public Insurance to apply provisions dealing with written-off, salvageable and irreparable motor vehicles and heavy trailers.

      The proposed amend­ments to The Drivers and Vehicles Act will allow MPI to designate trailers for the status that accurately reflects their roadworthy con­­­­di­tion and claims history, improving road safety and con­sumer pro­tec­tion. The amend­ments will apply to heavy trailers, those with a gross vehicle weight rating of over 4,500 kilograms.

      I'm pleased to present this bill to the House for its con­sid­era­tion.

The Speaker: Is it the will of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed]

Bill 20–The Highway Traffic Amendment Act

Hon. Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Transpor­tation and Infra­structure and Consumer Protec­tion and Gov­ern­ment Services, that Bill 20, The Highway Traffic Amend­ment Act, be now read a first time.

Motion presented.

Mr. Wiebe: I'm pleased to introduce Bill 20, The Highway Traffic Amend­ment Act.

      This bill amends The Highway Traffic Act to pre­vent impaired drivers who agreed to alter­na­tive mea­sures from appealing to the Licence Suspension Appeal Board if they have their driver's licence suspended for failing to comply with terms of the program.

      Barring appeals of licence suspensions will pre­vent individuals from delaying the installation of the ignition interlock device, and therefore support measures that combat impaired driving. Closing this loophole will improve road safety and protect Manitoba families.

      I'm pleased to present this bill to the House for its con­sid­era­tion.

      Thank you.

The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed]

Bill 21–The Public Schools Amendment Act

Hon. Nello Altomare (Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): I move, seconded by the Minister of Justice and the Attorney General of Manitoba, that Bill 21, The Public Schools Amend­ment Act, be now read a first time.

Motion presented.

MLA Altomare: This bill proposes amend­ments to The Public Schools Act to facilitate student attend­ance in school by removing barriers that prevent stu­dents from attending their local school when they do not reside with their parents or legal guardians, and to change the right to attend school-age and compulsory school-age programs.

      This is im­por­tant to support and encourage school attendance, which we know is directly linked to student achieve­ment, graduation rates, transition to post-secondary, em­ploy­ment and social inclusion.

      Miigwech, merci and thank you, Hon­our­able Speaker.

The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed]

      Com­mit­tee reports? Tabling of reports? Min­is­terial statements?

Members' Statements

Nepali Cultural Society of Manitoba

MLA Jennifer Chen (Fort Richmond): Honourable Speaker, today I want to honour the Nepali com­munity in Manitoba, specifically the Nepali Cultural Society of Manitoba.

      I have had the privilege of living near, working alongside and advocating with the Nepali community in south Winnipeg over the past 10 years.

* (13:40)

      The Nepali Cultural Society's programming ranges from cultural events, women's engagement programs, youth development, programs for Nepali seniors and traditional and national games of cultural importance.

      The Nepali community members make great con­tributions to our society every day. They work in dif­ferent areas of government services and non-profit work, and many are business owners.

      It is incredible for the next generation to have such strong cultural knowledge of their community. Future generations should feel welcomed, valued and empowered to contribute to the common good, and proud of their Nepali heritage.

      Although the Nepali community is comparatively small, it is growing and thriving. Recognizing com­munities, whether small or large, is important to ensure their voice is at the table.

      In April, the Nepali community will be cele­brating Nepali New Year 2081. It is absolutely one of my favourite Nepali festivals. When you get to know the Nepali community, you will immediately feel com­fortable with their hospitality and be moved by their bright smile, happiness and peace.

      As the MLA for Fort Richmond, I feel blessed to have the Nepali Cultural Society of Manitoba in Fort Richmond. And I am grateful for calling many of you my friends.

      Happy Nepali new year. Nepali naya barsha ko subhakamana [Good wishes for the new year].

      I want to invite my colleagues to join me in thanking them for their hard work, dedication and commitment to our communities in Manitoba.

      Thank you. Dhanyabad [Thank you].

The Speaker: I need to recog­nize the hon­our­able mem­ber for Fort Richmond again. The hon­our­able member for Fort Richmond.

MLA Chen: Sorry; I would like to add the 12 guests' names who–present today to Hansard.

Lila Adhikari, Tika Adhikari, Subas Dahal, Bishal Dhakal, Sunita Dhakal, Shyam Ghimire, Nabin Katel, Ashish Mishra, Manika Pradhan, Purushottam Raj Singh, Tara Subedi, Deepak Timsina.

Kate Cameron

Mr. Konrad Narth (La Vérendrye): Thank you, Honourable Speaker, for being able to recognize the tremendous sporting accomplishment of a La Vérendrye constituent.

      Kate Cameron, a Canadian curler hailing from the great community of New Bothwell and representing Manitoba, recently skipped her team of Mackenzie Elias, Meghan Walter and Kelsey Rocque to the third place finish at the 2024 Scotties Tournament of Hearts.

      Cameron, who currently curls out of the Granite Curling Club in Winnipeg, snagged the sixth and final Hearts payoff position.

      Cameron is not new to curling. Success started with a U16 provincial cham­pion­ship in 2008. Then in 2017 Cameron's team achieved remarkable success by winning the Manitoba Scotties Tournament of Hearts, defeating Olympic champion Jennifer Jones, securing a spot at the 2017 Scotties. From here Cameron had gone on to representing Alberta in the Scotties playing as a third.

      Cameron returned to her home province of Manitoba to skip this season for the first time in a decade with a completely new team.

      Cameron had a bumpy start to the season. During the first four of five events, Cameron played with almost no vision due to laser eye surgery. Her second, Taylor McDonald, faced challenges of playing while pregnant and was swapped out just prior to the Scotties. Adding to the challenges, Cameron's team was down to three players in one game of the Scotties due to Meghan Walter falling ill.

      Despite adversity, Team Manitoba-Cameron walked away with the bronze medal at the Scotties after qualifying with a wild-card spot. They turned heads and won games that people weren't expecting.

      The community of New Bothwell gathered to cele­brate Cameron's accomplishment at an event to honour her February 29 at the New Bothwell Rec Centre. It was here that I was able to present–

The Speaker: The hon­our­able member's time has expired.

      Is there leave for the member to finish his statement? [Agreed]

Mr. Narth: It was here that I was able to present recognition for the team's tremendous accomplishment.

      Kate Cameron's journey in the world of curling is a testament to her skill, deter­min­ation and love for the sport. I wish her and her team much continued success.

Burma Bushie–Rocky Mountain Woman

Hon. Ian Bushie (Minister of Municipal and Northern Relations): I rise today to pay respect and admiration to Burma Bushie, spiritually known by her traditional name of Rocky Mountain Woman.

      A proud member of the Hollow Water First Nation, Burma was a day school and residential school survivor.

      Burma continuously broke the ceiling for Indigenous women of her generation, and her legacy lives on today to continuously break that ceiling for genera­tions to come.

      Burma was proof that Indigenous women are strong, resilient, dedi­cated and will always have their matriarchal impact on society.

      Burma was a trailblazer and visionary in every aspect of her life, from being the first com­mu­nity-based executive director of Southeast Child & Family Services to the co-founder of the com­mu­nity-based Community Holistic Circle Healing–or CHCH–Program, a restorative justice program in the Hollow Water First Nation, a program that is internationally known for its com­mu­nity-based work with victims, families and offenders that are suffering the impacts of inter­generational harms on Indigenous people.

      Burma was a tireless advocate for Indigenous people, for her culture and her language. She helped implement the grandmothers program into the Wanipigow School. The grandmothers program is having a profound impact on the students, teachers and the elders themselves so that elders can share their language and lived experiences with the students.

      And I must say, Honourable Speaker, it gives you an overwhelming sense of love to see that interaction in the school environment with our community elders and students.

      She was famous for saying, we need to focus on the children and bringing spirit back to our people, and also for saying, we need to bring women back to a place of honour.

      Her tireless work for Indigenous people speaks for itself. I was honoured to present Burma with the queen's jubilee and in that, Honourable Speaker, she had some hesitation as to whether to accept: one was because of the Crown's historic relationship with Indigenous people, and two was because the Chamber was not always welcoming to Indigenous people, let alone to an Indigenous woman.

      Honourable Speaker, we had a long talk about what having her join me here in the Legislature for the queen's jubilee presentation meant for Indigenous people today. It was truly an honour for her to join me in person, along with the first female premier of Manitoba, to present her with the queen's jubilee medal.

      And now today, Honourable Speaker, I will proud­ly say the name Burma Bushie in this Chamber, for it is due to her resilience and perseverance for Indigenous people that I myself am able to stand here today.

      Burma was proof that Indigenous women are strong, are resilient and have done great things and will–

The Speaker: The hon­our­able minister's time is expired.

      Is there leave for the minister to finish his state­ment? [Agreed]

Mr. Bushie: Burma was proof that Indigenous women are strong, are resilient and have done great things and will continue to do great things as the matriarchs of our society.

      Hon­our­able Speaker, in June of last year Burma passed into the spirit world but I wholeheartedly know that she is with us today. And to her children Michelle, Derek, Kelly and Shavonne, I want to say miigwech for sharing your mother with us.

      Honourable Speaker, I ask for a moment of silence to pay respect to Burma for all her work, dedication and resilience for Indigenous people and for society as a whole, for we are all at a better place for having had her in our lives.

The Speaker: Is there leave for a moment of silence? [Agreed]

A moment of silence was observed.

Canadian Border Services Agency

Mr. Doyle Piwniuk (Turtle Mountain): I rise today to recognize the incredible dedication and hard work of men and women of the Canadian Border Services Agency.

      This January, officers at Boissevain intercepted and seized over 406 kilograms of meth bound for Winnipeg. Crown attorneys have estimated that these three–this is enough doses for three people for every Manitoban, and be representing over $50 million that organized criminals were deprived of.

      This was reported as the largest narcotics seizure in prairie region history, which is not a record no one wants to set, though we are all thankful for the recipients never received these drugs.

      We have had many 'controversations' in this Chamber about addressing illegal drugs, and while we are fundamentally disagree on the solutions, I want to hope that each and every member of this Chamber can agree that taking a semi-trailer of narcotics out of the hands of criminals is making our communities safer.

      It was disappointing to see that neither the minister of addictions nor the Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe) acknowledged the important work, but I hope they can join me and all Manitobans in confirming these officers for protecting our communities and keeping drugs off the streets.

* (13:50)

      On behalf of all Manitobans I want to thank the CBSA and the RCMP officers for–that they do their duty day in, day out to protect our com­mu­nities. Large actions such as this brings the vital work to the forefront, Hon­our­able Speaker.

      Thank you.

Hoffman's Fine Foods

MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I rise this afternoon to share a bit about a small business in Tyndall Park, called Hoffmann's Fine Foods.

      Hoffmann's Fine Foods was established in 1986 by Klaus Hoffmann. He ran a family catering business while working as head of Red River College's culinary arts program.

      In the late 1980s, he decided to put a sign out in front of the catering office located at 107 Plymouth St. This sign advertised their homemade chicken fingers.

      The initial response was so good that Klaus added a retail component to the catering and food-manu­facturing busi­ness, and in 1996, the family opened a retail store in the lucky con­stit­uency of Riel.

      The impressive production site I spoke of, located in Tyndall Park, has a storefront and is owned by a strong woman named Brhan Abrha, who has joined us today in the gallery.

      Honourable Speaker, I have witnessed first-hand how their products are made. All of their delicious products are specialized, predominantly chicken-based and are homemade-style. These include chicken fingers, chicken Kiev and chicken cordon bleu. And my favour­ite is the brie-filled chicken.

      Something unique and commendable about Hoffmann's Fine Foods is that they go out of their way to hire youth, including youth from visible minority groups. They train and give them the opportunity to become successful in their future careers.

      Now, we know that small businesses are the back­bone of our economy and that the food industry is facing challenges with supply chains at this time, and this requires our attention.

      We all need to support businesses, especially small businesses that are run by women and put a special focus on youth. And so, I would like to sincerely thank this gov­ern­ment for their recent support for this small busi­ness.

      In closing, Honourable Speaker, Hoffman's Fine Foods is a family and a team. They work excep­tionally hard, provide delicious food made with local products and contribute immensely to our province.

      I'd like to ask my colleagues to join me today in recognizing them.

Oral Questions

Prov­incial Finances
Borrowing Inquiry

Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): The Premier recently announced the up­coming budget date on his trip to Toronto, signalling that he has no in­ten­tion of putting Manitobans first. Perhaps it's because he intends on sending more and more of Manitoban's hard‑earned money to Bay Street.

      The question is a simple one today, Hon­our­able Speaker: How much money has the NDP gov­ern­ment borrowed in their first six months?

Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): We're cleaning up a sig­ni­fi­cant fiscal mess that was less–left by the mem­ber opposite and the others who sat at the Cabinet table prior to the recent election.

      I wonder, though, if the member opposite is going to follow his recycled questions by going out into the hallway and making more divisive comments again today.

      You know that yesterday, not only did he make divisive comments about pronouns, he also told The Canadian Press, and I quote here, whether it's the topic of pronouns, whether it's some other topics in the edu­ca­tion world. End quote. That's what he means when he makes these divisive comments.

      So, I really would like him to clarify for the people of Manitoba: What are these other topics that he's speaking of? Beyond pronouns, what does he want to put on the table in terms of dividing Manitobans? Surely, he doesn't want to revisit con­ver­sa­tions about LGBTQ kids. Surely he doesn't want to put health curricula in the con­ver­sa­tion.

      So, please, I would ask him to clarify his comments–

The Speaker: Premier's time has expired.

      The Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supple­mentary question.

Mr. Ewasko: Obviously, the Premier today is trying to stand up and distract from the questions that we're asking.

      And I think possibly it's because he just does not know the answers, Hon­our­able Speaker. For his bene­fit and the benefit of all members, I would like to table the following recent order-in-council authorizing bor­row­ing to the tune of nearly $10 billion. December, $7 billion. Mid-January, $1.5 billion. Mid-January, $500 million. Mid-January, $250 million. And in February, $700 million.

      For context, the NDP's borrowing exceeds what was borrowed by past gov­ern­ments during pandemic years and Premier Selinger's floods.

      Why is the NDP hiding their borrowing of almost $10 billion from Manitobans?

Mr. Kinew: We had to refinance the debt that was accumulated under the PCs at record amounts. Again, everyone knows that the 2020 deficit and the other pandemic deficits were among the largest ever. Those roll over. We have to refinance that. We're cleaning up the fiscal mess that they left behind.

      But I wonder who will clean up the mess that is being caused by the member opposite's divisive com­mentary. He goes out into the hallway and he makes comments dividing Manitobans one against the other and, of course, he puts the issue of pronouns on the table, but then he also says that there are some other topics in the world of edu­ca­tion that he wants to revisit.

      What are those topics that he wants to revisit? Hopefully, it does not include LGBT issues that were hard-fought for in this Chamber and across the pro­vince. Hopefully, he doesn't want to revisit health curricula. Hopefully he doesn't want to put birth control–

The Speaker: The Premier's time has expired.

      The Leader of the Official Op­posi­tion, on a final sup­ple­mentary.

Mr. Ewasko: Obviously, obviously, the Premier wants to distract from the abysmal record of not only his doing but his Cabinet minister's, Hon­our­able Speaker.

      Today we're hearing and we're seeing and this is news to the Premier, I'm sure, as well, that borrow­ing before opening up the spending floodgates, Honourable Speaker. Despite the Premier's fictional forecast, PCs left him with a over a quarter‑of-a-billion-dollar surplus.

      Now, since the NDPs have been in charge in October, they've borrowed nearly $10 billion interest which will cost more than a half a billion dollars each and every year.

      Will the Premier stand up today and defend giving Manitobans a higher debt cost?

Mr. Kinew: We're cleaning up the mess left by the PCs.

      I also want to clean up the mess caused by the PCs when they want to act like people who use different pronouns are some­thing that our children need to be protected from. I am a parent with kids in the public school system. My colleague from Union Station, my colleague from Kirkfield Park are not people that my kids need to be protected from.

      In fact, if my boys grow up to show some small measure of the courage, integrity and grace of my colleagues, I will die a happy man knowing that my work as a father was suc­cess­ful.

      We are going to continue calling this out each and every single day because the real thing that kids in Manitoba need to be protected from is hatred and bigotry.

Prov­incial Taxes
Affordability Concerns

Mr. Obby Khan (Fort Whyte): Hon­our­able Speaker, they say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. So on this side of the House, we say thank you to the Minister of Finance (MLA Sala) for copy­ing the PCs.

      It is clear this NDP gov­ern­ment has no plan to make life more affordable for Manitobans. We just heard the Premier. He has no plan other than taking credit for what previous PC gov­ern­ment had–did with tax savings.

      Everyone in Manitoba was happy to see the ads, but little did they know it was the previous PCs, not the NDP. This minister and his entire team voted against our PC tax cuts.

      It takes a lot of courage to admit you were wrong. Will the minister stand up today and say he was wrong for voting against the tax cuts that make life more affordable for Manitobans?

Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): We're advertising our tax cuts because we're the team that's putting in the hard work of figuring out how we are going to pay for these things.

* (14:00)

      But let's talk about ads. Let's talk about ads from the poster child from this divisive rhetoric, the person who've brought this out into the public sphere. I invite the member opposite to explain to the people of Manitoba why he wants to put on the table for dis­cussion division and hatred rather than bringing people together to do things like fixing health care or making life more affordable.

      Can he please clarify his thoughts on trans children and their rights in our schools today?

The Speaker: The hon­our­able member for Fort Whyte, on a sup­ple­mentary question.

Upcoming Carbon Tax Increase
Federal Rebate for Business

Mr. Obby Khan (Fort Whyte): Hon­our­able Speaker, to be clear now, that's four questions on the province's finances and zero answers from this Premier.

      Manitobans are going to wake up to a 23 per cent carbon tax increase on April 1. Despite the NDP‑Trudeau talking points about carbon tax rebates, Ottawa still owes more than $3,000 to over 43,000 busi­nesses. That's $130 million. Saskatchewan deputy premier and finance minister have sent a letter to Ottawa calling on them to release this money.

      Will this Minister of Finance (MLA Sala) and Premier do the right thing, stand up for Manitobans and send a letter? And just for the record, I'll table this so they can copy another docu­ment.

Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): Standing up for the people of Manitoba is some­thing that we do each and every day. The letter to ask for Manitoba's share of the $144 million has already been sent. Because again, on this side of the House, we put the work in first and we put out the press releases later, unlike the member opposite.

      But when we're talking about publicity, I do have to call the member out for the ads that he was the poster boy for that were very divisive, that were very harmful to people in Manitoba. There was a lot of dust kicked up during the election, and then poof. After October 3, the issue disappeared.

      It seems that it was very craven; it was very divisive; it was very calculated. But I'll give the member opposite the op­por­tun­ity to clarify his views today.

      Does he support the rights of trans children in Manitoba?

The Speaker: The hon­our­able member for Fort Whyte, on a final sup­ple­mentary question.

Provincial Taxes
Affordability Concerns

Mr. Obby Khan (Fort Whyte): Hon­our­able Speaker, I know the Premier's doing his role. He doesn't under­stand how question period works. That's five ques­tions now on finances and zero answers from this Premier.

      This gov­ern­ment has been flip-flopping like a pickerel on a dock since they took office. When they debated the budget last year, tax cuts were evil, and now they voted for them. Suddenly this minister has seen the error in his ways.

      Now, Liberal Premier of Newfoundland, Andrew Furey, has joined the call of six other premiers across Canada and across party lines to make life more affordable for their provinces.

      When will the Minister of Finance (MLA Sala)–I guess the Premier, since the Premier won't let the Minister of Finance speak, stand up, do the right thing and stand on the side of Manitobans to make life more affordable?

Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): One of our first actions was to take the 14 cents a litre fuel tax off of Manitobans' backs. That's some­thing that the member opposite charged every single day when he served in the prov­incial gov­ern­ment.

      But in his des­per­ate bid to try and hang on to power, he was the face of very divisive ads which we know targeted trans youth in our province.

      Now we hear that he's enter­taining thoughts of running for leader. I wonder how he's going to talk to Pride Winnipeg when he begs for the right to be able to march in the parade this year. He's going to be hemming and hawing and, oh, you've got to under­stand what the campaigns are like and what the party asked of me. Please, please, please let me march.

      No. On this side–moral clarity. We support young people, no matter how they choose to identify and we know that they deserve to be safe. And we will stand up against the bullies every time they want to engage on this topic.

STARS Air Ambulance
Licence Renewal Inquiry

Mr. Josh Guenter (Borderland): Hon­our­able Speaker, there are many families in my con­stit­uency and across this province that thank STARS for the fact that terrible days were not infinitely worse. In our com­mu­nity, STARS has been a lifeline and is a lifeline that almost everyone has either been impacted by or knows someone who has.  

      In March of 2022 a two-year extension on their licence was signed.

      Can the minister of gov­ern­ment services and consumer pro­tec­tion commit to Manitobans that she will renew this agree­ment?

Hon. Lisa Naylor (Minister of Consumer Protection and Government Services): Thank you to the member opposite for that question.

      I'm glad to finally have a chance to stand up in this session to answer a question. It gives me the op­por­tun­ity to remind folks on the other side of the House what a mess they made of health care.

      You know, it's gratifying to hear that there was a handful of people that got some service during–under the previous gov­ern­ment. But all we've heard is the lack of health care, the cuts that were made in health care and how many people were flown out of province to access health care instead of being able to access it here at home.

The Speaker: The honourable member for Borderland, on a supplementary question.

Mr. Guenter: Hon­our­able Speaker, the question is about STARS, a service that has in­cred­ible support across the province.

      The member–the minister would prefer to talk about health care and we can talk about the 22 ERs that they closed in rural Manitoba, but rural Manitobans know that STARS is there for them in their very worst days.

      And so, this gov­ern­ment needs to come forward now and clarify whether or not they have the in­ten­tion to renew the contract. They owe it to each and every Manitoban to own their decision here and now.

MLA Naylor: Thank you to the member opposite for that question.

      If there's any question about the value of health care to–for Manitobans, I want to say clearly that this  gov­ern­ment in every de­part­ment supports our health‑care mission. That includes in our gov­ern­ment services de­part­ment.

      We know how essential air flight services are to Manitobans, parti­cularly in rural and northern and other remote areas of the province.

      So I want to assure Manitobans that the health‑care service you need will be here for you. That is a part of our agenda as gov­ern­ment.

The Speaker: The honourable member for Borderland, on a final sup­ple­mentary question.

Mr. Guenter: Hon­our­able Speaker, no political dancing around, no games. This is a life-and-death–this is life-and-death matter for Manitobans. Manitobans deserve more than hope. They deserve a sense of safety and security. This NDP gov­ern­ment has no right to infringe on that.

      And I get–I understand that they may be ideologically opposed, but I ask this minister a simple question: Will she let her ideology get in the way of life‑saving emergency services for Manitobans?

MLA Naylor: I'm–I do ap­pre­ciate the op­por­tun­ity to thank STARS on behalf of our gov­ern­ment.

      I know that they've had the op­por­tun­ity to meet with our Health Minister, and so that we have a good under­standing of their work and we're grateful for the work that they do provide to folks across the province.

      It's unfor­tunate that the previous gov­ern­ment made such a mess of our health‑care system, cut so many services, but Manitobans can count on this gov­ern­ment going forward to put their needs first.

Manitoba Prov­incial Nominee Program
Application Approval Process and Backlogs

Ms. Jodie Byram (Agassiz): It was a PC gov­ern­ment that esta­blished the Manitoba Prov­incial Nominee Program, and it was our PC team here that expanded it.

      This Minister of Labour and Immigration has chosen to ignore the fact that it was our PC team that brought in 170,000 immigrant workers and created an advisory council.

      It is the NDP that is ignoring this file with applica­tions being backlogged for eight months and ignored.

      How will this minister address the thousands of applicants in the queue and eliminate the backlog?

Hon. Malaya Marcelino (Minister of Labour and Immigration): Thank you to the member opposite for her question.

      On this side of the House, it is going to be our honour to be able to welcome many more new­comers to Manitoba, and their families. And we're going to be doing that with an aim for more family reunification because we know that that's what Manitobans want.

      We're going to be doing that by also meeting the needs of com­mu­nities and employers across this pro­vince by meeting with them and under­standing what they need to make sure that we'll be bringing thou­sands of new­comers here and helping them integrate into Manitoba.

* (14:10)

      Thank you, Hon­our­able Speaker.

The Speaker: The hon­our­able member for Agassiz, on a sup­ple­mentary question.

Ms. Byram: We currently have MPNP applicants here to provide for the labour force needed. What is it the Minister of Labour and Immigration going to tell those applicants who have completed ad­di­tional edu­ca­tion, met the language standards, completed the ad­di­tional work ex­per­ience and they surpass the scoring benchmark, Mr. Speaker?

      But based on the new NDP policy put in this–put in place, these draws have become irregular, random and excludes many applicants who are here in the queue and ready to work.

      What is this minister going to tell these people when their application for MPNP is denied and they must leave our country?

MLA Marcelino: Thank you to the member for their question.

      This gov­ern­ment is so laser focused in making sure that we are putting all the resources that we can to improving this process and making sure that we can get through as many applications as we can. At this time there are tens and tens of thousands of applica­tions, and we have a federal allotment that is a lot less than that. So we are choosing the best and the brightest from all over the world to join Manitoba.

      Thank you, Hon­our­able Speaker.

The Speaker: The hon­our­able member for Agassiz, on a final sup­ple­mentary question.

Ms. Byram: Immigration in Manitoba contributes greatly to the diversity while contributing to economic growth and prosperity, all while con­sid­ering fairness and inclusive busi­ness. We have many people here in Manitoba waiting, ready and willing to work.

      However, the minister is on the record stating, we are going to make sure that we focus on the right kind of immigrants to come to our 'coundry'–country.

      So I would have to ask the minister: Can she elaborate on who she feels is the wrong kind of immigrant?

MLA Marcelino: Thank you to member opposite for their question.

      You know, due to the years and years and years of PC cuts to this de­part­ment, we were not able to welcome 2,000 people from other countries to come here to Manitoba and their families. That's 2,000 people that we had to say no to, that we had that federal allotment for, due to their excessive cuts.

      Because there was nobody driving this de­part­ment, this–due to the PC mis­manage­ment on immi­gration. We had an Immigration minister that didn't even know the difference between a permanent–

The Speaker: Minister's time has expired.

Internationally Educated Health-Care Workers
Recruitment and Settlement Funding

Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Roblin): We know the NDP gov­ern­ment is on the record saying, no workers came over through the Filipino nurse recruitment program. That's patently untrue; I've met them myself.

      We also know that the NDP gov­ern­ment cut funding to this program without having any plan of their own to train, recruit or retain health-care workers in Manitoba. And, of course, we know that we are in a worldwide health-care staffing crisis, and now, as detailed in these docu­ments that I'll table today, we know the NDP are directly blocking more health-care workers from coming into Manitoba.

      My question today is simple: Why?

Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): Hon­our­able Speaker, our No. 1 priority as a gov­ern­ment is the No. 1 priority of Manitobans across the province, and that is health care.

      And it's been wonderful to hear directly from folks across Manitoba, including front-line health-care workers, who shared their ideas, their hopes, their concerns and, quite frankly, their dreams for health care here in Manitoba.

      And I have to say, the resounding feedback that I've received, the Premier's (Mr. Kinew) received and are listening to, are some­thing that the members opposite are very critical of, is that they feel hopeful for the first time in a long time that they have a gov­ern­ment who cares about health care.

      Manitobans were let down by the previous gov­ern­ment. We're taking a different approach, and we're getting the work done.

The Speaker: The hon­our­able member for Roblin, on a sup­ple­mentary question.

Mrs. Cook: These are nurses who dreamed of work­ing in our health-care system, and they've had their hopes dashed by this NDP gov­ern­ment. They were told Shared Health was stuck in talks with the gov­ern­ment for three months, and then suddenly their job offers were withdrawn. We need every nurse and health-care aide we can get in Manitoba, and this NDP gov­ern­ment is slamming the door shut.

      Will this Health Minister do the right thing and commit to reinstating the recruitment and resettlement funding today?

MLA Asagwara: Hon­our­able Speaker, staffing a health-care system is the most im­por­tant step that we as a gov­ern­ment have to take in order to make sure that the health care Manitobans depend on will be there for them.

      That's a very different approach than the previous gov­ern­ment. The member opposite is well aware of the fact that the PCs fired nurses, they cut health care, they froze the wages of health-care workers and drove them out of health care, some folks out of our province.

      Now I'll say spe­cific­ally that what the member is presenting today is patently false. That money has not been frozen. But I will say also that the previous minister under the previous failed gov­ern­ment took a trip, spent millions of dollars to not even meet their own target of 300 nurses from the Philippines here by July of last year.

      Our gov­ern­ment's taking a different approach. We're getting things done for Manitobans.

The Speaker: The honourable member for Roblin, on a final sup­ple­mentary question.

Mrs. Cook: Hon­our­able Speaker, the NDP has no plan to increase staffing in Manitoba. If they have a–where is it? Where's the plan? Not only have they failed to produce a plan, they've closed the doors to health-care workers who want to come here.

      These nurses were willing to change course and come as health-care aides if need be. They were willing to do whatever it took to come to Manitoba and work here. Still they were denied because the NDP is putting politics ahead of the needs of patients.

      Why would the NDP slam the door on these health-care workers? Is it because they consider them to be the wrong kind of immigrant?

MLA Asagwara: Hon­our­able Speaker, I think the member opposite is a little bit confused. She's talking about an approach rooted in division, quite frankly hatred, that has been perpetuated by the previous gov­ern­ment, perpetuated during the past election, perpetuated even to this day by members on that side of the House.

      On this side of the House, we welcome health-care workers of all back­grounds, of all identities, to be a part of our health-care team here in Manitoba. Now, it's a shame that the previous gov­ern­ment's own target of hiring 300 nurses to our health-care system by July of last year was an abject failure.

      But our gov­ern­ment is continuing to welcome those, no matter where they come from, to be a part of our health-care system, and we're taking a better approach. We're saying to Manitobans that no matter who you are and how you identify, health care in Manitoba is a–

The Speaker: Minister's time has expired.

STARS Air Ambulance Services
Contract Renewal Inquiry for Interlake-Gimli

Mr. Derek Johnson (Interlake-Gimli): Hon­our­able Speaker, I have the honour and the privilege of repre­sen­ting the people of Interlake-Gimli. Long travel distances of individuals that need to seek emergency care on the other side of the con­stit­uency due to NDP emergency-room closures means that travel time from one extreme to another can be upwards of three hours.

      Last years, STARS flew 28 missions to Ashern alone, allowing patients to receive care 400 per cent faster than being transported by ambulance. STARS plays an absolutely vital role in provi­ding timely emergency medical trans­por­tation.

      Will the minister of Gov­ern­ment Services pro­mise the people of Interlake-Gimli that they can continue to trust STARS with their lives?

Hon. Lisa Naylor (Minister of Consumer Protection and Government Services): Again, I thank the member opposite for their question.

      I will repeat what I said earlier. Health care is a top priority for this gov­ern­ment. We're taking an all-of-gov­ern­ment approach to help care, so it's a pleasure for me to get to affirm that message on behalf of our Health Minister and our Premier (Mr. Kinew).

      And I will just say that it's–I think it's silly that someone on the other side of the House thinks that con­tracts that may be under negotiation are up for discussion in the public sphere while they're being negotiated.

The Speaker: The honourable member for Interlake-Gimli, on a supplementary question.

* (14:20)

Mr. Johnson: Hon­our­able Speaker, Interlake-Gimli has a popu­la­tion of just under 2 per cent of Manitoba's total popu­la­tion. Yet, in '22-23, it accounted for 7 per cent of STARS' 697 missions flown.

      They flew 50 missions to multiple com­mu­nities, 50 people whose lives have been saved because of STARS. With nearly 20 ERs closed under the NDP gov­ern­ment regime, STARS has become the de facto ER for rural Manitoba.

      Does this minister intend to renew the STARS contract and let STARS save another 50 lives in Interlake-Gimli this year?

Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): Hon­our­able Speaker, I ap­pre­ciate the question because it gives me an op­por­tun­ity to say thank you to all of those folks who work as part of the STARS team. These are doctors that I've actually known for a few years, who do in­cred­ible work. Their team is highly, highly expert, and in the meeting with STARS, I learned a lot about not only what are they doing in Manitoba, but some of the innovations that are happening in that area of health care right now.

      I will say that part of the pressures we're seeing in the Interlake are a direct result of the previous gov­ern­ment closing major ERs right here in Winnipeg, and that's unfor­tunate. The actions of the previous gov­ern­ment has con­se­quences. We're cleaning up the mess that they made in health care, and we're doing that work every single day.

The Speaker: The honourable member for Interlake-Gimli, on a final sup­ple­mentary question.

Mr. Johnson: Those doctors that she talks about has STARS–has these same questions: will the contract be renewed? NDP closure of nearly 20 ERs in rural Manitoba hinders the health for rural Manitobans.

      Our previous PC gov­ern­ment improved the health services available to rural Manitobans. We built hospitals in Portage la Prairie, Neepawa; upgraded existing facilities in–like Brandon hospital, Brandon cancer care, Boundary Trails hospital and Steinbach regional hospital.

      We brought care to Manitobans. If this gov­ern­ment can not or will not continue to do this, at the very least, allow STARS to bring Manitobans to care. Minister, for the sake of rural Manitoba–

The Speaker: The member's time has expired.

MLA Naylor: I'm glad for the op­por­tun­ity to remind the member for Interlake-Gimli of proper use of my colleague's pronouns in the Legislature and everywhere.

      And then–[interjection]

      I also will add that, just to put an exclamation point on it, that the folks on the other side of the House, when they had the op­por­tun­ity to govern this province, cut health care, cut trans­por­tation, cut the trans­por­tation budget over and over again, made it harder and harder for people from Interlake-Gimli or anywhere else in the province to receive health care, to receive other essential services.

      This gov­ern­ment–

The Speaker: Minister's time has expired.

Manitoba Prov­incial Nominee Program
Nominations Received and Planned for 2024

MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Yesterday I asked the minister whether the province used every single prov­incial nomination they received from the federal gov­ern­ment, and the minister completely avoided the question, so I assume it's a no.

      It is shameful. These actions have affected thou­sands of applicants who have been contributing to our economy for years, and employers who need to fill labour shortages.

      My question for the minister is, how many prov­incial nominations did the province receive for MPNP this year, and will the minister confirm that every single nomination provided to the province will be filled in 2024?

Hon. Malaya Marcelino (Minister of Labour and Immigration): Thank you to the member for their question.

      At this point we still haven't received the federal allotment. We were expecting it in February. It's already March and we're still waiting for those numbers.

      We have an approximate idea of what that might be, but no specific hard numbers. And yes, our gov­ern­ment is really focused on making sure that we're going to have enough resources to be able to process as many applications as we can so we can meet that federal allotment and welcome as many new­comers to this province as possible.

      Thank you.

The Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a supplementary question.

Health Care and Applied Sciences
Em­ploy­ment Specific Draws

MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): There are hundreds if not thousands of folks in the health‑care and applied sciences fields that used to be drawn under the em­ploy­ment-specific draws that appear to have been cancelled under this minister.

      We are in a dire state and need health-care staffing resources, and while we have trained and highly capable individuals who could be helping resolve our health-care challenges, the minister has not had an employer-specific draw for these professions since September.

      So my question is, why has the minister chosen not to draw from our valuable, skilled workers in health care?

Hon. Malaya Marcelino (Minister of Labour and Immigration): Thank you to the member for the question.

      To get really into the specifics, our de­part­ment, since I've been elected, has actually done three NOC‑specific draws since October, and we continue to make draws for the skilled workers in Manitoba and skilled workers overseas.

      Most of those folks have–some of them have health-care ex­per­ience and we're very, very lucky and grateful to be able to make sure that all these folks can come to Manitoba.

      Thank you, Hon­our­able Speaker.

The Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final sup­ple­mentary question.

Skilled Immigrant Workers
General Draw Wait Times

MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): The changes under this current government have posed serious challenges for skilled workers. The general draw cut‑off has increased and there are individuals who have been living in and contributing to Manitoba for well over two years with every in­ten­tion to stay, but are not being drawn.

      The time for approval used to be no more than three months, but under this gov­ern­ment, individuals have been waiting for over nine months. This seems to be an NDP pattern.

      Can the minister explain why qualified skilled workers remain in limbo while processing times con­tinue to increase?

Hon. Malaya Marcelino (Minister of Labour and Immigration): Thank you to the members opposite for their attention on this very, very im­por­tant topic that means a lot to the economy here in our province.

      You know, on my second day as minister, I was told that we had no choice but to return the nomina­tions for at least 2,000 people due to the cuts of the previous gov­ern­ment. That's 2,000 nominations that we could've had and all of their families.

      Do you know what that means for an immigrant and their family? It means the world to be able to settle here in a new place. And due to their cuts, we had to say good-bye to 2,000 folks.

      We are working very hard on this side of the House to make sure that our de­part­ment has enough resources to be able to make sure that we can process as many of these applications as possible and welcome as many new­comers to–

The Speaker: Minister's time has expired.

Violent and Repeat Offenders
Five-Point Bail Plan

Mr. Logan Oxenham (Kirkfield Park): Hon­our­able Speaker, Manitobans expect their gov­ern­ments to work within their juris­dic­tion to put com­mu­nity safety first. We know that the previous gov­ern­ment talked a big game during the election on public safety but sat on their hands when it came to action.

      We know that the previous gov­ern­ment did nothing in their power to address bail reform, kicking the can to the federal gov­ern­ment.

      Can the Minister of Justice tell us about our gov­ern­ment's an­nounce­ment to address violent and repeat offenders?

Hon. Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Thank you to the member for Kirkfield Park, a former corrections worker, for that im­por­tant question.

      Our far–five-point bail plan gets tough on crime. It gets tough on the causes of crime. We're partnering with law en­force­ment to go after the most serious repeat offenders.

      We're enhancing bail en­force­ment for those who are already on bail and need help to get back on the right track with addictions and mental health supports.

      We're leading the country in collaborating on data sharing with law en­force­ment juris­dic­tions, and after five years without direction, we're instituting bail policies that prioritize public safety.

      We're going to bring people together. We're going to hear from them at our public safety summit.

      All the previous gov­ern­ment ever did was blame, deflect and divide. We're getting to work, Mr. Speaker.

Federal Inter­national Student Cap
Plan for Prov­incial In­sti­tutions

Mr. Richard Perchotte (Selkirk): Speaking of things from the federal gov­ern­ment, the federal gov­ern­ment has made a massive change to the way post-secondary in­sti­tutions are able to receive inter­national students as they implement a 35 per cent reduction Canada-wide.

      The deadline for the prov­incial plan is March 31st and Manitoba institutions need to know the details that this will have on their operations.

      Will the minister commit to a meeting and a briefing to discuss the im­por­tant issue prior to this federal deadline?

* (14:30)

Hon. Renée Cable (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): I thank you for allowing me to partici­pate remotely. I'm joining you from Treaty 5 territory, where I'm visiting UCN.

      I thank the hon­our­able member for the question. Inter­national students are an im­por­tant part of our campus com­mu­nity and, of course, an im­por­tant part of our economy. Rest assured that I've been on this issue since it was raised, and I look forward to sharing more infor­ma­tion.

Mr. Perchotte: In­sti­tutions through­out Manitoba need to know how many less students they will receive, as well as what will happen if a student receives an offer from multiple potential places of study. This decision by the federal gov­ern­ment will have repercussions through­out our sector and we need to work together to ensure Manitoba in­sti­tutions and students are not being left holding the bag.

      Will the minister commit to a meeting so we can work together?

MLA Cable: I thank the hon­our­able member for the question, again. And I ap­pre­ciate all of the comments made. I agree with nearly every­thing you said.

      I am not certain exactly who the–or, who the mem­ber is asking for a meeting to occur with. I can assure the member that I am in regular con­ver­sa­tion with all of our post-secondary in­sti­tutions. I've had meetings with students' federations. I'm working with closely with our Minister of Immigration.

      And I can assure you that I am working on a plan that is going to result in the best possible results for Manitoba. I look forward to continued con­ver­sa­tions with the member.

The Speaker: The honourable member for Selkirk, on a final sup­ple­mentary question.

Mr. Perchotte: Let me be very clear: I'm asking for a meeting for the people that I represent as a critic. The reso­lu­tion will have a direct impact on the revenue of our Manitoba in­sti­tutions, not to mention the countless–of inter­national students planning on a Manitoba edu­ca­tion.

      Can the minister tell them the plan or are they already too busy?

MLA Cable: I'm not sure if my facial expressions are being conveyed over Zoom. I'm in­cred­ibly confused about this question, but I will assure the member that I am having regular con­ver­sa­tions with all of the stake­holders who are affected by this.

      I am working closely with the federal minister. I'm working closely with our public-sector in­sti­tutions. And the member will be happy to know that despite the multiple cuts that the PCs made to our post-secondary system, that the phenomenal staff in post-secondary have already launched a portal by which in­sti­tutions are applying for their attestation letters.

      So we're way ahead, and I'd invite the member to keep up.

The Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired.

      And I would like to take this–[interjection]

      Order, please. Order, please.

      Thank you.

Introduction of Guests

The Speaker: I would like to take the op­por­tun­ity to intro­duce some guests in the public gallery. I'd like to draw attention to–all hon­our­able members to the public gallery, where we have with us today Candice Narth, Theo Narth and Nash Narth, who are the spouse and sons  of the hon­our­able member for La Vérendrye (Mr. Narth). And on behalf of all members, we wel­come you here today.

Petitions

Hearing Aids

MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I wish to present the following petition to the Legis­lative Assembly.

      The back­ground to this petition is as follows:

      (1) A hearing aid is a battery-powered electronic device designed to improve an individual's ability to perceive sound. Worn in or behind a person's ear, they make some sounds louder, helping people hear better when it's quiet and when it's noisy.

      (2) People who suffer hearing loss, whether due to aging, illness, employment or accident, not only lose the ability to communicate effectively with friends, family or colleagues, they also can experience unemployment, social isolation and struggles with mental health.

      (3) Hearing loss can also impact the safety of an individual with hearing loss, as it affects the ability to hear cars coming, safety alarms, call 911, et cetera.

      (4) A global commission on the state of research for dementia care and prevention released an updated consensus report in July 2020, identifying 12 key risk factors for dementia and cognitive decline. The strongest risk factor that was indicated was hearing loss. It was calculated that up to 8 per cent of the total number of dementia cases could potentially be avoided with management of hearing loss.

      (5) Hearing aids are therefore essential to the mental health and well‑being of Manitobans, especially to those at significant risk of dementia, Alzheimer's, a disorder of the brain affecting cognition in the ever-growing senior population.

      (6) Audiologists are health-care professionals who help patients decide which kind of hearing aid will work best for them, based on the type of hearing age, patient's age and ability to manage small devices, lifestyle and ability to afford.

      (7) The cost of hearing aids can be prohibitive to many Manitobans, depending on their income and circumstances. Hearing aids cost on average $995 to $4,000 per ear, and many professionals say that hearing aids only work at their best for five years.

      (8) Manitoba residents under the age of 18 who require a hearing aid, as prescribed by an 'onorgyologist' or audiologist, will receive either an 80 per cent reimbursement from Manitoba Health on a fixed amount or–for an analog device, up to a maximum of $500 per ear, or 80 per cent of a fixed amount for a digital or analog programmable device, up to a maximum of $1,800. However, this reimbursement is not available to Manitobans who need the device who are over the age of 18, which will result in financial hardship for many young people entering the workforce, students and families. In addition, senior repre­sen­tation, 14.3 of Manitoba's population are not eligible for reimbursement, despite being the group most likely in need of hearing aids.

      (9) Most insurance companies only provide a minimal partial cost of a hearing aid, and many Manitobans, especially retired persons, old-age pensioners and other low-income earners do not have access to health insurance plans.

      (10) The Province of Quebec's hearing devices program covers all costs related to hearing aids and assistive listening devices, including the purchase, repair and replacement.

      (11) Alberta offers subsidies to all seniors 65 and over and low-income adults 18 to 64 once every five years.

      (12) New Brunswick provides coverage for the purchase and maintenance not covered by other agencies or private health insurance plans, as well as assistance for those whom the purchase would cause financial hardship.

      (13) Manitobans over the age of 18 are only eligible for support for hearing aids if they are receiving Employment and Income Assist­ance, and the reimbursement only provides a maximum of $500 an ear.

      We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

      (1) To urge the provincial government to consider hearing loss as a medical treatment under Manitoba Health.

      (2) To urge the provincial government to provide income-based coverage for hearing aids to all who need them, as hearing has been proven to be essential to Manitobans' cognitive, mental and social health and well‑being.

      This petition has been signed by many Manitobans.

The Speaker: No further petitions?

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

The Speaker: The assist­ant Gov­ern­ment House Leader.

Hon. Matt Wiebe (Acting Gov­ern­ment House Leader): Could you please call all stages of Interim Supply.

 

The Speaker: It has been announced by the Government House Leader that we will now call all stages of Interim Supply.

Messages

Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister of Finance): I have a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor, which I would like to table.

The Speaker: To the Speaker of the Legis­lative Assembly, I have been–[interjection]

      Everybody rise, please.

* (14:40)

      To the Speaker of the Legis­lative Assembly, I have been informed of a proposed bill, The Interim Ap­pro­priation Act, 2024, which will provide interim author­ity to make expenditures from the consolidated fund, effective April 1, 2024, pending approval of the ap­pro­priation act 2024.

      The bills also provide for payments to develop or acquire inventory and against certain liabilities accrued and unpaid as of March 31, 2024.

      The bill will also provide a portion of commit­ment author­ity for future years.

      I recom­mend the proposed bill to the Legis­lative Assembly, and this has been signed by Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor.

      So now the House will resolve into Com­mit­tee of Supply to consider the–please be seated. The House will now resolve into Com­mit­tee of Supply to consider the reso­lu­tions respecting the Interim Supply bill.

      Would the Deputy Speaker please take the Chair.

Committee of Supply

Interim Supply

The Chairperson (Tyler Blashko): So will the Commit­tee of Supply please come to order.

      We have before us, for our con­sid­era­tion, four reso­lu­tions respecting the Interim Supply bill.

      The first reso­lu­tion pertaining to part A, Operating Expenditures for Interim Supply, reads as follows:

      RESOLVED–BE IT RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty for the fiscal year ending  March 31, 2025, a sum not exceeding $12,602,005,000, being 75 per cent of the total amount to be voted for the purposes set out in part A, Operational Expenditures of those estimates.

      Does the Minister of Finance have any opening comments? No comments.

      Does the official critic have any opening comments?

Mr. Obby Khan (Fort Whyte): Thank you, Deputy Chair, I believe is how you're referred to in this com­mit­tee process, correct? Deputy Chair, yes.

      So, thank you, it's an honour to be here speaking and this is my first go round at the interim ap­pro­priation act here, so I'm looking forward to a whole­some debate or con­ver­sa­tion with the Minister of Finance, and under­standing a clearer picture of where we're headed for the province of Manitoba.

      I know affordability, costs, inflation, interest rates, gas prices is all top of mind when it comes to Manitobans, along with capital expenses, expendi­tures, loans, debt, hydro, for this province. Also shifting to green energy are all concerns for Manitobans. So I look forward to getting to the reso­lu­tions and the debate and questions with the Minister of Finance.

      Thank you.

The Chairperson: The floor is open for questions.

Mr. Khan: I guess the first question for the Minister of Finance is, you know, we heard earlier today, through the leader of op­posi­tion, that the NDP Cabinet has sig­ni­fi­cant–borrowed ad­di­tional funds over what's normally seen.

      Can the Minister of Finance put an exact number on what number has been borrowed since their time in office?

Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister of Finance): Do I need to stand or stay sitting?

      Happy to speak to that parti­cular point. So, the driver for the borrowing are cash require­­ments that our gov­ern­ment has, and this is due mostly just to the refinancing of maturing debt.

      What I can share gladly with the critic is that the reason for this refinancing is due to funding that was completed in fiscal 2020‑21, which happened during the COVID‑19 pandemic where access to markets was difficult at times, and investor interest was focused in shorter part of the curve. So that led to shorter borrow­ing terms.

      And so that refinancing supports ensuring that we have cash required to continue to operate gov­ern­ment.

Mr. Khan: Sorry, to clarify, so did the Minister of Finance say that $12 billion or the $10 billion that was earlier discussed is for refinancing charges? So is the Minister of Finance saying that that is all for refinancing of existing charges or sums for this province?

MLA Sala: Yes, so, I didn't say $10 billion; that was a number that you provided. But the order-in-council was requested to provide $7 billion in parameter bor­row­ing author­ity, and that amount was required to complete current-year require­ments, again, to meet our cash needs to support the operation of gov­ern­ment.

Mr. Khan: Then, just to clarify, when the Deputy Chair was reading the bill–or the first reading, was it $12 billion for the interim ap­pro­priation that this Minister of Finance is seeking, and that is 75 per cent of the total require­ment?

MLA Sala: The total amount is $12,602,005,000 and that is, to confirm, 75 per cent.

Mr. Khan: I thank the Minister of Finance for that, and I stopped writing at $12 billion because I think every­thing after that's really tough to write down. So thank you.

      So, curious to ask the Minister of Finance (MLA Sala) the last year's interim ap­pro­priation act for 2023 sought a total of $7.9 billion, and now the Minister of Finance is asking for $12 billion. So an increase of $4 billion. Can the Minister of Finance elaborate a little bit on what that $4‑billion increase in one year is for?

MLA Sala: I'm not sure–I don't have it in front of me about whether or not that number that he referenced from last year, what percentage of the year that funded. So I don't know if that's an apples‑to‑apples comparison. So maybe I'd ask the critic to clarify whether that is an apples-to-apples comparison.

Mr. Khan: That's a good question. Apples to apples; I guess, before I can clarify that, does the Minister of Finance have a breakdown of the interim ap­pro­priation act as far as categories for operating expen­ditures, capital expenditures, estimates for loans and guarantees, reporting entities and capital invest­ment? Or is it all lump summed into one total of 12 billion 600 and et cetera for 75 per cent?

MLA Sala: I'm not quite sure what the critic is asking. He seems to be confusing different types of borrowing require­ments. There's part A, which is for operating. He referenced loans, which is part C. And part B is capital for core gov­ern­ment.

      So maybe he can provide clarity on what he's asking.

Mr. Khan: So, to be clear, are we discussing part A of the interim ap­pro­priation act? Because I didn't hear part A at any point.

      So are we talking about part A of the interim ap­pro­priation act, which is operating expenditures, or are we talking about the entire bill of the interim ap­pro­priation act? Because at no point did I hear part A.

MLA Sala: Yes, I can confirm that the $12,602,000,000 is spe­cific­ally for part A.

Mr. Khan: That clarifies a lot and he can ignore the question, the two questions before that then. I was not aware that was for part A of that.

* (14:50)

      So, based on the–now that I know part A is for the $12 billion, et cetera, can the minister explain a little bit what will he be using this ap­pro­priation for, other then the refinancing charges that he's mentioned?

MLA Sala: The critic seems to continue to be con­fused. I don't mean that to be derisive, but he's referencing an earlier question, which had to do with refinancing, which was raised earlier in the House during question period.

      That has nothing to do with what we're discussing here today.

Mr. Khan: Okay, so we'll refocus this on operating expenditures for part A.

      Last year the previous Finance minister brought forward an interim ap­pro­priation of 35 per cent, for a total ap­pro­priation of $6 billion for operating expenditures.

      Can the minister tell us how much more–which he has–asked for this year, and why that total is higher and what percentage of total ap­pro­priation are being sought for this total coming year for operating funding?

MLA Sala: Well, as the critic just identified, they asked for a much smaller percentage of the total year last time, so that would make up a sig­ni­fi­cant portion of the difference between the two numbers.

Mr. Khan: And then the second part of that question the minister, I guess, didn't address there, was what per cent of the total ap­pro­priation are being sought for the entire coming year?

MLA Sala: The entire year? Maybe I could just ask the critic to clarify.

      So we've–part A, operating, we're again request­ing $12,602,000,000, which is 90 per cent. So, I'll let him figure out the 10 per cent piece.

Mr. Khan: So, the minister and his entire gov­ern­ment's been out cancelling surgeries over the past few months.

      Can he tell us whether he'll–they'll continue to fund those surgeries again with ap­pro­priation mea­sures to ensure wait times continue to come down, as they were under the previous gov­ern­ment?

MLA Sala: Well, Manitobans sent us here with a top priority, which is to fix the health-care system that the last gov­ern­ment left in ruins.

      We have a lot of work to do, but I know that our Minister of Health and our Premier (Mr. Kinew) are doing in­cred­ible work in leading that–those fixes to our health-care system and making it once again some­­­thing we can all be proud of.

      We have a lot of work to do, and, again, continue to be proud of the work that is being led by my colleague, the Minister of Health.

Mr. Khan: Can the–sorry, I was just reading a note here. How much of this appropriated amount is coming for this fiscal year, will be going towards debt servicing and interest payments on the Province's debt and borrowing?

MLA Sala: Well, I can't speak to that specific number here. But I can say that we're bringing forward a plan here that will work to rebuild our health-care system, make life more affordable, invest in our schools and ultimately help to do the im­por­tant work that Manitobans sent us here to do as the new gov­ern­ment.

The Chairperson: The hon­our­able member for Fort Whyte (Mr. Khan)?

Mr. Khan: Part A.

The Chairperson: Is the com­mit­tee ready for the question?

      Shall the reso­lu­tion pass? [Agreed]

      The second reso­lu­tion pertaining to part B, Capital Invest­ments for Interim Supply, reads as follows:

      BE IT RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025, a sum not exceeding $902,575,000–let me repeat that number–a sum not exceeding $902,570,000, being 90 per cent of the total amount to be voted for the purposes set out in part B, Capital Invest­ments, of those Estimates.

      Does the Minister of Finance (MLA Sala) have an opening statement? No? Okay.

      Does the official opposition critic have any opening comment? No? Okay.

      The floor is open for questions.

Mr. Khan: Just to also clarify, do I have five minutes for a questions here or 45 seconds? Five minutes, okay. Thank you.

      And now that I'm clear that we're on part B, thank you for the Minister of Finance for running through that. I did say it was the first time doing this here.

      So in part B, when it comes to capital expendi­tures, can the minister tell us how much more he is appropriating in interim capital spending this year than over last year's budget?

MLA Sala: Well, what I can share is that we're requesting interim ap­pro­priation of $902,570,000 to support capital invest­ments to help move our province ahead.

Mr. Khan: Okay, so the Minister of Finance has no idea how much more money he's asking for this year than last year's ap­pro­priation act.

MLA Sala: I didn't catch the question there, so I'd maybe pass it back to the critic to clarify what it was that he was asking.

Mr. Khan: So I did the math for the minister, since the minister didn't have the math there ahead of him.

      I simply asked how much more money they're asking for this year in the ap­pro­priation act based on percentages so we are comparing apples to apples on this one. It is an ad­di­tional $76 million approximately.

      Can the minister tell us what that extra $76 million will be used for in capital expenditures?

MLA Sala: Well, we won't be making any an­nounce­ments right here. I can share that these dollars are going to go towards making im­por­tant invest­ments that Manitobans have been waiting for, for a very long time, which they didn't see under the previous gov­ern­ment.

      We saw seven years of them falling behind. We're here to, again, do that im­por­tant work and make invest­ments that Manitobans need in health care, edu­ca­tion and other im­por­tant areas of gov­ern­ment.

Mr. Khan: So I thank the minister for the non‑answer there.

      So $76 million is a lot of money for Manitobans and that's how much more you're asking for in this ap­pro­priation act. And yet their minister can't give us an answer on exactly what the $76 million–or even an idea of what it's going to go towards other than vague, alluded answers. So I'll be more specific.

      So, the minister and his Cabinet have been busy pausing, cancelling new schools, constructions, new daycares that were shovel ready under the previous gov­ern­ment and would have led to better child­hood edu­ca­tion, convenience for parents and many other benefits along with building schools that are much needed in this province.

      Will the minister commit today that these projects will move forward in the com­mu­nities that have been asking for them and that some of these projects were previously approved for them with this increase in capital spending being appropriated in this bill today?

MLA Sala: Yes, one of the things that's been keeping me busy is cleaning up the gigantic fiscal mess that was left to us by the previous gov­ern­ment.

      I recog­nize that the critic and others on the team who are talking right now and not listening don't like to contend with the reality that they left us a $1.6‑billion deficit.

      It's hard for them. I know they like to think of them­­selves as good fiscal managers. Manitobans know otherwise. That was a huge hole that we walked in to discover when we came into gov­ern­ment.

      You know, and fortunately Manitobans have a respon­si­ble gov­ern­ment, a fiscally focused gov­ern­ment now that can do the im­por­tant work of making invest­ments in health care and improving affordability while we balance our fiscal require­ments in this province.

      That's some­thing we haven't had for a long time. Manitobans can now have that con­fi­dence that they've got good fiscal managers at the helm of the prov­incial gov­ern­ment.

Mr. Khan: You know, actually the minister wants to go back in talking points and he wants to talk about the past.

      The fact of the matter is that this minister is in gov­ern­ment now. They're in gov­ern­ment. They said they were a gov­ern­ment‑in‑waiting for seven years. Now they have the op­por­tun­ity of being gov­ern­ment.

      And we heard at com­mit­tee over and over again from various com­mit­tees that previous gov­ern­ment, previous gov­ern­ment and we're cleaning up the–and they're saying it again today.

      They have no answers. They have no plan. It's evident.

      And Manitobans have a right to know where $76 million of extra asks in capital expenditure is going to be spent. I think that's a fair and reasonable question, and the minister wants to talk about cleaning up a mess.

      And we'll talk about cleaning up a mess if the minister wants to go down that road. You know, I would say–and I asked this question to the minister earlier, and he didn't answer it, and I referenced my son and he could have answered it–that what was better? An $846‑million deficit or a $270-million surplus? Because when the last report that came out wherein our gov­ern­ment was $270-million surplus.

* (15:00)

      They're still in gov­ern­ment for half the year. They have to remember that. We left them with a quarter-of-a-billion-dollar surplus and they left the previous government, when they left government, $846 million in deficit.

      And we'll do some simple math on that at a later question, in understanding how that breaks into their $10 billion of asks, that they order-in-council, that they tried to hide from the Manitoba public. And that was brought forward today; $10 billion in orders-in-council is a lot of money and Manitobans will have–need to have an answer for that. And the NDP, I believe, owe it to them on that.

      So, again, I'll get into–and we can go back and forth and take shots all day if we want, to the Minister of Finance (MLA Sala) and previous gov­ern­ment, and what was done and what wasn't done.

      We're here to talk about this interim appropriation act, So, if we want to talk about that, in part B, Capital Expenditures, for an increase of $76 million, since the minister can't answer if any new schools will be pro­ceeding, or if the previous schools that were com­mitted to will be proceeding forward, maybe the Minister of Finance can talk about the PCHs and the senior homes that were committed to, that were passed through Treasury Board, that were budgeted for to proceed. And this minister and his government then cancelled that project.

      So, in the capital expenditures for this year's up­coming interim appropriation act, can the minister commit today that some of those PCH projects, or all of those PCH projects will be going forward?

MLA Sala: Yes, the critic doesn't seem to really recog­­nize why we're here today. The purpose of this interim appropriation is to ensure that government has the funding it requires until a budget is passed.

      The budget, which we'll be bringing forward on April 2, which we're really excited about bringing to Manitobans, will outline our plan. At that point, the critic will have an opportunity to cast his eyes on what it is that we're proposing for the province.

      Today is about ensuring that government has the funds required to continue operating until that time, as such time as that budget is passed.

      Until–I also want to comment: him, and I've seen other colleagues today, continue to identify this refinancing that occurred in January as some kind of a gotcha moment. The reality is it's all refinancing dollars that were borrowed initially by his government, or the previous government.

      So, it really makes zero sense at all for him to be  raising that as some kind of a sign of a fiscal mismanage­ment, when these are refinancing activities tied directly to borrowing that was engaged in by his government.

      So, again, I am confused why he is raising that. I don't really–there isn't clarity on that. Remind the critic for Finance, again, why those dollars are being refinanced: it's to meet cash requirements and it's refinancing borrowing that occurred under his pre­vious government.

Mr. Khan: I apologize. The throat's a little dry today; day 3 of fasting, 25 more to go or something. So, apologize for the pause.

      And with all due respect, I do understand what the process is for today with the Minister of Finance (MLA Sala). I was–at earlier stages thought that we were lumping all of the part A-B-Cs together. That was clarified. This is about financing until the budget is passed.

      But a lot of these costs, expenses and projects are where this appropriation act is coming from. They need money to continue projects and pay bills and loans and guarantees and capital expenditures. This is what we're talking about.

      So, it's important that we have this fulsome dis­cussion and Manitobans can understand what the money they're asking for, where it's going to go–sorry–and so I do respectfully understand.

      If the minister doesn't want to answer the ques­tions, that's different. To cast, you know, doubt on this side is different. And we'll get back to the $10 billion once we're a little bit later. But I want–I do want to focus on capital expenditures.

      So, the minister is on the record commenting that the new schools aren't going forward. He completely avoided the question on PCHs and senior homes. He was unaware of how much money they're asking for.

      Can the minister outline any other capital projects that would be funded with this capital appropriation from various departments?

MLA Sala: Yes, again, I'm just a little confused about what it is that the critic is pursuing here. Today we're here to request these interim appropriations to allow for the continued operation of government until such time as our budget is passed.

      I'm excited for the critic to see all the great news we're going to be bringing forward on April 2 with our budget. I'm sure he'll be delighted to see all the great news we're bringing forward.

The Chairperson: The hon­our­able member for Fort Whyte (Mr. Khan).

      Is the com­mit­tee ready for the question?

Some Honourable Members: Question.

The Chairperson: Shall the reso­lu­tion pass? [Agreed]

      The third reso­lu­tion pertaining to part C, Loans and Guarantees, from Interim Supply reads as follows:

      Be it RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025, a sum not exceeding $445,315,000, being 90 per cent of the total amount to be voted for the purposes set out in part C, Loans and Guarantees, of those Estimates.

      Does the Minister of Finance have any opening comments? No.

      Does the official op­posi­tion critic have any open­ing comments?

Mr. Khan: I'll start off with the same question I started for the other two parts. Does the Minister of Finance know how much more money they are asking for in this year's–

The Chairperson: Sorry, member, I was wondering if you had opening comments.

Mr. Khan: Opening comments, no. I said those earlier.

The Chairperson: No? Okay.

      The floor is open to questions.

Mr. Khan: I'll start off with the same question I started off the other two parts with, is does this Minister of Finance know how much more money they are asking for in this year's interim ap­pro­priation act?

MLA Sala: It's not apples to apples, again, for–compared to last year, there was a request for 75 per cent of part C, this year it's 90 per cent.

Mr. Khan: We will–I will get that number since the minister doesn't have it. We will crunch that on our side and provide apples to apples so the minister can know that.

      Is there a reason why the interim ap­pro­priation act was changed percentages this year in all of the fol­lowing parts?

MLA Sala: Yes, this part C provides expenditure author­­ity for loans and loan guarantee programs, and it will support really im­por­tant work, like the work of Manitoba Student Aid and, for example, the Manitoba Agri­cul­tural Services Cor­por­ation. Some really im­por­tant work, and we're proud to support that.

Mr. Khan: Does the minister have a number of how much of these loans and guarantees are for operating funds for various gov­ern­ment entities?

MLA Sala: This–part C provides author­ity for loans and loan guarantee programs. So if the critic wants to identify which specific loan he's referencing that would later support operating funding, I would be happy to enter­tain that.

Mr. Khan: No, thank you, Deputy Chair. I would have assumed that the Minister of Finance (MLA Sala) would know if there were any loan guarantees for any other gov­ern­ment entities. So it seems like the minister doesn't have those handy. I can provide those. I will have those ready for him at com­mit­tee, and we'll go forward to that when we break out at the next stage of the budget, I guess.

      Are some of the loans and loans guarantees in part C for the capital projects?

MLA Sala: Capital financing happens for core gov­ern­ment through part B and for other reporting entities through part D.

Mr. Khan: Keep it simple now.

The Chairperson: Is the com­mit­tee ready for the question?

Some Honourable Members: Question.

The Chairperson: Shall the reso­lu­tion pass? [Agreed]

      The fourth reso­lu­tion pertaining to part D, Capital Invest­ments by Other Reporting Entities, for Interim Supply reads as follows:

      Be it RESOLVED that there by granted to His Majesty for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025, a sum not exceeding $822,516,000, being 90 per cent of the total amount to be voted for the purposes set out in part D, Capital Invest­ments by Other Reporting Entities, of those Estimates.

* (15:10)

      Does the Minister of Finance have any opening comments?

      Does the critic have any opening comments?

      The floor is open for questions.

Mr. Khan: Sorry, I'll ask the Minister of Finance to repeat that number again. I just missed–I cut out for a second there. The number for the loans for reporting entities in capital invest­ments, I guess.

MLA Sala: To clarify, is he asking about the proposed interim ap­pro­priation for part C?

An Honourable Member: D, we're on D.

MLA Sala: Part D, $822,516,000 and that's being 90 per cent of the total.

Mr. Khan: Thank the minister for that. Sorry, it cut out for some reason. I couldn't hear you the first time. The last numbers got blurred: $822 million for 90 per cent. Last year's interim ap­pro­priation was 685 for 75 per cent.

      I'll ask the minister again, and I assume it's the same answer: Does the minister have an answer to how much more or less they may be asking for if we're comparing apples to apples?

MLA Sala: I keep getting these questions which the critic seems to already know the answer to. Again, we're requesting $822,516,000 at 90 per cent. Last year was six eighty-five, four thirty at 75 per cent, not a sig­ni­fi­cant gap there.

Mr. Khan: Can the minister tell us the percentage of total planned spending and the interim dollar amount that he's authorizing in the interim ap­pro­priation for loans, for capital invest­ments to reporting entities?

MLA Sala: Well, loans and loan guarantees are covered in part C. That's as has been discussed: $445,315,000 being requested as part of this interim ap­pro­priation.

Mr. Khan: Can the minister tell us about capital plans, that's money that's going to be used for report­ing entities, if he's aware of them?

MLA Sala: Yes. Again, today we're here to ask for interim ap­pro­priation, which will allow us to meet the financial needs of gov­ern­ment until such time as a budget is passed.

      In terms of the questions that the critic is asking, those are the kinds of answers–or that's the type of infor­ma­tion he can expect to get a whole lot of, come April 2, when we release our budget.

Mr. Khan: I know the minister wants to go back to this point over and over again, and he thinks it's going to make a real good talking point for him, the–but what he's asking Manitobans for is essentially a blank cheque. He's asking Manitobans for a blank cheque to cover this interim ap­pro­priation act, to cover the finances until the budget is passed–if the budget is passed, depending on how that debate or discussion goes.

      We know last year the NDP were adamant that they didn't want to pass the budget and they were against the tax cuts that we proposed. And what hap­pens six months later? They're hailing it as a great victory that they supported the tax cuts, and this is great for Manitobans. It was great for Manitobans.

      I understand what this is about. So, with all due respect, I think Manitobans have a right to ask where this interim ap­pro­priation of this money is going to go, as his gov­ern­ment is asking for $12 billion. That's no small amount of money, and the minister wants to go to his talking points, and we will discuss this at–more at com­mit­tee once we get through this phase of the legis­lative process.

      I don't think these questions are outlandish. Manitobans have a right to know where their money is going.

      So, the question again is, you know, does the minister–can he mention or talk about the money that is being asked for reporting entities? Does he know if any of these reporting entities are building capital projects?

MLA Sala: Again, there's no games being played here. What's happening is that the critic doesn't seem to understand why we're here, and he's suggesting that we're looking for a blank cheque. But that shows he doesn't understand the purpose of today's exercise.

      We cannot fund new pro­gram­ming with these dollars. These programs–this funding only allows us to fund ongoing programs, services that are already in play. So this is to support existing expenditures, exist­ing programs, services. This is not about funding net new program services an­nounce­ments.

      So, again, I'm not sure why the critic continues to ask that question. He should understand that that's not infor­ma­tion we can provide to him today.

Mr. Khan: Okay, we can ask a simple question. Hopefully, the minister could answer this one here. What rate of interest is the Finance De­part­ment charging on these loans to reporting entities?

MLA Sala: There would be a lot of loans offered and delivered through that part C funding. So, I mean, again, I invite the critic, if he's got a specific type of loan that he wants to inquire about, to raise that here on the floor. But that question would require, I think, digging into a number of different loan provisions. So if you'll invite him to bring a more specific question, if he's interested.

Mr. Khan: Thank you, Deputy Speaker, and the minister for that.

      And we will be bringing that question forward, so to, again, we do understand the process; I do under­stand the process on this side. This was a simple question to the minister, if he could give us a rate on what that was being charged at, he wants to defer down the road. We do understand the importance of passing an interim ap­pro­priation act so that the gov­ern­ment and all its entities don't come to a halt, and this is an im­por­tant part of the process so Manitoba can continue moving forward.

      So with that, if the minister doesn't want to answer the question, we'll move on to the next part.

The Chairperson: Does the minister have a response?

MLA Sala: No.

The Chairperson: Sorry, is the com­mit­tee ready for the question?

Some Honourable Members: Question.

The Chairperson: Shall the reso­lu­tion pass? [Agreed]

      That concludes the busi­ness before the com­mit­tee.

      Com­mit­tee rise.

      Call in the Speaker.

IN SESSION

The Speaker: Please be seated.

Committee Report

Mr. Tyler Blashko (Chairperson): Hon­our­able Speaker, the Com­mit­tee of Supply has considered and adopted four reso­lu­tions respecting Interim Supply.

      I move, seconded by the hon­our­able member for Brandon East (Mr. Simard), that the report of the commit­tee be received.

Motion agreed to.

Interim Supply Motion

Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister of Finance): I move, seconded by the Minister of Housing, Addictions and Homelessness (Ms. Smith), that there be granted to His Majesty, on account of Certain Expenditures of the Public Service, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025, out of the Consolidated Fund, for the purposes set out in the 2024 Estimates, including Supple­mentary Estimates, sums not exceeding $12,602,005,000, being 75 per cent of the total amount voted, as set out in part A–that's Operating Expenditures of those Estimates; $902,570,000, being 90 per cent of the total amount voted, as set out in part B of those Estimates; $445,315,000, being 90 per cent of the total amount voted, as set out in part C of those Estimates; and $822,516,000, being 90 per cent of the total amount voted, as set out in part D of those Estimates.

* (15:20)

The Speaker: I'd just like to point out there was a couple of errors in the motion as read out.

      Is there leave to have the motion printed in Hansard as written?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

An Honourable Member: Read it again.

An Honourable Member: No.

The Speaker: Agreed–I hear a no, so the minister will have to read the motion over again.

MLA Sala: I move, seconded, again, by the Minister respon­si­ble for Housing, Addictions and Homelessness, that there be granted to His Majesty on account of Certain Expenditures of the Public Service, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025, out of the Consolidated Fund, the sums of $12,602,005,000, being 75 per cent of the total amount to be voted as set out in part A, Operating Expenditures, of those Estimates; $902,570,000, being 90 per cent of the total amount to be voted as set out in part B, Capital Invest­ment, of those Estimates; $445,315,000, being 90 per cent of the total amount to be voted as set out in part C, Loans and Guarantees, of those Estimates; $822,516,000, being 90 per cent of the total amount to be voted as set out in part D, Capital Invest­ments by Other Reporting Entities, of those Estimates.

The Speaker: It has been moved by the hon­our­able Minister of Finance (MLA Sala), seconded by the hon­our­able Minister of Homelessness, Housing and Addictions (Ms. Smith), that there be granted to His Majesty on account of Certain Expenditures of the Public Service for the fiscal year ending March 31–

An Honourable Member: Dispense.

The Speaker: Dispense? Dispense? [Agreed]

      Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed]

Introduction of Bills

Bill 25–The Interim Appropriation Act, 2024

Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister of Finance): I move, seconded by the Minister of Edu­ca­tion, that Bill 25, The Interim Ap­pro­priation Act, 2024; Loi de 2024 portant affectation anticipée de crédits, be now read a first time and ordered for second reading imme­diately.

Motion agreed to.

Second Readings

Bill 25–The Interim Appropriation Act, 2024

Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister of Finance): I move, seconded by the Minister of Edu­ca­tion, that Bill 25, The Interim Ap­pro­priation Act, 2024; Loi de 2024 portant affectation anticipée de crédits, be now read a second time and be referred to the Com­mit­tee of the Whole.

Motion presented.

MLA Sala: I just want to make some technical comments here and, hopefully, this will benefit folks here in the Legislature who haven't been through this process before. It's, of course, my first time as well, going through this in this role, which I'm very proud to be doing.

      In our parlia­mentary system, the '23‑24 ap­pro­priations lapse after March 31, 2024. This bill pro­vides for interim ap­pro­priations that allow for gov­ern­ment to continue operating until our upcoming budget, Budget 2024, is passed.

      Simply put, this will allow gov­ern­ment to keep the lights on, keep im­por­tant programs running and payments flowing. And this is really a bridge funding to our first budget, which we will be delivering, as folks know, on April 2 of this year.

      As the interim ap­pro­priation is being intro­duced before the 2024 budget, it is based on the '23‑24 main Estimates of expenditure. The amount of interim operating expenditure author­ity requested, as we've announced here, is $12,602,005,000. This author­ity represents 75 per cent of the sums included in part A of the '23‑24 Estimates of expenditure.

      The amount of interim capital invest­ment spend­ing author­ity in part B requested is the $902,570,000. And this author­ity represents 90 per cent of the sums included of part B of the '23‑24 Estimates.

      On the part C side, the amount of loans and loan  guarantee expenditure author­ity requested is $445,315,000. This author­ity, again, represents 90 per cent of the sums included in part C.

      And the amount of expenditure author­ity for capital invest­ments provided as loans to other report­ing organi­zations is $822,516,000. And this author­ity represents 90 per cent of the sums included in part D of the '23‑24 Estimates.

      The amount of expenditures that are authorized for developing or acquiring inventory for subsequent years is $25 million.

      The amount of payments for long‑term liabilities is $259 million.

      The amount of future commit­ment author­ity in­cluded in this Interim Supply bill is $1,500,000,000 and this author­ity provides for the commit­ment of expenditures to ensure the completion of projects or fulfilling contracts initiated but not completed during the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025.

      When Bill 25 reached the com­mit­tee stage, I will provide members with a section‑by‑section explana­tion of the bill. With those technical comments out of the way, let me make a few overarching comments as we proceed here in second reading.

      You know, it's been, of course, a long seven years for Manitobans under the previous gov­ern­ment. Proud to say that this Interim Supply is a bridge to our first budget, which we're very excited about bringing to the people of Manitoba.

* (15:30)

      We are committed to delivering on our gov­ern­ment's commit­ments. We're going to do that in a good way that ensures we balance our fiscal needs with those commit­ments we've made. We're going to do that hard work of rebuilding health care after seven years.

      We will lower costs for families. After years of rising costs, we will invest in our com­mu­nities. We're very proud of our record so far, but we know there's a lot more work to do. So far, we've lowered personal income taxes and paused the prov­incial gas tax, saving Manitobans 14 cents a litre every single time they fill up. And we are, of course, listening to front‑line staff in health care in imple­men­ting the solutions we've heard from them. We're also taking im­por­tant action to make com­mu­nities safer.

      So as I said, Hon­our­able Speaker, this Interim Supply is a bridge to our first budget, and the approach to building this budget is, of course, different than the previous gov­ern­ment. As our Premier (Mr. Kinew) has said many times, we are a listening gov­ern­ment and our priorities will reflect the priorities of Manitobans.

      Been very fortunate over the last couple of months to do extensive en­gage­ments with Manitobans in prebudget con­sul­ta­tions. We've been honoured to hear from folks of all walks of life in every corner of the province. And it's clear that they want a gov­ern­ment that will build on our strengths and will seize on those op­por­tun­ities before us to make life better while we overcome the challenges we face. This Interim Supply bill is one small step in that direction. It's a path that will be walked with a benefit, knowing that we've truly engaged with Manitobans to understand what their priorities are.

      On that note, Mr. Speaker, I'm please to conclude my comments.

Questions

The Speaker: A question period of up to 15 minutes will be held. Questions may be addressed to the minister by any member in the following sequence: first question by the official opposition critic or designate; subsequent questions asked by critics or designates from recognized opposition parties; sub­se­quent questions asked by each independent member; remaining questions asked by any opposition members. No question or answer shall exceed 45 seconds.

      Are there any questions?

Mr. Obby Khan (Fort Whyte): Thank you very much, Hon­our­able Speaker. And I'll ask the question here, ask the question since the minister opened it up here.

      Minister mentioned that he's very happy and proud of the tax credits and the savings he's giving to Manitobans. So I just want to ask the minister, when the budget '23‑24 was tabled, did the minister vote in favour or against those tax cuts?

Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister of Finance): You know, we're very proud to be bringing those savings to Manitobans and fulfilling our commit­ments that we made in the last prov­incial election.

      The member opposite might not know it, but those tax cuts came into full effect in January of this year, full three months after we were in gov­ern­ment. We had the op­por­tun­ity to either reject that or go forward. We made the decision to fulfill our commit­ment to Manitobans, to save them money. It's exactly what we–we're doing.

      We know that when the previous gov­ern­ment made changes like this, they had no plan, no plan of any kind. We know that they had a real issue when it comes to fiscal respon­si­bility. And the big concern is we know that in their hands, those types of changes would've inevitably led to more cuts to im­por­tant services. We know what they did for seven years to health care, edu­ca­tion–

The Speaker: The minister's time has expired.

Mr. Doyle Piwniuk (Turtle Mountain): The minister said that his prebudget con­sul­ta­tion–that things look good for Manitoba in the coming year and that we are coming out of a brief economic tough in the fall, but that we are still seeing growth coming forward.

      Can the minister tell us what our G‑P–GDP growth was last year and what is it that his de­part­ment and experts are projecting to be coming in the coming year?

MLA Sala: I was proud to do prebudget con­sul­ta­tions and to speak with Manitobans across the province. I can share with the member opposite that we know that this year, we're expecting about a 0.5 per cent GDP growth. Things are looking better in 2025, and no question that that's going to be aided and abetted by our new NDP gov­ern­ment.

Mr. Josh Guenter (Borderland): As the minister is putting forward these plans for spending for the coming fiscal year, can he also provide us with a pro­jection of red–reve­nues for the coming year as well?

MLA Sala: Yes, you know, I am happy to speak to this question. One thing we know is that during the last gov­ern­ment's time, one thing they did is they drastically overstated the esti­mated reve­nues for this fiscal year. And that's one of the reasons why we're in this terrible budget situation or the–sorry, this terrible deficit situation that they've left us in because they didn't know how to budget. They hid infor­ma­tion from Manitobans. They failed to budget adequately and to plan and, as a result, they left Manitobans with a $1.6‑billion deficit parting gift.

Mr. Khan: Can the minister please explain why him and his gov­ern­ment took out a $700‑million special warrant this year in January?

MLA Sala: Yes, I explained this earlier. I don't think the critic was listening very carefully.

      The gov­ern­ment has cash require­ments. This is mostly tied to refinancing on borrowing that was done under the last gov­ern­ment during COVID. There was a period of time where we were borrowing money for shorter periods–two‑year periods. Those dollars–or, that financing is coming up again for refinancing.

      Again, this is tied to meeting our cash require­ments and refinancing tied to borrowing that was actually done by the last gov­ern­ment.

Mr. Piwniuk: I know, in the past, the–when the last NDP gov­ern­ment, what they did to Manitoba Hydro. They doubled the debt within a number of years, especially during the Selinger gov­ern­ment.

      And I was wondering if the–this minister has allowed the Manitoba Hydro to have the flexibility to make the best busi­ness decisions on behalf of Manitobans and its true shareholders, the Manitoba–shareholders for Manitoba Hydro.

      So I know the member for Keewatinook (Mr. Bushie) is heckling over here, so–[interjection]–yes, come on.

      So, anyways, we just want to know what's your, when it comes to Manitoba Hydro, what are you going to do with the flexibility, making sure that they make sound decisions and not firing the CEO?

MLA Sala: Here's what we know when it comes to inter­ference in Hydro from the last gov­ern­ment, Honour­able Speaker: they prevented First Nations com­­mu­nities with a directive for engaging directly with Manitoba Hydro. That's absolutely shameful, and we were very proud to remove that directive shortly after we came into gov­ern­ment.

      They inter­fered so heavily in Manitoba Hydro that the entire board of Manitoba Hydro walked off the job because of their leadership and the work that they were doing in interfering in Hydro's work. Not to mention their support for priva­tiza­tion, every creative approach to raising hydro rates on Manitobans.

      That's their record. We're going to do things very differently.

Mr. Guenter: Hon­our­able Speaker, the NDP gov­ern­ment is authorizing close to $10 billion in new spending–borrowing.

      I'm wondering if the minister can speak to what the debt servicing costs will be on that sum.

MLA Sala: Yes, again, the members opposite con­tinue to go back to this question about our refinancing of debt that was incurred under their gov­ern­ment. I don't know how many times we need to repeat that in the House, but I'll do it again for their benefit. This is refinancing–borrowing that occurred under their watch approximately two years ago.

      So we need to ensure that we refinance those dollars so Manitoba can continue to have the cash it needs to deliver im­por­tant services and programs to Manitobans.

Mr. Khan: I mean, the minister wants to throw around all these accusations of the past gov­ern­ment, PC gov­ern­ment, their gov­ern­ment. I mean, the simple facts are that in 2017 the previous gov­ern­ment took $47 million in a special warrant; 2018 was $82 million.

      Fast forward to under the NDP–$700 million in a special warrant. I don't believe the minister has given a real answer as to why that money is being appro­priated. He talks about refinancing charges, paying off previous debt.

      Manitobans deserve an answer: Why is this gov­ern­ment borrowing $700 million?

MLA Sala: Yes, so, not sinking in. We're going to continue this, and I'll provide–happy to provide a little more detail here.

      Much of the refinancing in coming years is due to funding that was completed in fiscal 2020‑21 due to the COVID-19 pandemic, where access to markets was difficult at times. Investor interest was focused in the shorter part of the curve, which is why we saw two‑year periods.

      Again, this was tied to borrowing that occurred under their gov­ern­ment.

Mr. Khan: This minister and gov­ern­ment want to talk about a fake deficit of $1.6 million. Well, let's run some simple math on this.

      When this NDP gov­ern­ment left they had an $846‑million audited deficit. That 'lanks' to $2 billion of borrowing from the PC gov­ern­ment. Simple math: if it is a $1.6 fake deficit, that should equal $4 billion, not $12 billion that this gov­ern­ment has asked for.

* (15:40)

      Can the minister go on the record and say why they are borrowing so much money to cover previous debts?

MLA Sala: Critic seems very confused about a lot today, but I'll just–to answer his question, or he's asking about this $1.6‑billion deficit they left for us.

      Look, we had MNP, which is a respected accounting firm, do an independent assessment of the previous gov­ern­ment's decision making. And that report, which was released publicly, spoke in no uncertain terms that this previous gov­ern­ment made a series of terrible budgetary decisions that left us in a fiscal mess.

      They made $200‑million an­nounce­ments that weren't in budget, and then they failed to reflect those in their budgetary updates to Manitobans. Why? Because they were only interested in one thing, and that was getting re‑elected.

Mr. Piwniuk: You know, the–when they talk about fiscal mess, Hon­our­able Speaker, I know back in their days of the old dark days of an NDP, they actually had–not only did they double the debt for the Manitoba–the province of Manitoba, but they also doubled the debt for Manitoba Hydro, put it into a really bad situation. They even depleted the rainy day fund.

      Now I just want to know, and I know we've replenished that rainy day fund, whether they have plans for the rainy day fund. Are they going to put more money into that plan?

MLA Sala: One of the most egregious things that we saw from the previous gov­ern­ment was the fact that they hid the state of Hydro's finances from Manitobans.

      And we know that, in their Q1 report at the end of July, when they knew the direction of Hydro's net in­come for that year, they purposefully left out that infor­ma­tion from that report. Again, why? Because they had one goal and one goal only, and that was their craven goal to get re‑elected, all while being dishonest with Manitobans about the true state of our fiscal affairs.

Mr. Guenter: Hon­our­able Speaker, can the Minister of Finance (MLA Sala) commit today that his gov­ern­ment will balance the budget in this term?

MLA Sala: I'm very proud to say here in this House, to say some­thing we've said many times, the Premier (Mr. Kinew) has committed to: we will balance the budget at the end of our first term.

Mr. Khan: This minister, Hon­our­able Speaker, wants to talk about money that wasn't there, and they tabled a docu­ment. Embarrassing for the Premier (Mr. Kinew), he tabled a docu­ment that said ISA. That's an internal service in gov­ern­ment, which means money is accounted for in the budget, it's just transferred from within de­part­ment, de­part­ment. So if the minister is confused, maybe he should go back and look at what ISA is.

      When he refers to the MNP docu­ment, in that report itself it says that economic growth has been better than expected for 2023, 2024, and it's meant to go higher in 2025.

      So why is this minister putting false news–record that it's a $1.6‑billion deficit when his own MNP report says the province is performing better?

MLA Sala: The critic for Finance clearly didn't read the executive summary in the MNP report. That execu­tive summary stated in no uncertain terms that the pre­vious gov­ern­ment made irresponsible budgetary deci­sions. Multiple irresponsible budgetary decisions.

      They hid Hydro's net income direction from Manitobans in a fiscal update that was falsified. They made $200-million invest­ments without disclosing that to Manitobans or having made any type of budget for those numbers.

      That's their record. And as a result of that, we're climbing out of a $1.6-billion hole. That's shameful that that's the legacy that they've left for Manitobans. We're going to do better. We're going to deliver on Manitobans' priorities while we balance the budget.

Mr. Piwniuk: I know the member is saying that, right now, when it comes to balance the budget in the last term for their whole term here. I just want to ask the question. I know of the–one of the biggest things that we grow with the economy when we were in the–in gov­ern­ment, and I know we focused really on econo­mic dev­elop­ment. We had a com­mit­tee that was actually bringing a lot of invest­ment into this province.

      And now when they–when the NDP now had–have now all these big promises, are they going to be able to fulfill those promises, especially now when they've actually siphoned off the revenue that could be coming here because of all those projects that we were working on?

MLA Sala: One of the things that was so shocking to me as a member of the op­posi­tion for years was learning and speaking with people in the busi­ness com­mu­nity that frequently commented that the gov­ern­ment had absolutely no economic dev­elop­ment plan of any kind. For years they had zero vision or plan for our prov­incial economy.

      Manitobans now have a gov­ern­ment that knows about economic dev­elop­ment. We've got an in­cred­ible minister respon­si­ble for Economic Dev­elop­ment, right?

      We're going to grow our economy, thanks to his good work and the work of our team.

Mr. Guenter: Hon­our­able Speaker, I find it interest­ing to hear this theme emerging from the NDP gov­ern­ment that our Progressive Conservative gov­ern­ment ran a 1.6–apparent $1.6-billion deficit, at the same time–at the same time–that we cut all these services. I don't understand; if we cut services, where does this $1.6‑billion deficit come from? What I do know is that we left this gov­ern­ment with a $270‑million surplus.

      Can the Minister of Finance (MLA Sala) speak to what impact that surplus is having on finances today?

MLA Sala: Yes, I mean, I suspect the member knows this, but I'll spell it out for him. Six and half years of massive cuts to every­thing that Manitobans rely on and then a des­per­ate flurry of invest­ments where they were hoping to stay in gov­ern­ment. And that's what we saw for them. As a result of their unbudgeted expenditures, they left us a $1.6‑billion hole. It's not hard to understand; it's because of their poor fiscal manage­ment.

Mr. Khan: You know, it's really sad that the minister wants to get up and keep referring to his MNP docu­ment, and he actually did read the fine print in that docu­ment. It said that it was an unaudited political docu­ment with infor­ma­tion only provided by the minister. I mean, I think that's a pretty one‑sided docu­ment if you ask anyone in this room. One person's provi­ding infor­ma­tion, one person's writing based on that infor­ma­tion. So this debt, $1.6‑billion deficit, is a big deficit.

       The question is simply to the Minister of Finance, is how does the Minister of Finance expect to develop all of the Hydro capital projects that he's spoken about by not putting Hydro further in debt?

MLA Sala: Well, again, we're back to this MNP report. I'm not sure if the member opposite has a CPA or CFA designation. We trust the work of MNP; they're a very respected busi­ness here in the province and, of course, they operate across the country and beyond. They made a very clear set of statements in that report, which outlined and spoke to the previous gov­ern­ment's com­plete lack of fiscal respon­si­bility.

      We're going to do it differently. We're going to make sure we balance our fiscal interests while we deliver on health care and affordability im­prove­ments.

Mr. Piwniuk: I just wanted to ask the Minister of Finance, what is his plan now? I know when I was the Trans­por­tation minister, I actually did a five‑year budget plan for all the lists of all the projects ahead. I  come from the–when it comes to the–[interjection] I don't know what the member for Keewatinook (Mr. Bushie)–if he's still getting his wages garnished. Is he getting his wages still garnished?

      So, Hon­our­able Speaker, my question for the minister now, is there a possi­bility that they're going to be fulfilling all those budget items on the budget?

MLA Sala: Hon­our­able Speaker, I regret to say I couldn't catch the question.

      But here's what I'll say. The previous gov­ern­ment left us a $1.6-billion hole. We're going to do things differently. We're going to make invest­ments that Manitobans relying on us on to fix health care, fix affordability, fix edu­ca­tion, all while we take care of our fiscal interests. That's what Manitobans can expect from our new NDP gov­ern­ment.

The Speaker: The time for questions has expired.

      Order, please. Order, please. Order, please. Call members to order, please. Thank you. There's just a little glitch here that we need to figure out before we move on.

* (15:50)

      Order, please.

      I want to make members aware that there was an error in the wording of the motion moved by the Minister of Finance regarding the reso­lu­tions passed in the Com­mit­tee of Supply.

      Is there leave to revert back to allow the correct motion to be moved? [Agreed]

Interim Supply Motion

(Continued)

Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister of Finance): I move, seconded by the Minister for Housing, Addictions and Homelessness, that there be granted to His Majesty on account of Certain Expenditures of the Public Service for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025, out of the Consolidated Fund, for the purposes set out in the 2024 Estimates, including Sup­ple­mentary Estimates, sums not exceeding $12,602,005,000, being 75 per cent of the total amount to be voted as set out in part A, Operating Expenditures of those Estimates; $902,570,000, being 90 per cent of the total amount to be voted as set out in part B, Capital Invest­ment of those Estimates; $445,315,000, being 90 per cent of the total amount to be voted as set out in part C, Loans and Guarantees of those Estimates; $822,516,000, being 90 per cent of the total amount to be voted as set out in part D, Capital Invest­ments, by Other Reporting Entities of those Estimates.

The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the–[interjection] Oh.

      It has been moved by the hon­our­able Minister of Finance, seconded by the hon­our­able Minister of Educa­tion and Early–[interjection] My mistake. Apparent­ly we're all doing it today.

      It has been moved by the hon­our­able Minister of Finance, seconded by the hon­our­able Minister of Housing, Addictions and Homelessness (Ms. Smith) and Mental Health, that there be granted to His Majesty on account of Certain Expenditures of the Public Service for the fiscal year–

Some Honourable Members: Dispense.

The Speaker: Dispense.

      Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed]

Second Readings

(Continued)

Bill 25–The Interim Appropriation Act, 2024

(Continued)

Debate

The Speaker: Resuming second reading debate on the motion.

      Are there members wishing to speak?

      The hon­our­able minister of–sorry, the hon­our­able member for Fort Whyte.

Mr. Obby Khan (Fort Whyte): I want to thank everyone for today, and thank the Minister of Finance (MLA Sala) for his questions. And I believe he truly, heartfully answered the questions. I know the Minister of Finance and I have gone back and forth quite a bit, but I believe we do have a respectful relationship out­side of these walls and within.

      The im­por­tant issue at hand here is we're talking about the future of the province of Manitoba, here, the financial situation that we find ourselves in today. And it's clear, it's evident by anyone that lives in this province–has seen over decades that the NDP do not know how to run this province.

      It's clear the last time they were in gov­ern­ment that they left this province with an $846-million deficit. It's clear that they're going to raise taxes even when they say they're not going to raise taxes. They raised the PST when Selinger promised he wouldn't raise the taxes, and I believe there probably are a couple colleagues on that side–there's a lot of new ones, so a lot of new ones that you can't hold them to, but some of them were there.

      But that speaks to the makeup of what the NDP party is. They're going to raise your taxes when they say they're not going to, they're going to–[interjection]

      You know, when it comes to civility, when it comes to talking, you have the Minister of Edu­ca­tion heckling non‑stop when we're just trying to get some records on the words and talk about historical facts.

      The facts are–is, $846-million deficit. The facts are the Minister of Edu­ca­tion, two days ago, cancelled exams in the province and then the next day, he woke up and he added them back on; another flip-flop by this gov­ern­ment.

      We can go down the road of flip-flops, or we can go down the road and talk about financial literacy. The issue is financial literacy, if it's the NDP, are two words that do not go together.

      When it comes to today's question period, six questions were asked, and the Premier (Mr. Kinew), the leader of this NDP party, stood up and not once did he answer any of the questions that were asked about the finances of this province.

      Manitobans have a right to know what's hap­pening in this province. Manitobans have a right to know how they're going to pay their bills, where they're–what their next paycheque's going to be like, what their next tax savings are going to be like–or, under this NDP, when their next tax hike is going to come, which, according to this Minister of Finance (MLA Sala), is June 1, 14 cents they're going to add back onto the gas tax.

      That gas tax holiday was around for two and a half weeks in this province, and we saw gas prices go right back up just like we said they were going to, in com­mit­tee. It's in Hansard. We said every other province has done this gas tax, and the gas tax gets creeped away to holiday. We put it on the record. Minister didn't want to listen. Minister went forward with it. Two and a half weeks later, gas tax holiday was wiped out.

      Now, that's not a listening gov­ern­ment. A listen­ing gov­ern­ment would have listened and said, hey, let's look at all the facts; yes, you're right, the same thing happened in Alberta, Ontario, other provinces was–that was put in. A fiscally respon­si­ble gov­ern­ment would have looked at that, said yes, that's not the right thing to do. Is there better ways? And on top of that, it's $180 million to the prov­incial reserves, coffers.

      Now, when it comes to tax cuts, and we spoke openly about this, that we are well in favour of supporting a tax cut, that we need to make life more affordable, that there are better ways to do it than this gas tax. But they didn't want to listen.

      The same thing happened–if we're going back, because we got to talk about how we got to this situation here–is that the NDP gov­ern­ment prior to this left this province eight-hundred-seventy–forty-six million dollars in the hole. How did that happen?

      Well, one example is the Keeyask dam project. When they went–tripled the debt of Hydro. Tripled it. When advisors said, don't do it this way, don't do it that way, do it this way, they went ahead and did it the way they wanted to do. It cost $8.7 billion to make that.

      Now, that is contributing to 10 per cent of the energy in this province, and it's a great project that's going forward that's been finally online now–on–came online under the previous PC gov­ern­ment. And it's creating 10 per cent of the energy of this province.

      The problem is, though, is that this province is going to run out of energy by 2029, and this gov­ern­ment has no plans to make more energy. This gov­ern­ment has no plans to double it. How are they going to double the energy capacity in this province when Keeyask took 15 years to build? Hon­our­able Speaker, 2029 is six years–six–five years away. Took 15 years to build Keeyask at a price tag of $8.7 billion; that's going to be well over $10 billion if you try to make a project like that again.

      Now, we don't have the resources, we don't have the land, we don't have the water to make that type of thing, but we have to go forward in a respon­si­ble manner. Now, when you're looking at an energy crisis, you think, okay, we–how are we going to handle this? The first thing you do is you don't fire the CEO.

      This minister fired the CEO. And the minister wants to say it was a board decision, and it was funny–it was not funny, actually; it was quite sad and unfor­tunate that it came out in com­mit­tee that in the–it was reported that there was an official review process done of the CEO of Hydro. An official review process had started once this gov­ern­ment took office.

* (16:00)

      And, shockingly, what did Manitobans find out when we went to com­mit­tee and we asked the board. The board chair said, oh, no, there is no formal review process started. We just had a con­ver­sa­tion and we decided to let her go.

      That's how we let go of one of the longest serving CEOs in Manitoba Hydro history? That's how we let go of the first CEO who made a ERP, and I bet you that members opposite don't know what ERP–energy resource plan–on how this province would go forward. That's the first CEO that had a strategic–came up with strategic plan 2040.

      And this minister came in and fired her. Why? Because there was a disagreement in the media on how this province would go forward, how this pro­vince would go fiscally respon­si­ble forward.

      That is the issue at hand. When this previous NDP gov­ern­ment left us with $846 million audited reports.

      Now, this member wants to refer to an MNP report, and they say well, MNP says this. Well, yes. MNP review is just the rehashed NDP talking points and the accounting firm had a disclaimer right in the middle of the report that said they do not have access to any Cabinet or any de­part­mental briefing infor­ma­tion, minutes or anything beyond what the NDP minister's words and what he has provided.

      I mean, to me that sounds like a pretty one-sided report, if you want the report to go your way. Anybody would know that, everyone would see that, but we–and I'm not slighting the work of MNP at all. MNP's a great firm in this province. Their credibility is not in question.

      What is at credibility is this NDP's gov­ern­ment–what is at question here is the overspending that this gov­ern­ment likes to do. What is at question here is that $700 million in a special warrant that this NDP gov­ern­ment had to ask for–$700 million. And then they want to say well, $700 million's to cover all the over­spend by the previous gov­ern­ment, it's to cover all the promises that were made that wasn't counted for–$700 million.

      Previous gov­ern­ments had it at $43 million, at $87 million over two years for special warrants to cover the odds and ends expenses that might need to be covered. I apologize–a little dry still. When you–and I know, you know, it's hard to wrap your head around a number like $700 million.

      It's hard to wrap your head around a number like $8.7 billion and tripling the debt of Hydro to $25 billion–$25 billion is what Hydro is out right now, in debt. Hon­our­able Speaker, 33 cents on every dollar you spend on your hydro bill goes to pay the interest on the debt alone–the interest on the debt alone.

      And we are going to run into an energy crisis in this province. The CEO–the interim CEO, not the one that they fired–the interim CEO and the chair both agreed that we're probably going to run up capacity here, energy production by 2029. That's five years. This gov­ern­ment has a plan that they want to put in geothermal pumps.

      And the minister's on the record talking about what, geothermal air, ground, it's kind of all the same thing. Yes. It's all the same thing. [interjection] I'm glad the members opposite are clapping. I'm glad the members opposite are clapping when their minister says that air and geothermal pumps are the same thing. That is how delusional this NDP gov­ern­ment is, that they actually think those are the same in this province.

      It's comical that you're in com­mit­tee and the minister thinks that. It's comical that the minister now, as she's trying to heckle me, wants to debate that, but it's in Hansard; anybody can read it.

      When you look at the costs of these projects, you know, this gov­ern­ment announced–so we're in an energy crisis and we need to get off fossil fuels. There's no question about that. We need to go cleaner. There's no question about that. Clean, renewable, re-useable energy sources. This is the direction we have to go.

      When I asked the Minister of Finance (MLA Sala) how much it's going to cost for this transition, he had said you need to ask the minister of Efficiency Manitoba, the member for Assiniboia (MLA Kennedy)–no, sorry. Not member for Assiniboia; member for Rossmere (MLA Schmidt).

      So I asked that minister at Efficiency Manitoba, and there's no answer given. No answer given. I said, well, the Minister of Finance told me to ask you how much it's going to cost to transition Manitobans off fossil fuels, and the minister of Efficiency Manitoba did not want to answer the question.

      Why not? If they're running on a plat­form and a promise to convert all 260,000 houses in this pro­vince, how are they going to do it?

      The cost of one of those, Hon­our­able Speaker, conservatively, $30,000, up to $50,000. Let's take the middle mark, let's go $40,000. They had talked about creating hubs and creating com­mu­nities around that, the cost would be even more gross–even higher.

      The issue is the time, the ability, the capacity, the workforce to get this done. This gov­ern­ment is living in a magical world where they're going to pull out a wand and just wave it and that geothermal pump is going to get installed.

      If we do the math quickly, $40,000 per house times 260,000 houses is going to cost the province a lot of money. Astronomical. Astronomical. And then this gov­ern­ment committed, during their campaign, with one of their promises, that they're going to convert 5,000 homes. They're going to convert 5,000 homes to geothermal.

      Those 5,000 homes, how much is that going to cost, $10.5 billion for the entire province? Ten point five billion for the entire province; $10.5 billion–I mean, they can just take out a special warranty like they did already and probably pay for it that way, and then saddle taxpayers, Manitobans, with paying for that. Just like they did with the Keeyask dam: 33 cents.

      But you look at the 5,000–and Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe) wants me to throw around credible numbers, let me throw around credible numbers for the Minister of Justice. A credible number for the Minister of Justice, since you feel so obliged to chirp up in this con­ver­sa­tion here, is 100 days; 100 days when he said that they would get bail reform back on track, and he hasn't.

      So if we want to talk about 'credical'–we want to talk about credible numbers, I would advise the Minister of Justice to maybe wait until he gets his op­por­tun­ity to speak to this. We're here to talk about the finances of this province.

      And when we talk about that, we look at 5,000 heat pumps that this gov­ern­ment had promised. So, 5,000 heat pumps at $40,000 each is a lot of money. It's a lot of money. It's a lot of hot air. It's geothermal pumps, not an air pump, so it's different.

      This are–these are real decisions this province, this gov­ern­ment has to make, how they're going to go forward. This minister was clear that they–going to keep Manitoba Hydro public. Okay, great. Love it. Love it. How are you going to build more capacity in the next five years? You fired the CEO. The one that designed the ERP and the strategic plan for 2040, she's fired. When asked in com­mit­tee how they're going to do it, this interim CEO and the board chair said we're going to meet about it.

      They haven't even met about it? They haven't even talked about it and we're four years away–or five years away from running out of capacity in this province, and they want to build heat pumps? Geothermal homes? Great idea. Who's going to pay for it?

      This–these are im­por­tant con­ver­sa­tions that Manitobans need to know. How are they going to pay for all of these promises? How are they going to do that on top of–Hon­our­able Speaker, here's the real kicker: on top it–of it all, what does this minister want to do? This minister wants to go right to the Public Utilities Board and say, hey, freeze Hydro. Freeze the rates.

      If I have ever heard of influence and interfering, I don't know if there's any other way than saying you have to freeze the rates. I mean, I would assume that's interfering. If you tell somebody they have to do some­thing and then they go do it, that is interfering.

      The minister, over and over again as I listened to him over the years–again, I have a lot of respect for this minister. I think he's a really smart guy. Hear, hear. He is. He is. I'll go on the record and say that. Yes. I'll go on the record and say that.

      But this minister here sat here over and over again and said interfering with Public Utilities Board, interfering with Public Utilities Board, interfering, interfering, interfering, and he went out time and time again–and with this Premier (Mr. Kinew)–and said we are going to freeze Hydro rates. Who sets the Hydro rates? The Public Utilities Board.

      So if they're going to–if they set the rate, how are they going to freeze it? Because the minister tells them to. That is inter­ference at its fun­da­mental, basic level. I don't understand that. We've asked in the House for clarity on that, he hasn't provided it, I don't imagine he's going to provide. But they promised they were going to do that to Manitobans. Where is it?

      They promised they were going to freeze the Hydro rates. Where is that? Another flip-flop. This NDP gov­ern­ment has a spending problem, period.

* (16:10)

      They–spenDP is what they've been dubbed. They have $3 billion in new promises on their plat­form and they have no idea how to pay for it other than borrow­ing money against Manitobans that Manitobans are going to pay for–$700 million in a special warrant.

      We tabled today $9.25 billion in orders-in-council alone–$9.25 billion. This is close to half of the funds budgeted for the past fiscal year. It is far greater than any previous gov­ern­ment has ever borrowed for–from an order-in-council, even during pandemic and flood years.

      This NDP gov­ern­ment–we left them with a $250‑million surplus. Now I know they're going to say that $250 million–it actually ended up getting a lot less because of weather.

      We were at com­mit­tee. We can't control the weather. The minister agrees he can't control it. We agree we can't control it. Sorry. Weather in this province is a large driver for revenue for Hydro.

      We understand that it's been a little bit drier, it's been not as much snow as forecasted. That has affected it. But a $9.25‑billion orders-in-council? Does the minister even have any idea what the interest rate and the debt‑servicing costs on that are going to be?

      Hey, there's simple math: 33 cents on $25 billion at Hydro? This is about $10 billion, so you're probably looking at about 15 cents. That's another 15 cents of every Manitoban's dollar going to service the debt of this irresponsible spending by this NDP gov­ern­ment that's going to be coming forward in this budget.

      Previous gov­ern­ments: $4 billion. I laid the math out earlier. They want to talk about a deficit that the previous gov­ern­ment left. You know what I'm talking about, this fake deficit. This $1.6‑billion fake deficit from reports that only they can provide the infor­ma­tion to.

      Okay. Let's just say for argument's sake, for imagi­nary land with our imaginary wand that we borrowed from the NDP, we have that $1.6‑billion deficit.

      Previously, when the PC gov­ern­ment took over in  2017, they had borrowed 850–there was an 850‑million–$846‑million deficit. They had to borrow $2 billion–the PC gov­ern­ment–to get their way out of the hole the NDP left them, and get the province back on track.

      So by that math, double that, 846 double, 1.6 billion–they should borrow four billion, not 10 billion; not 10. Where does that come from?

      You know, the members opposite want to talk about that we left–the previous gov­ern­ment left them in terrible shape. Sorry.

      They want to talk about how the previous gov­ern­ment left them in these dire straits: $250‑million surplus. Mr. Speaker, 2019 and 2022, the PC gov­ern­ment led–left a surplus in reserves. First time–what was that?–since 2019.

      When was the last time it was done before that, Mr. Speaker? I don't think–Hon­our­able Speaker, I don't think you answer questions. Sorry, I got carried away.

      Hon­our­able Speaker, 2019 was the first time there was a surplus at the end of the year, and before that, 2017. Rewind–17 years was all NDP–2008. That's embarrassing. That's an embar­rass­ing track record that this NDP party is known for. It's ingrained in them.

      Spend, spend, spend. Tax, tax, tax. Let the next guy clean it up. Well, you know what? We're going to hold them accountable right now. It starts now. It started a long time ago. It started the first day, I guess, we were on this side.

      That's what our job is, to hold them accountable. They have to be held accountable for these irrespon­sible borrowing: $9.25 billion, $700 million, when pre­­viously it was $43 million in special permits.

      The interest cost on that alone; the debt-servicing costs on that. How does this gov­ern­ment plan to pay for that along with their $3 billion in promises, along with their promises that everyone knows they can't uphold.

      But what they can do is they can cut and make you pay more taxes. We've seen it in the edu­ca­tion file, upwards of 17 per cent tax increases.

      Now, NDP, very crafty with their words. We're not going to raise the taxes, we're just going to make the school boards and trustees do it. Because they cut the funding.

      That's how it works for these guys. They raise the taxes: 17 per cent at school boards. When you look at previous gov­ern­ment–I've mentioned the special war­rants, I've mentioned the increase in taxes, and now we'll talk about some cuts that this gov­ern­ment's going to be proposing. And this directly affects Manitobans.

      BSC–we heard on the record two days in a row–BSC's going to be cut. A foundation of building stronger com­mu­nities, building sus­tain­able com­mu­nities, gone. By these guys. ACSC fund–art, sports, culture in com­mu­nity fund, $100 million. And they say it was not accounted for, and yet there's an ISA that their leader tabled, quite embarrassingly, actually. An ISA means it's accounted for in the budget. [interjection]

      I know the Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe) is confused by that. He should probably look at that and understand what an ISA really is. That money was accounted for. These are lifelines for com­mu­nities that this gov­ern­ment is now going to cut. Building com­mu­nity centres, hockey rinks, arts centres, performing centres, cultural events, heritage events, cricket fields–Assiniboine Park just announced yesterday that they're starting construction on their upgrade to the cricket fields there.

      These are im­por­tant programs that this gov­ern­ment is going to be cutting come April 2. They're going to be raising your taxes on April 1. Well, sorry; it's going to be the NDP‑Liberal coalition that will be increasing your taxes on April 1. And that's not a joke. That's going up to 18 cents, carbon tax, where seven other premiers in this country, coast to coast, have called on Justin Trudeau, our Premier's (Mr. Kinew) best friend, to say, hey, Justin, maybe you should get rid of the carbon tax. Hey, Justin, I know you're giving us the largest‑in‑history transfer–the largest‑in‑history transfer, because–[interjection]

      And the members opposite want to say, you're welcome. Well, they should say you're welcome to the Manitobans. They should say that to Manitobans because of this Premier's (Mr. Kinew) backing of Justin Trudeau. They think they're getting the money because they're so nice? This is a political play done by this Premier and this gov­ern­ment. They're getting this money so they support the carbon tax.

      Seven premiers across Canada, whether they be Liberal, NDP or Progressive Conservative or Conservative, have said, axe the tax. It's got to go. It's making life more unaffordable for Canadians. Seven premiers. And for some reason this Minister of Finance (MLA Sala) and this Premier think they know better than all of them? When everyone has said that this is not a good tax. Everyone says this tax has to go.

      And they want to clap for keeping the tax right now, on the record, you can probably hear it, they're clapping for keeping the tax. They want to keep the tax. You probably heard that. It's despicable that they think paying 18 cents more on April 1, when this Premier won't even send a letter to the Prime Minister. Send a letter to the Prime Minister.

      He said he would do it; he said he won't do it. Minister of Finance says we should probably get rid of the tax; Premier says, no, we want to keep it. Then Premier goes to Toronto and meets with Premier Ford and says, yes, yes, we'll get rid of it. Comes back to Winnipeg, says, no, we're going to keep it.

      What is he going to do? When is he going to make up his mind? This Premier and this gov­ern­ment pro­mises they cannot cash. We are seeing it come through now, and it's only been six months. Given another year or two, all of the promises they made will be broken. They're not going to be able to open the three ERs. They're not going to do the things they said they're going to do, because they can't afford it. They plain and simple cannot afford it.

      The magical wand will not make unlimited resources money; they cannot keep going back and borrowing $700 million or $9.25 billion, $5.25 billion more than anyone's ever borrowed for that, $700 million when the previous largest was $80 million. This is astronomical amounts of borrowing this gov­ern­ment is doing, and they're only six months in. They haven't even done anything they said they wanted to do.

      This is going to cause a massive problem for Manitobans. We need to take a pause, think about this irresponsible spending that's going–and we're going to–and if not, we're going to end up in the same spot we did when they left office in 2017.

* (16:20)

      And in 2027, when they get kicked out of office again, the PCs will come in and we will clean up their mess. That's the history of this province. That is the history of this province, okay?

      Now, how do we get out this? How do we get out of this? How do we get out of this? We say that, hopefully, the budget they're going to table is going to have some sort of fiscal restraint, what they're bor­rowing; I won't–I doubt that's going to happen.

      We look at responsible decisions being made. Well, they promised–he promised in '26, 260,000 Manitobans at a price of $10.5 billion. I don't know how this could happen. They promised to freeze the hydro tax. Not going to happen. They promised to build three new ERs, not going to happen. We heard today that they're actually picking and choosing which immigrants come to Canada and denying other ones that want to come here and work.

      We hear over and over again that this gov­ern­ment is not financially ready to do what they have to do. Premier today had op­por­tun­ity to answer six questions on finances. Did not answer one of them.

      Now, member opposite distracted me a little bit when I mentioned equalization payments. We have $843 million coming in from the federal gov­ern­ment, 24 per cent increase. That's great. Where's that money going to go? Manitobans have a right to know: where is that money going to go? How are they going to spend it?

      We have a right to know that that money will be spent responsibly, it will be spent on making this province better, and that's what we're going to hold them accountable to. We can't have the same cycle repeat itself over and over and over again. The–there's too much at stake here.

      The province–and I know the minister will agree with me on this, and I don't think the minister wants to make any mistakes going forward. He agrees that this province, there's too much at stake here. We have to go forward properly. I hope that the minister will use financial 'literastry' and restraint to make the right decisions on how to go forward.

      But, based on what we've seen and what we've heard from this NDP gov­ern­ment in the past, I don't know how that's going to happen. We hope, for Manitoba's sake, that it will. We'll see what happens when the budget is tabled, and then we will proceed from there.

      The biggest issue we have right now in this pro­vince–well, I mean, I'd say there's a lot of problems in this province–spe­cific­ally to the finances. We are in a time of high inflationary costs. And the minister is going to say that they got inflation down. That's one of many things, one of many factors.

      It's–you know, the Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe) is–wants to jump on these things right away, but the Minister of Justice is, you know, doesn't understand that there's many factors that play into that, and it is what it is. Interest rates, inflation, food costs, carbon tax, hydro, these are all im­por­tant issues that have to be addressed fiscally respon­si­ble in this province. And if we don't do it the right way, we are going to be setting up for failure for gen­era­tions to come. [interjection]

      And in those seven years–the member says, you had seven years–and in those seven years, we left this gov­ern­ment $250 million in surplus. So in those seven years, $250 million.

      Hon­our­able Speaker, I guess there's no better point to end on that than we left this NDP gov­ern­ment $250 million. As of right now, they have borrowed over $10 billion, and they're only six months into their job. May God help us for the next three and a half years.

      Thank you, Hon­our­able Speaker.

The Speaker: Are there–the hon­our­able member for Borderland.

Mr. Josh Guenter (Borderland): It's a pleasure to rise today to put a few words on the record and speak to the debate today. And I ap­pre­ciated hearing from the member for Fort Whyte (Mr. Khan) on several of the points that he outlined and look forward to, obviously, more debate on these im­por­tant issues.

      And I ap­pre­ciate that, finally, we are debating some­thing that is im­por­tant, that is well within the realm of this gov­ern­ment, this Legislature, which is talking about finances; the finances of gov­ern­ment and taxes and the impact on Manitoba families and Manitoba taxpayers.

      And this comes after many days of divisive debate on the part of the NDP gov­ern­ment and, frankly, in their nearly six months now in gov­ern­ment, where they have focused almost exclusively on symbolism and prioritized a tinkering around on divisive social issues, whether it's the prayer here in the Chamber, whether it's the–any number of things that they've brought forward.

      I think it's interesting the two days that they wasted on their very exclusive and narrow motion focused on the Middle East, and in­cred­ibly divisive and highly exclusive.

      And it's just–it's exhibit A; this gov­ern­ment is exhibit A for that socialist liberal tendency of saying that somehow, the–somehow, Conservatives and people who are pro‑family, pro‑faith, pro‑love their country, love this country, are somehow hateful and divisive people, and in their motion, just totally exclude that in their debate–so exclusive in that debate. And frankly, it's unbecoming of a gov­ern­ment. But it's just coming out of two days of that and having seen, over the last six months, the symbolism over substance, time and time again.

      And I think, you know, a new holiday, a new–declaring a new premier, a–all of these things that they come out with at a time when–and I know the members opposite are upset, but guess what, Hon­our­able Speaker? Manitobans will soon realize what this gov­ern­ment is all about, because they are struggling at this time. They are struggling to pay their mort­­gages. They are struggling to feed their families.

      They are struggling, Hon­our­able Speaker, and they're going to realize in June, when the gas tax goes up another 14 cents, that they've been had by this gov­ern­ment, and that's what we should be talking about, is issues–those bread-and-butter issues that–those day-to-day issues–that affect moms and dads and families all across this province. And those are the issues that we should be focused on.

      And yet this gov­ern­ment has absolutely no interest–no interest, in the last six months; have demon­strated no interest at all in focusing in on those issues.

      And so I appreciate that here we are. And finally they've tipped their hand, and they've said, well, you can't avoid a budget debate. We're going to have to come out with a budget. And so what we're going to do is raise that deficit to $1.6 billion, and that allows us to squirrel away a lot of that special interest funding that we want to do that go to their friends, the unions, all the special interest groups that helped get them here–the media, all the–all this typical socialist liberal behaviour that we're going to see from these folks at a time when Manitobans are driving on potholes and health-care wait times have never been longer.

      Honourable Speaker, these folks are flip-flopping when it comes to edu­ca­tion. They have no plan. Over $3 billion in election promises. Six months in gov­ern­ment, no results. We haven't heard a single thing from these folks.

      Hon­our­able Speaker, my advice to this gov­ern­ment is start acting like a gov­ern­ment. Start listening to Manitobans.

      Hon­our­able Speaker, they have left–they have put nothing on the table when it comes to health care. They have–they ran a campaign almost entirely on health care, and yet, they–[interjection]

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Guenter: –after six months of gov­ern­ment, no plan to recruit, retain or train staff. No plan. No new beds, Hon­our­able Speaker. No new beds. They have cut capacity with no plan in the short term.

* (16:30)

      In fact, Hon­our­able Speaker, I believe there is a strike going on right now that is impacting our most vul­ner­able people in the health-care sector. There are people in their wheelchairs, that are in their wheel­chairs for up to 20 hours or longer, that are not being looked after.

      This gov­ern­ment is in charge, they talked big while they were in op­posi­tion. They said, when we were in gov­ern­ment, you can go over there, fix it, get 'er done today. I implore this gov­ern­ment, if you think it can be done, if you have any heart at all, make it right and look after these folks that are–that frankly, it's a non-partisan issue. I think we can all agree that gov­ern­ment must look after those who cannot look after them­selves, and frankly, this gov­ern­ment is doing an awful job of doing that.

      But they have–there's a lack of trans­par­ency on wait times. They cut the diag­nos­tic and surgical task force with no plan on pro­gram­ming, and they have put their ideology over patient care.

      Hon­our­able Speaker, I have heard from many con­stit­uents who were so close to getting that hip or knee re­place­ment, who were so close to getting care in the United States. And yet this gov­ern­ment cut out-of-province, or in other provinces. And this gov­ern­ment cut out of care–out-of-province surgeries, and so now these folks are left not even on the wait list. They have no idea when they'll be looked after. And so they're left in pain.

      Hon­our­able Speaker, I find this absolutely deplorable. Six months in gov­ern­ment and absolutely no plan. Symbolism over results. Symbolism over substance.

      And frankly–[interjection] frankly, frankly, Honourable Speaker–[interjection]

      Frankly, Honourable Speaker, we are going to see more of this, and we've seen this from the NDP-Liberal gov­ern­ment. [interjection]

      They are excited over there, Hon­our­able Speaker. They are–it's so typical. Shout down–they don't like to hear the truth, I'll tell you that.

      But there are many Manitobans out there who are starting to realize that for a six-month, 14-cent cut of the gas tax, that they've been had. That gas tax is going back in June, and Manitobans will realize very quickly this gov­ern­ment does not have their back.

      And they're realizing that now with the lack of any plan on health care, and it's astounding, Hon­our­able Speaker, that not only is there not a plan, but they seem to be cutting the $1.5 billion, $1.6-billion expansion at HSC is–has been shelved. They have cut–they have cancelled plans for new personal-care homes, and my heart goes out to those folks who were looking forward to that.

      And you look at the nine new schools that our gov­ern­ment was going to build, our Conservative gov­ern­ment. They have put those plans on ice, as well. Hon­our­able Speaker, at a time, as I mentioned, pot­holes; our roads and infra­structure. Our gov­ern­ment spent record amounts on infra­structure and got done all that we possibly could and this gov­ern­ment has put forward no plan on infrastructure.

      And I'm curious what their plan is on the Lake St. Martin outlet channel. I'm curious what their plan is for Kenaston, for the expansion there. I'm curious what their plan is for Highway 75, for infra­structure across the province. But they have no plan. There is absolutely no plan.

      And Hon­our­able Speaker, what we have seen, though, is that they are going back to their old–the old socialist ways that we saw in the 17 years that they were in power, how that they raised taxes 15 times in 14 years. They tripled Manitoba Hydro's debt. So, today, 33 cents of every dollar that every Manitoban has to pay in Hydro: senior or parent or young person, renter; 33 cents of every dollar goes to serving–servicing Manitoba Hydro's debt.

      So you think about that. Think about that impact on Manitobans. The impact of higher debt and higher debt costs. And that's the path that we're on under this gov­ern­ment. After six months, no plan on edu­ca­tion, no plan on health care, no plan on any of these–and no plan on infra­structure; and yet, they're going to plunge us into more debt, higher taxes and higher debt-servicing charges–higher debt-servicing fees, and we've seen where that has got us. And it's going to–it's not going to be pretty.

      We see where that gets us in Canada with the federal NDP and Liberal coalition, where after eight years of them writing our budgets and spending Canadian taxpayer dollars, that last week, the Parlia­mentary Budget Officer released a report warning that the NDP-Liberal gov­ern­ment spending plans remain out of control, that the amount the taxpayers spend just to service the national debt is expected to go up by 33.4 per cent this year and 11.6 per cent in the coming year.

      So what does that mean in absolute terms? That means that the amount we pay to cover the interest on the national debt will rise from $35 billion last year to 40–almost $47 billion this year and $52 billion next year. What does that mean? Well, the federal gov­ern­ment transfers $49.2 billion in health care. Debt-servicing charges of–debt payments of $52 billion is more than what they pay in health care.

      Prov­incially, we can expect the same: a repeat of those results. We can expect the same results. We're going to see this gov­ern­ment grow the debt-servicing de­part­ment–if it were a de­part­ment–rapidly, as they did before we came into–before the Conservatives formed gov­ern­ment in 2016 and sorted out the finan­cial mess that they left us with. And they're going to grow the debt-servicing charges, and that's going to have an impact at a time of high interest rates and high inflation. And, frankly, it creates a, in economic terms, a vicious cycle that's very, very hard to pull out of.

      And I think this gov­ern­ment has not thought out the path forward. They've pledged–they've put for­ward that they're going to be balancing the budget so they're running three–in four years, but in the mean­time, they're running three artificial deficits. And I think it's so interesting that we're supposed to take that at face value when Canadians and Manitobans have seen this movie before. We've seen how the federal Trudeau Liberals, supported by their NDP friends, pledged to run three deficits and how that, in the last eight years, we haven't run a single balanced budget. The deficits have progressively grown. They've gotten bigger. Debt-servicing charges are higher. Inflation is higher. Folks are finding it hard to make ends meet.

      And that's where this gov­ern­ment is sending us, is sending Manitobans: into a future, a dark future, of high debt, high tax. And, frankly, what's going to happen is Manitobans are–it's already happening, but Manitobans are leaving. They're leaving. They're going elsewhere. They're pursuing op­por­tun­ities elsewhere in juris­dic­tions where the cost of living is better, where the taxes are lower, where the op­por­tun­ities are more plentiful.

      What we're going to see under this gov­ern­ment again is what we saw in the last 17 years that they were in power, from 1999 to 2016, is this pervasive prob­lem of capital flight of busi­nesses and investors and entrepreneurs taking their money and taking their busi­ness elsewhere and choosing not to invest in this province, all because of a gov­ern­ment that has decided to put symbolism over substance, that has decided to focus on divisive wedge issues rather than issues that Manitobans are primarily seized with.

      And so, Hon­our­able Speaker, I am deeply con­cerned about the direction that we're headed. You would think that after eight years of the federal Liberal-NDP tax-and-spend policies, you would think that this NDP gov­ern­ment would understand that Manitobans are not in the mood for high-tax, high-spend gov­ern­ance. They're not in the mood for higher taxes and more gov­ern­ment spending. But here we are, six months in. This gov­ern­ment, again, symbol­ism over substance. No plan on health care. No plan on edu­ca­tion. And here we are, looking at a $1.6‑billion deficit, endless tax, endless tax hikes–[interjection]

* (16:40)

The Speaker: Order, please. I don't think hollering back and forth across the Chamber is going to be very helpful. I can't hear the member who's speaking; you're now drowning out your own member, so let the member have the floor, please.

Mr. Guenter: It's interesting that members opposite take umbrage with–I think it's–I think it resonates. It's the truth, and I think that's why it resonates with them because I think they realize that they've been caught, that their–that really, is all that they've got, is put forward, is focus on those divisive wedge issues.

      Frankly, Manitobans are not interested in that. Manitobans have had enough of that. Manitobans want a gov­ern­ment that is focused on their priorities, and their priorities are paying that mortgage, feeding their children. Frankly, they're not interested in big gov­ern­ment telling them how to live their lives. They just want gov­ern­ment to get out of the way and let them live their lives and do the things that make them happy and build that brighter, happier future for their families.

      But this gov­ern­ment's not going to allow that to happen. This gov­ern­ment is jacking up the deficit, hiking spending and raising taxes. And what's–again, what I find so perplexing is there's absolutely no plan. I don't know why this Legislature should endorse this spending plan at the same time that they don't have any substance. And where is the plan on health care? In fact, I mean, like I said, they're–they've axed the $1.6‑billion HSC expansion; they've axed those–the personal-care homes that we were going to build. They've put the nine new schools on ice.

      So, frankly, if they've cancelled all these programs–the Building Sus­tain­able Com­mu­nities program–wonderful program–because it gave a pat on the back to those small town and big city here in Winnipeg, as well as Brandon, and all across the province–rural folks, urban folks–all those volunteers who got together around a com­mu­nity priority and a com­mu­nity project and sold it to the com­mu­nity, raised the funds. And this program, Building Sus­tain­able Com­mu­nities program, came along and said, you know what, we'll–for every dollar you've raised, we'll throw in a dollar of our own. You've done great work. We'll support–we'll get behind your vision.

      And so, many projects–hundreds of projects across this province–were supported through that program. This gov­ern­ment, the NDP–the socialist NDP gov­ern­ment–has cut that program. And it's amazing to me, they're–it's amazing to me–it's amazing. You talk about edu­ca­tion. It was our gov­ern­ment that was on track to building 22 new schools; we had 14 of them done, in the pipeline another nine to go. Of course, as I indicated, this gov­ern­ment–the NDP gov­ern­ment–have now put those nine on ice, so those aren't going ahead.

      But it's interesting that they accused us of cutting the Edu­ca­tion budget, when we actually hiked it by over $100 million last year: a 6.1 per cent increase. Their first op­por­tun­ity in power to touch the Edu­ca­tion budget, and what do they do? A below-inflation increase to the Edu­ca­tion budget, and then they allow school divisions to tax, and so now we're looking at 17, 18 per cent tax hikes–property tax hikes.

      So as I said, Hon­our­able Speaker, we're not even six months into this gov­ern­ment, and Manitobans are realizing, it's symbolism over substance. Manitobans are getting the bill in the mail. They're seeing their property taxes jacked up. They're looking at that June deadline on that gas-tax cut where they're looking at a 14-cent hike. And they're, at the same time, seeing this NDP Premier (Mr. Kinew) waffling in the wind on the carbon tax. He's one of three premiers–he's in the minority on this, actually, across the country, in defending Justin Trudeau and his carbon tax. He apparently wants to perpetuate the carbon tax here in the province.

      So, no–absolutely no results. Manitobans are look­ing at these dismal results. They're looking at the bill. They elected this gov­ern­ment, and they get these bills–these tax bills–coming from this NDP gov­ern­ment.

      And I wonder what's going on, what con­ver­sa­tions are being had around the kitchen tables across this province as moms and dads are talking about that trip that they wanted to take, perhaps. That trip that they wanted to take; maybe take their family down to SeaWorld, maybe take their family to Banff, maybe they wanted to finish that bathroom reno, maybe they wanted to put some money aside, fix the deck, maybe they wanted to buy some new tires for the car.

      The fact of the matter is, Hon­our­able Speaker, they're looking at these tax bills coming due, and they're saying, you know what, we're going to have to take this money, and we're going to have to set some aside so we can afford to pay for this NDP gov­ern­ment. We're going to have to make sure that we have enough money in the bank account to pay the bill that these socialists are sending us.

      Again, Hon­our­able Speaker, eight years of Justin Trudeau's Liberal‑NDP tax-and-spend policies, and this gov­ern­ment, not six months in, plows right in.

      They ran–this Premier, this NDP Premier, ran as if he was Pierre Poilievre in the election campaign, and now he's switched. He's flipped, and he's govern­ing like he's Justin Trudeau. Well, we know where that's going to end. We know where that's going to end. We can talk about the polls. We can talk about the polls, Hon­our­able Speaker, and we know this isn't going to work out well, because, let me tell this NDP gov­ern­ment, there is no–on behalf of Manitobans and Manitoba families across this province, there is no appetite for their tax hikes. There is no appetite for their tax-and-spend policies. There is no appetite. There is no appetite for their–there is no appetite for their tax-and-spend policies for higher debt, higher debt-servicing costs.

      Hon­our­able Speaker, the very least this gov­ern­ment could do is put forward a plan. If they're going to say that they're running a $1.6-billion deficit, the very least they could do is reveal where that money is going. There is no plan: no plan for health care, no plan for infra­structure, no plan for edu­ca­tion.

      So, as I say, Hon­our­able Speaker, Manitobans are sitting at the kitchen table, they're at–they're going to the coffee shops, and they're wondering–perhaps as they're on their way home from work in their car, they're on their commute and they're thinking these things through. And they're wondering how they're going to make ends meet with a gov­ern­ment, a prov­incial NDP gov­ern­ment, that does not–clearly does not have their back and is not interested in their priorities, not interested in putting forward a plan on health care and ensuring that those folks that were told that they can no longer have a surgery–their hip or knee or other surgeries done out of province within a matter of weeks; they can no longer have those done. They must now wait for months, if not years, languish on a wait-list somewhere and wait in pain.

      And I think of all those Manitobans out there who are now–those Manitobans, perhaps, who were look­ing forward to sending their children to one of those new schools that our gov­ern­ment had put forward and had a plan to build and now those schools are on ice.

      And I think of those Manitobans who are traveling our roads as it's spring again and wondering where this gov­ern­ment is at when it comes to the potholes that we're seeing opening up in our roads.

      So, Hon­our­able Speaker, there are very real issues at play, and this gov­ern­ment clearly has no in­ten­tion of focusing on any of those issues. And so we're going to be heading into this dark night for the next three and a half years, three years, whenever the next election is, of higher taxes, higher spending, poorer services–poorer services.

      I think it's unfor­tunate, because our gov­ern­ment in the last seven years, our Conservative gov­ern­ment, had showed that it's possible to cut the overall tax burden on Manitoba taxpayers, to put more money into services, more money into health care, more money into education to get better results. And we proved that that was possible.

* (16:50)

      And yet, this gov­ern­ment has gone back to the same old failed socialist policies of the '60s and '70s, and they're going to plunge us back into that same vicious cycle of higher debt, higher taxes, higher inflation, higher interest rates, and Manitoba families are going to be looking for the exits.

      It's sad. We've got a beautiful province, a lot of potential–a lot of potential in this province. But Manitobans are going to be looking for the exits.

      In fact, it's interesting that you have school board trustees who–they'll cast their vote in favour of 17 per cent tax hikes and then announce that they're taking off and ending up–they're going to be taking their family down to Tennessee. Tennessee, United States.

      So that's the future. That's the future for Manitobans, is look for op­por­tun­ities elsewhere, because this place, unfor­tunately, is in trouble if we–if the–if this socialist NDP gov­ern­ment doesn't change its ways.

      So, Hon­our­able Speaker, with those thoughts, I look forward to continuing debate on this and look forward to further comments from my colleagues. But let me just say that, again, that–em­pha­size and bring it all back home the–[interjection]– yes, let's tie it all back together. For the colleagues across the way, let me just say that after eight years–for the colleagues, for my socialist friends, for my socialist friends across the way–[interjection]

The Speaker: Order.

Mr. Guenter: –for my socialist friends, and maybe some communists in there, too. Maybe–[interjection]

      You know it's interesting, symbolism over sub­stance. I think of a quote from former US President Ronald Reagan, who said the problem–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Guenter: The problem with our social–the prob­lem with our liberal friends is that they know so much about things that just aren't true. And I like that. They can talk; they're masters at this. They can wax elo­quent about things that just aren't true. And that's why they prefer to focus on these divisive social, you know, symbolic-type issues that are so far removed from where Manitoba families are at.

An Honourable Member: Like health care.

Mr. Guenter: Well, no plan for health care. No plan. They want to talk health care, give us a plan. Show Manitobans a plan. No plan.

      After eight years of Liberal NDP tax-and-spend policies, here we are, and this NDP–prov­incial NDP gov­ern­ment–is going to embark on exactly that.

      And, in closing, again another great quote from the great US President Ronald Reagan, let me just say, he said, the liberal view of the economy, the socialist view of the economy can be summed up in this way: if it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.

Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): We all know what this bill is about. Today is the NDP gov­ern­ment's pre­par­ation for the big show, setting the stage for tax hikes and cutting services. We've seen it before, Honour­able Speaker, and we will certainly seen it again.

      And let me remind the opposite members about the $846-million deficit that Selinger left us. The Minister of Agri­cul­ture (Mr. Kostyshyn) was there. He voted for it. They depleted the rainy day fund. And that was during good economic con­di­tions. Maybe the NDP believe that we are in good economic con­di­tions right now. Manitobans certainly don't think so, and Canadians certainly don't think so.

      The hon­our­able member from Fort Whyte spoke about financial literacy. I come from the busi­ness sector; it's no secret. The members opposite know that I've come from the busi­ness sector. Yet the Premier (Mr. Kinew) has refused to answer questions about the province's finances.

      This bill is an indication of what is to come. They've promised to freeze hydro rates, but we don't know how that's going to happen. They promised three new hospitals. How? They're sending workers back overseas and not 'welking' them with open arms.

      Hon­our­able Speaker, $3 billion in campaign spend­ing commit­ments, yet we–they don't know how they're going to pay for them. They NDP are quickly closing in on $10 billion in borrowing since being elected just a few short months ago.

      This is not normal, Hon­our­able Speaker. It sug­gests a plan to run large deficits for many years to come, despite inflation and despite federal transfers growing significantly, and recently since 2021. In addition, the NDP have added $710 million in new spending on top of the 2023 budget that already had record increases from 2022.

      So, as I mentioned, coming from the busi­ness sector, let me provide some financial literacy. Fiscal and monetary policy are related. The gov­ern­ment cannot borrow more without causing more inflation. We need the private sector to drive Manitoba's economy and reduce red tape. We need to focus on growing the economy, Hon­our­able Speaker, bring in that revenue. Constant borrowing is not the answer. Growth-oriented policies are the answer.

      Over 31 economic-dev­elop­ment projects were in process under this previous PC gov­ern­ment. And what did the NDP gov­ern­ment do? They fired the in­dividual who was running and advancing those pro­grams. So, shame on that gov­ern­ment.

      This is what keeps the economy running. This is what draws money into the pockets of Manitoba–Manitobans. This is what draws money into gov­ern­ment revenue. Higher income produces more gov­ern­ment revenue; it is very simple fiscal and monetary policy, Hon­our­able Speaker.

      Higher income produces more gov­ern­ment revenue for the same tax rate. Also very simple monetary policy, Hon­our­able Speaker. This reduces the need to spend. By contrast, tackling fiscal problems with higher taxes is further adding to the affordability challenges that we are already seeing today. It will continue to drive up costs, it will continue to drive up inflation and people's overall ability to spend into the economy. We've already heard it numer­ous times; this side of the House, we're–focus on the affordability crisis of Manitobans.

      This is why we put $5,500 back into the pockets of Manitobans in last year's budget. But what's the NDP's affordability plan? Two and a half weeks of a temporary fuel-tax holiday? That's not going to help Manitobans into the future. What's going to happen June 1? We saw the gas taxes rise. I drive to work every single day, Hon­our­able Speaker; I'm putting that fuel into my vehicle.

      This is some­thing our previous PC gov­ern­ment understood. After the NDP depleted the rainy-day fund in 2016 under strong economic con­di­tions, the PC gov­ern­ment rebuilt our access to cash flow, because this is what you do in good economic con­di­tions. You don't continue to borrow money, Hon­our­able Speaker, you start to pay down the debt. If I have limited funds in my bank account, do I keep spending? No. I start to pay down that debt.

      This is what Manitobans do; this is what Manitobans expect of our gov­ern­ment. And all we've seen today with this bill is the NDP's proof that they plan to raise taxes, continue borrowing money, cut services and putting it on the backs and shoulders of hard-working Manitobans, Hon­our­able Speaker. Asking Manitobans to provide even more money while they dig deeper into their pockets; not much more money that they can dig for. But this isn't provi­ding the citizens of this province with any sense of security on how this gov­ern­ment manages money.

      The Premier (Mr. Kinew) refused to answer questions about the Province's finances, Hon­our­able Speaker. You know why? It's because he knows, and this gov­ern­ment knows, about what's to come. Maybe Manitobans don't know yet, but we know on this side of the House that Manitobans will soon find out. They'll see those taxes. They'll see those hidden taxes. What did the NDP gov­ern­ment do previously? They increased the PST. What did they do? They put taxes onto haircuts, manicures, pedicures, services, house insurance.

      What else are they going to do? What other taxes are we going to find in, maybe this year's budget, maybe next year's budget, maybe the budget after that, but certainly not the budget after that, because the PCs will be back in power. Hon­our­able Speaker, today they have authorized $10 billion in new borrowing and debt since being elected in October, and the gov­ern­ment is coming forward, and the Minister of Finance (MLA Sala) is coming forward and requiring once again to spend more money on the backs of Manitobans; on the back–

The Speaker: Honour, please.

      When this matter is next before the House, the mem­­ber will have 30 minutes remaining. My mistake–the member will have 24 minutes remaining.

      The hour being 5 o'clock, this House is adjourned and stands adjourned until 10 a.m. tomorrow.


 

 


LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Wednesday, March 13, 2024

CONTENTS


Vol. 29

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

Introduction of Bills

Bill 18–The Community Child Care Standards Amendment Act

Altomare  699

Bill 19–The Drivers and Vehicles Amendment Act

Wiebe  699

Bill 20–The Highway Traffic Amendment Act

Wiebe  699

Bill 21–The Public Schools Amendment Act

Altomare  700

Members' Statements

Nepali Cultural Society of Manitoba

Chen  700

Kate Cameron

Narth  701

Burma Bushie–Rocky Mountain Woman

Bushie  701

Canadian Border Services Agency

Piwniuk  702

Hoffman's Fine Foods

Lamoureux  702

Oral Questions

Provincial Finances

Ewasko  703

Kinew   703

Provincial Taxes

Khan  704

Kinew   704

Upcoming Carbon Tax Increase

Khan  704

Kinew   704

Provincial Taxes

Khan  705

Kinew   705

STARS Air Ambulance

Guenter 705

Naylor 705

Manitoba Provincial Nominee Program

Byram   706

Marcelino  706

Internationally Educated Health-Care Workers

Cook  707

Asagwara  707

STARS Air Ambulance Services

Johnson  708

Naylor 708

Asagwara  708

Manitoba Provincial Nominee Program

Lamoureux  709

Marcelino  709

Health Care and Applied Sciences

Lamoureux  709

Marcelino  709

Skilled Immigrant Workers

Lamoureux  710

Marcelino  710

Violent and Repeat Offenders

Oxenham   710

Wiebe  710

Federal International Student Cap

Perchotte  710

Cable  711

Petitions

Hearing Aids

Lamoureux  711

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Messages

Sala  712

Committee of Supply

Interim Supply

Khan  713

Sala  713

Committee Report

Blashko  719

Interim Supply Motion

Sala  719

Introduction of Bills

Bill 25–The Interim Appropriation Act, 2024

Sala  720

Second Readings

Bill 25–The Interim Appropriation Act, 2024

Sala  720

Questions

Khan  721

Sala  721

Piwniuk  722

Guenter 722

Interim Supply Motion

(Continued)

Sala  725

Second Readings

(Continued)

Bill 25–The Interim Appropriation Act, 2024

(Continued)

Debate

Khan  725

Guenter 731

Stone  736